Different spoken language

[Guest Moonstriker]

Hello, thanks for letting me ask a question.  Youth League rules.  One team in our league is fluent in Spanish and English, the others speak only English.  Does the Spanish-speaking team have an unfair advantage if they communicate with their coaches and each other in Spanish, since they can hear everything their opponents say, but their opponents can't understand the Spanish-speaking players?  If so, how can English-only speech be enforced without sounding racist?   

[Kevin_K]

Since language is not race based, it can't be racist behavior. The adjective you might use that's a better fit is xenophobic since most Americans choose to communicate in one language and their language of choice is English.

And to answer your question, there is no way of not looking xenophobic (or ignorant) when demanding that people speak only one language. The same teams may also have an advantage because their players are better or their coaches are more effective in teaching the game. Should those teams use fewer players or forget what they learned because their opponents are fat, awkward, and have awful fundamentals? If being able to know what your opponents are communicating, the use of signals would be prohibited by rule. It is not and there are some organizations that frown upon opponents trying to steal those secretive communications.

Almost every state in the country requires that students take language courses other than English and almost every person graduating American schools leave being somewhat fluent in only their native tongue. Most American families place no value on continuing a multilingual heritage. Hence, if one group has an advantage because they are multilingual they should use it to the fullest. If those who do not understand the chosen language are uncomfortable in their ignorance there are ways to rectify the situation that have nothing to do with banning languages other than English.

My .02. YMMV

 

[noumpere]

1 hour ago, Guest Moonstriker said:

Does the Spanish-speaking team have an unfair advantage

Does the team have an advantage?  Probably.

 

Is it unfair?  No.

[JonnyCat]

Hire a translator as a bench coach.

[stevis]

What are signs, really, but an attempt to communicate without the other team knowing?

To answer your last question, it can't. 

[834k3r]

I'm pretty sure I watched a game where the Japanese team in the LLWS was speaking Japanese during the televised game.

Anyone here have Williamsport LLWS experience? How are the language differences handled there? Is everyone required to speak English during games?

[Thunderheads]

No rules on what language a team can use, so no, you can't 'enforce' it.  And, I don't really see a disadvantage anywhere

[umpstu]

I've lived and umpired in SoCal since 1995 and can't remember working a game without a foreign language.  JonnyCat experiences the same at every one of his games. I also live in a bilingual household, Dutch, so hearing another language doesn't bother me. More than likely the team you are playing feel more comfortable speaking Spanish to each other and are not using it as a ways to get over.

[Guest Moonstriker]

Thanks, everyone, lots of great answers - and so fast!  

50 minutes ago, umpstu said:

 More than likely the team you are playing feel more comfortable speaking Spanish to each other and are not using it as a ways to get over.

I wish I could believe that in our case, but I do think that the non-English language is indeed being used as a type of code, since the players are comfortable with speaking English, but the coach insists on their use of Spanish while playing.

I'll ignore it for now, but will have to raise the issue once again if I have another complaint from an opposing coach.

 

[Rich Ives]

33 minutes ago, Guest Moonstriker said:

Thanks, everyone, lots of great answers - and so fast!  

I wish I could believe that in our case, but I do think that the non-English language is indeed being used as a type of code, since the players are comfortable with speaking English, but the coach insists on their use of Spanish while playing.

I'll ignore it for now, but will have to raise the issue once again if I have another complaint from an opposing coach.

 

Just tell the coach to go sit down. His choice of dugout or parking lot.

[JonnyCat]

2 hours ago, 834k3r said:

Anyone here have Williamsport LLWS experience? How are the language differences handled there? Is everyone required to speak English during games?

From what I understand, LL provides translators or the team brings their own.

[The Man in Blue]

4 hours ago, Guest Moonstriker said:

Thanks, everyone, lots of great answers - and so fast!  

I wish I could believe that in our case, but I do think that the non-English language is indeed being used as a type of code, since the players are comfortable with speaking English, but the coach insists on their use of Spanish while playing.

I'll ignore it for now, but will have to raise the issue once again if I have another complaint from an opposing coach.

 

 

Now, THAT is where you need a translator.  Somebody who can explain the actual rules in coach-speak.

Are you going to require coaches to only use words of two syllables or less, just in case you have some really uneducated coaches?  May I suggest using this as a training tool:

[Velho]

Agreed with school of thought that this is legal.

The coach, however, sounds like an asshat and is doing a disservice to his kids. Simply saying "steal", etc. as a work around is not preparing these kids for higher level ball (or playing another spanish speaking team even). It's similar to those 10U coaches that run the bases with abandon because the other team can't throw-catch consistently. When they get to 12U that can make a throw ahead of the runner those kids will be dead to rights - and that coach will be screaming at them I bet, lol.

[MadMax]

On 1/9/2023 at 1:32 PM, Guest Moonstriker said:

I'll ignore it for now...

You'll have to. 

On 1/9/2023 at 1:32 PM, Guest Moonstriker said:

but will have to raise the issue once again if I have another complaint from an opposing coach.

Tough cookies, you can't. There's no issue to be raised, short of this is the way games  – across a multitude of sports – are played. 

Back in my 20's, I played for a semi-pro soccer league, and our club – The Continentals – was a mixture of Anglophones, Hispanophones, and Francophones (2 French-Canadians). We had no Brasilians on our club (they had their own exclusive club). When we played the Brazilians, were our Francophones prohibited from shouting line-calls and directives in French, because our Lusophonic opponents didn't understand French? Of course not. How about when we played the Griffons of Serbia, don't you think that they had a decided advantage over all of us because they spoke Serbian? 

What would you do if the one of the teams was Deaf / Hearing Impaired? Would you mandate that all signals have to be given audibly? That they couldn't use ASL to give signals, because the other team doesn't know it? 

This isn't a windmill to tilt at; that is to say, this isn't an issue that warrants any sort of official oversight. 

[Velho]

May be a good time to learn some Spanish. Especially certain key words that would  be an addressable issue.  

[BigBlue4u]

On 1/9/2023 at 11:32 AM, Guest Moonstriker said:

I wish I could believe that in our case, but I do think that the non-English language is indeed being used as a type of code, since the players are comfortable with speaking English, but the coach insists on their use of Spanish while playing.

I'll ignore it for now, but will have to raise the issue once again if I have another complaint from an opposing coach.

Well, here's a question:   What possible advantage can a team achieve by using a language code?  And, what would the coach complain about?  And, where does it say an umpire can dictate what language (or code) a team can use?  

[beerguy55]

Why is talking in another language, even to hide information, a problem at all? In baseball, where signals are an inherent part of the game in communicating with each other...if you can do hand signals as a third base coach to batter/base runners, bench coach to catcher, or a catcher to pitcher, or use arm bands with alphanumeric play calls, why couldn't you speak in a foreign language, or pig latin, or any other kind of code to hide your intentions from the other team??

The practical reason for enforcing a language is to ensure a standard is in place in communicating with the umpire...and that's the only time it should matter...talk with your teammates in Morse Code if you want.

The only other reason is to ensure there is no collusion, especially between a coach and an official...coaches and umpires need to be able to talk with each other, and know what is being said to each other, if for no other reason to remove the appearance of impropriety.  So, standardize on a language for official communication, and provide interpreters where necessary.  For communication within the team, teach your players Klingon if you want.

 

On 1/8/2023 at 5:37 AM, Guest Moonstriker said:

If so, how can English-only speech be enforced without sounding racist?   

 

To this last question - virtually all poker rooms in Canada (outside Quebec) and the US have an "English only" rule, to address those collusion concerns...I even played poker in a casino in Lima, Peru where this was the case.   English only is common around the world...and where it's not, it's still limited.  In Macau, for example, it's Cantonese, Mandarin and English only...no French, German, Spanish, etc.

No one bats an eye about it.   It's not racist, xenophobic or prejudiced...it's simply practical.  It ensures the dealer, if not most players, knows everything being said at the table.

[Velho]

2 minutes ago, beerguy55 said:

Why is talking in another language, even to hide information, a problem at all? In baseball, where signals are an inherent part of the game in communicating with each other...if you can do hand signals as a third base coach to batter/base runners, bench coach to catcher, or a catcher to pitcher, or use arm bands with alphanumeric play calls, why couldn't you speak in a foreign language, or pig latin, or any other kind of code to hide your intentions from the other team??

Fixed. That SHOULD be banned. 😂

[834k3r]

19 hours ago, Velho said:

Fixed. That SHOULD be banned. 😂

I disagree--let coaches sound like idiots if they want.🤣

[Aging_Arbiter]

https://www.rosettastone.com/

 

[Guest Moonstriker]

Okay, okay, you've all had your fun sniping at me.  I get it, it's legal, just saying you should appreciate my giving you folks the opportunity for some fun at my expense.

This'll be my last post, and I won't be back, so you can stop now.

🤢🤢🤢...🤮

 

[JonnyCat]

2 hours ago, Guest Moonstriker said:

Okay, okay, you've all had your fun sniping at me.  I get it, it's legal, just saying you should appreciate my giving you folks the opportunity for some fun at my expense.

This'll be my last post, and I won't be back, so you can stop now.

🤢🤢🤢...🤮

 

That's too bad you won't be back. Yes, we did have fun. So thank you for that.

But next time, just ask a question without sounding so ignorant. Really, if you had worded your question differently, we would have gladly offered our insight without snark. And did you really think that speaking another language was somehow prohibited in the rule-book? Oh by the way, the rule-book for whatever league you are coaching in is not some secret document given only to umpires. It's readily available printed in English for anyone to purchase. Sometimes it's even free.

I know, I know, he probably won't read this, but at least it ups my post count, and I couldn't resist! 

[BLWizzRanger]

Can you judge a coach vice a umpire by the thickness of their skin?

[The Man in Blue]

2 hours ago, BLWizzRanger said:

Can you judge a coach vice a umpire by the thickness of their skin?

 

Started drinking a little early, @BLWizzRanger?  Gotta' love the off-season.  😉😁

[The Man in Blue]

10 hours ago, JonnyCat said:

Oh by the way, the rule-book for whatever league you are coaching in is not some secret document given only to umpires. It's readily available printed in English AND OTHER LANGUAGES! for anyone to purchase. Sometimes it's even free.

I know, I know, he probably won't read this, but at least it ups my post count, and I couldn't resist! 

 

Just saying.  

[beerguy55]

13 hours ago, Guest Moonstriker said:

Okay, okay, you've all had your fun sniping at me.  I get it, it's legal, just saying you should appreciate my giving you folks the opportunity for some fun at my expense.

This'll be my last post, and I won't be back, so you can stop now.

🤢🤢🤢...🤮

 

Someone's sensitive...there's no sniping above, and nothing at his expense.  Legit responses and questions as far as I can see.  I can't even fathom why someone would read the above and find their way to making this response.