Unequal Chest Protector

[Jocko]

It seems the R&D guys would use accelerometers to show the deceleration of the impact from mph to psi. That is definitive information that would be a huge selling point. I bet they did, and the force reduction ratio wasn't on par with their claims, so they don't release the information. SportsScience is gonna get an email asking them to do just that. I'll let you know if I get a response.

I agree. The silence speaks volumes. If it was the be-all-end-all CP greatest thing in baseball since the slider, we'd get tired of reading all the praise and they would be backordered for months.

I fully expect an announcement from TW sometime in the future that their CP is out of R&D concept mode and being field tested.

[Jocko]

Email sent to Dr. Cynthia Bir, Professor of Biomedical Engineering at Wayne State University. She is the lead engineer of the SportScience series.

Dr. Bir,

A company called Unequal Technologies and Jim Evans have developed and released a new umpire chest protector. It claims to reduce the impact felt by an errant ball, offering more protection at a fraction of the size of existing industry standard equipment, at a cost of >$100 of the current top of the line umpire chest protector. There have been no difinitive tests or demonstrations. I was wondering if this is something ESPN and SportScience would be interested in testing.

Thank you for your time.

Thanks, Gregg Trout #78

[D62 blue]

If anyone is watching ESPN NFL game day , several minutes ago there was a short segment focusing on Michael Vick's rib issue , and how they (eagles ) will deal with this throughout the season. the protective vest he will wear today was being displayed on T V , and indeed is the un equal product ! Not sure if the vest is exactly the same design as the CP , but does contain the same materials in some form or another . I wonder how many other NFL players this season , or in the upcoming NHL season , players will be wearing some type of gear from this company ?

[D62 blue]

BTW when i said i can feel the "punch" , i wasn't implying that it was hurting me , but yes i can feel it . I have been have my 15 yr old son punch me (im sure he enjoys this) , in different spots on the CP . I can definitely feel the hits , again it isn't hurting but ......... ?

I agree with this. Guys were punching me today and yes I can feel it, but it wasn't like it was hurting me.

just to be objective , and i posted this earlier the other month . several years (seasons) ago , when i first wore my new Douglas 15" , i was drilled by a pitch that a catcher did not catch . that pitch was probably at 80 mph (+/-) by a 15 yr old , and i did feel that impact . I was stunned and it took me a couple minutes to walk it off and compose myself to continue . I sustained a very small bruise , about the size of half dollar . Now is the Douglas defective ? or did the equipment perform as designed ? All protective equipment regardless of price , and design will not prevent ALL injury . Almost any equip. carries a disclaimer , that states that it will not prevent all injuries . IMHO the Douglas did its job , i finished the game and walked off the filed under my own power and went on with my regular life and job . versus leaving the game (not finishing) and going to an ER for x rays or worse being carried off by paramedics and with some other medical issue , and maybe losing time from work ? A ballistic vest isn't bullet proof either , but "resistant ", get shot and probably have at worst a very bad bruise or severe contusion maybe a broken rib . Did the vest perform as designed ? did you "feel" it ? yes . did it knock you on you're a#% ? maybe . But it kept you alive , and you still walked away in most situations , get shot with a very high caliber at too close a range and maybe the vest wont save you're life ? I have taken other shots from my Douglas since, as well as my allstar CPU 4000 that i "felt" , with no noticeable injury either . Did the equip fail ? I dont think so . last night at the beginning of the tiger V angels gm , PU took a foul ball point blank square to the mask from a Verlander 95+ pitch . he had to leave the game , pretty scary when you watch in slow mo . Did his mask/pads fail ? did he "feel" it ? absolutely ! I'm sure he had a concussion , at the very least . excepting you're equipment to perform so that you dont "feel a thing" , seems un-realistic IMHO . minimizing injury down to a small bruise or less seems more realistic from you equipment . If the majority of the time you barely "feel a thing" . i think you're way ahead of the game .

my 2cents

[GerryB]

I started in the dark days, and the old timers then used to say "equipment isn't there to keep you from hurting, its there to keep you from going to the hospital". Ha! And I was wearing one of those useless Rawlings CPs with the shoulder cups riveted on.

[kylejt]

I just want to know how it compares to a hardshell. More specifically, my platinum.

Protection is always going to be tradeoff. If we didn't want to take any risk, we'd stay in bed. Don't want to take a chest shot, use a balloon. Me, I'm looking for the best inside protector. If it's lighter and cooler, so much the better.

Still standing by for that comparison.

[johnmets32]

Hello,

I have been in contact with Jason from ABUA regarding the CP. The majority of our discussions transcribed prior to receiving the CP. Below is a clip from one of Jason's email.

"The product works, and has protected many athletes, including Tony Romo, and the entire Boston Bruins. NFL and NHL teams are lining up to get the protection. If the stuff doesn't work, there wouldn't be the demand for it within every professional and/or college organizations. We have true independent laboratory testing which backs up the fact that the protection is the best out there."

For what its worth, I have used the CP twice, however both had below average pitching for 12U. I was hit by a foul ball and felt no pain.

JB

[kylejt]

But how does it compare to a hardshell?

Remember all the scientific numbers that were spewed on us with the Davishield? How'd that work out for them? Remember the revolutionary new Honig's rig? How's that thing selling?

We have standards in place, that at some point need to be compared to, side by side.

I got hit in the chest yesterday wearing a Champion P210. All I felt was a little compression over my sternum. But that's worthless information. I've tested that thing by getting beat on by a ball on the end of a golf shaft. It doesn't even come close to my WV. It's good, but not that good.

I can wear something for a whole season, but take any good shots to it.

Saleman's testimonials are, well, interesting. Lab testing is great. But real world thumping is what we're looking for. They had a chance with that hokey Evan video, and failed. So I can only draw conclusions from a glancing blow nailing a happy footed, non-confident tester, who yelps after he gets drilled. Me, I'll stick with that video of Joe West, getting an MLB foul ball squarely to the chest, and not flinching a bit.

Still waiting for someone to actually test this thing.

p.s. I'm the guy who bought the Davishield first, tested it the same day, and told all of you it was sub standard. Plus, I got stuck with it, since they wouldn't take it back. So I saved a lot of you muggs a lot of $. BTW, you're welcome.

[johnmets32]

Kyle

But how does it compare to a hardshell?

Remember all the scientific numbers that were spewed on us with the Davishield? How'd that work out for them? Remember the revolutionary new Honig's rig? How's that thing selling?

We have standards in place, that at some point need to be compared to, side by side.

I got hit in the chest yesterday wearing a Champion P210. All I felt was a little compression over my sternum. But that's worthless information. I've tested that thing by getting beat on by a ball on the end of a golf shaft. It doesn't even come close to my WV. It's good, but not that good.

I can wear something for a whole season, but take any good shots to it.

Saleman's testimonials are, well, interesting. Lab testing is great. But real world thumping is what we're looking for. They had a chance with that hokey Evan video, and failed. So I can only draw conclusions from a glancing blow nailing a happy footed, non-confident tester, who yelps after he gets drilled. Me, I'll stick with that video of Joe West, getting an MLB foul ball squarely to the chest, and not flinching a bit.

Still waiting for someone to actually test this thing.

p.s. I'm the guy who bought the Davishield first, tested it the same day, and told all of you it was sub standard. Plus, I got stuck with it, since they wouldn't take it back. So I saved a lot of you muggs a lot of $. BTW, you're welcome.

I completely understand, and agree. Put it this way - If I had to call a varsity HS game where the kids throw 80+ tomorrow, I would wear my WVP. I am hoping to build confidence over time.

[Jocko]

answer to my email

Gregg,

I'm not sure this is something ESPN or the show would test. The show's segments are chosen by the producers and product testing is not something that is part of the show's mission. If you are interested in having the product evaluated, we would be able to do fee-for-service testing at Wayne State in the Sports Injury Biomechanics lab.

If you are interested in having testing conducted, please contact my manager of the sports lab, Jason Greb, at 313-577-8322.

Warm regards, Cindy

[Recontra]

Sorry to call a foul, because I truly appreciate this forum, the members and contibutors, and I've certainly learned a ton in the short couple of months that I've been a member. But I kind of feel compelled to call a foul on us. I don't know Jim Evans, but I know of him, and I know first hand that he's done a lot for amateur, youth, and even volunteer umpires. He's been criticized on this thread for being a for profit business person, as if there's something circumspect or presumptively un-American about that. If I could make a living umpiring (or playing golf), I'd be doing it right now in a heartbeat. I applaud those of us who are fortunate enough to support our families doing something we love (me, I sue people for a living--I love it--although I'd rather be making a living at Augusta or behind the dish at Safeco Field). I will say that I've greatly benefitted from Mr. Evans permitting Little League to use some of his copyrighted instructional materials at no cost for training volunteer umpires. And JasonK at Force3, what can I say? He's responded to every single one of my email inquiries--and it looks like he's done the same to virtually everyone else who has contacted him. They both deserve some slack, and (I'm sorry) considerable and deferential respect. "Sports Science?" I recall watching the designer, developer, and marketer of the Nutty Buddy stand in front of a 90 mph fast ball on Sports Science. I immediately bought one. Great product. If Mr. Evans or JasonK or anyone else associated with this new chest protector want to go on Sports Science, let them. But that's their call. Not mine. It's also not my place to try to "sic" the Consumer Protection Agency or Department of Justice upon them. This chest protector was inititially offered at a discount for sale to amateur umpires throught the ABUA website, I presume with the hopes of not only establishing a grass roots marketing platform to hopefully eventually turn a profit (hot dogs and apple pie, Baby!), but I also presume to get some initial real world feedback from the kind of discerning and thoughtful end-line consumers who take the time to participate on umpire forums. Cost? Plastic can be had anywhere for pennies. Kevlar and Unequal Technologies Kevlar in particular cannot. I have a strong suspicion that the response was greater than even they anticipated--and then they ran into some production problems and delays. Do I hope and anticipate that Mid-West Umpire will evaluate the chest protector in its blog (which I can't seem to log onto anymore) or as part of the annual UMPY process? You bet. Do any of them owe it to me? No. If you don't want to run the risk of purchasing a first version of this new product before it's been proven to be the greatest thing since canned beer, then don't. It's fine to be be cautiously optimistic or even cautiously pessimistic. Just not disrespectful. I believe some of us have been a little disrespectful. If a manager, player, or coach (by innuendo and off hand comment) criticized or disrespected an umpire the way Jim Evans and Force3 have been criticized in this thread, I bet most of you would say, "That's enough." And if it continued, you'd toss them (and feel a sense of satisfaction doing it). Just my 2 pennies for this Monday. I bought one. It's on the way. If it doesn't turn out to be what I hoped for, I'll certainly be disappointed. I look at it as a risk I took, and if I lose money, I'll figure it's just partial payback for all the cool videos and drills I was able to enjoy for a week in San Bernardino.

[scrounge]

yeeks, be careful getting down from that soapbox

[Umpire in Chief]

@RecontraBacan:

I don't think anybody has taken exception to the profit issue. God bless anybody who can build the better mousetrap. I, and many others from what I read, want this to be the best thing since sliced bread. If this is the best CP ever it will force Wilson (who IMO has become complacent - maybe even neglectful in moving forward in protective gear for umpires), All-Star, and any number of other competitors to step it up and remain competitive. And in that we all will win - God bless free market economics.

I think the big question is where are these reviews. Some people have had it for several weeks and we hear nothing.

I think most of the criticism comes from the initial videos, both with Evans and from Unequal; the delivery and now (and completely beyond Evans's control) the feedback.

The Unequal Chest Protector is the most highly anticipated umpiring product in my memory, and I think that level of anticipation and eagerness for the umpiring community to be assured it is not another Schutt Air Flex or Wilson DavisShield is well warranted.

[Thunderheads]

let's go with the videos, ...geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeezzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Recontra]

You're of course, right. I guess I shouldn't have put so much extra sugar on my second bowl of Wheaties this morning.

[Jocko]

Contra, some scientific research would be in order. I would love an accelerometer comparison of the "big 4" (platinum, gold, system7, Unequal) CPs. All I was doing was asking if SS would test it the way they did the nutty buddy. Now THAT's how it's done. Jimmy's video is comical by comparison. Word of mouth is great, but numbers don't lie. Remember the egg in the toe box of the plate shoes? Maybe an egg behind the CP? What's wrong with asking for some research? I hoped SS would do it. They have unlimited resources and a worldwide broadcast network. "Sic?" Nah. Request? Absolutely. Never know until you ask. I have spoken with Jim on the phone (anyone want his cell number, I got it) and he seems like a very nice guy. He's certainly knowledgable. His video left me with a big : feeling.

[moblue]

I had the chance to test out the Unequal this weekend with kcfan. He and I were working ballgames and didn't get the memo that the first two games of the day were rained out. We used part of the time to video a test of the Unequal compared to the All-Star System 7. Kcfan has the video and will be posting them sometime soon. I will say that my overall conclusion was that the System 7 was by far superior to the Unequal. I would not personally use the Unequal for anything above 10U. Hopefully the videos get posted soon so you can see them and maybe make a better decision for yourself on how they perform.

[Thunderheads]

I had the chance to test out the Unequal this weekend with kcfan. He and I were working ballgames and didn't get the memo that the first two games of the day were rained out. We used part of the time to video a test of the Unequal compared to the All-Star System 7. Kcfan has the video and will be posting them sometime soon. I will say that my overall conclusion was that the System 7 was by far superior to the Unequal. I would not personally use the Unequal for anything above 10U. Hopefully the videos get posted soon so you can see them and maybe make a better decision for yourself on how they perform.

THAT'S what I'm talkin' about !!!! Right there!!! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ :nod:

[JaxRolo]

I had the chance to test out the Unequal this weekend with kcfan. He and I were working ballgames and didn't get the memo that the first two games of the day were rained out. We used part of the time to video a test of the Unequal compared to the All-Star System 7. Kcfan has the video and will be posting them sometime soon. I will say that my overall conclusion was that the System 7 was by far superior to the Unequal. I would not personally use the Unequal for anything above 10U. Hopefully the videos get posted soon so you can see them and maybe make a better decision for yourself on how they perform.

WOW

[BRUMP]

I would not personally use the Unequal for anything above 10u.

18 pages of hype and now this. That's a kick to the nuggets.

[CS-Blue]

Well, I thought I was going to beat everyone to the punch, but it looks like moblue beat me to it. While I won't go as far as to say that I wouldn't wear it above 10U, I will say that it isn't a 90 mph CP. Especially for the type of people who are on this site.

Would I wear it in a varsity game? Yes. But I obviously have a higher pain threshold than many of you do. I have taken 80mph+ shots square to the chest in a diamond iX3 and not felt anything. I replaced that one with a Champion 210. The only reason I bought a Champion 210 was because I caught one in the collar bone once in the iX3 and it worried me.

After comparing the Unequal to the Champion, I will say I felt less with the Champion (if anything). I did "feel" it with the Unequal but it didn't hurt. So with the lightweight, low-profile design of the unequal, it is staying in my bag for further testing. I give it a pass but it is far from the likes of the WV CPs or even the Champion for pure feel-nothing protection.

[CS-Blue]

BY the way, I tested with a baseball on a golf club shaft. I first allowed my wife to hit me (the highlight of her year) then a male friend of mine to take some real swings. No bruises or red marks with either the Champion or Unequal. The unequal felt like getting snapped with a rubber band right on the skin. Quick sting and then nothing.

[bam]

Hey Recontra - what would you say if someone came to you and wanted to sue them for some sort of financial malfeasance? You'd look pretty darn hard at the circumstances (and their cash, no doubt), wouldn't you?

[Jocko]

malfeasance

Wow. You been reading in the bathroom again?

[Jocko]

BY the way, I tested with a baseball on a golf club shaft. I first allowed my wife to hit me (the highlight of her year) then a male friend of mine to take some real swings. No bruises or red marks with either the Champion or Unequal. The unequal felt like getting snapped with a rubber band right on the skin. Quick sting and then nothing.

sting? It actually stings? No wonder Jimmy hopped around hollering like that.Wow.

I don't agree with the "felt nothing" crowd. I have felt every shot, they just don't hurt. Sting versus zero pain or discomfort = fail in my book.