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beerguy55 last won the day on June 27

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  1. If he didn't tag up it's not legally scored. If he returns he can be passed. If he goes straight to the dugout it can be appealed. It doesn't become a legal score until either the runner corrects his error and retouches home, or the defense fails to appeal. Unless he did tag up. We know the OP says he didn't, and it's obvious R3 believes he didn't. But that's a determination at the sole discretion of the umpire(s). And it would have to be determined by the umpire at the point R2 passes R3 whether or not a pass actually occurred, or if R3 was a legally scored runner. If he failed to tag up this is a triple play. If he did tag up the run scores, there is no abandonment, and R2 is not out for passing and his run scores too.
  2. In order to conduct a do-over someone must first properly declare "No fair!".
  3. As an example - Tropicana field allows for a ball that hits the upper catwalk to still be caught for an out, which contravenes the textbook definition of a catch, which requires a ball to be "in flight" (or perhaps just conflicts with the definition of "in flight")...either way, MLB approved it so the ground rule overrides the rule book.
  4. Well, besides the fact that you can find hundreds of video clips of MLB HR's that bounced off the wall as your anecdotal and empirical evidence... If you followed the letter of the rule it would be a double because it did not go over the fence "in flight". That's baseball fundamentalism. By interpretation/ruling/precedent a ball that hits the top of the fence does not impact its "in flight" status for the purposes of a home run (it does for a catch). If it hits the facing of the fence it can't become a home run.
  5. I challenge you to show anyone where I said anything like that. My stance is with ONE rule...a "rule" that has nothing to do with the game and is on par with the OBR rule prohibiting fraternization. It's an administrative directive and has nothing to do with the play of the game, and has nothing to do with anyone's safety - in fact, it contradicts any notion of safety. That it hasn't been changed is nothing more than bureaucratic nonsense. So, yes, the enforcement of a rule that is, for lack of a better word, stupid, a rule that does not improve or impact the play of the game in any way, and in fact puts children in danger, simply because it is a rule, is indeed a power trip. I commend you with showing some common sense on those really small fields, under 20 feet, but I've coached and played on a LOT of fields, and I don't recall being on a single softball field (that wasn't also a baseball field) where I'd say that the on deck circles are "far enough" from the batter. Softball fields are small, and unless the softball game is played on a shared or converted baseball field, or a high end stadium, the on deck circles are too close to the batter. The NFHS rule of "30 feet if possible" is ridiculous. Thirty feet is too close. Let the coach protest - no committee will uphold the protest because it doesn't impact the game. Let the coach report you - you have inept umpires working games every night in every organization - they're not going to fire or restrict or demote an otherwise competent (or quality) umpire who won't enforce an archaic rule. You've shown you're willing to make a ground rule when YOU think it's appropriate. If you have both coaches wanting to do it why wouldn't you let them in any sized park? Why inject yourself to determine whether or not they can based on your standard? There's enforcing the rules, and then there's doing what's right.
  6. I started 8th grade at age 12, ended age 13. I graduated high school at 17.
  7. I'm frankly shocked Fed hasn't changed this rule, with their typical approach of erring on the side of safety. Looks like NCAA hasn't either. I gotta admit - in softball, especially in a typical softball diamond, where the ODB is rarely more than 30 feet away (and usually more like 20 feet away) from the batter, I immediately hate any umpire that disallows this - even if it is a supposedly large field. This is a power trip over riding common sense - I don't care what the rule says. Let the ODB go behind the batter...ensure they aren't blocking the coach from giving signals to the catcher and be done with it - they're going over there not to cause havoc with the coach, they're going over there to protect themselves. You were worried about the head coach, who was behind the batter, getting hit, and not worried about the ODB in front of the batter? It's a stupid rule that has no bearing on the game. If both coaches agree, then ignore the stupid rule. Hell, if one of the coaches complains, treat it like a stupid rule and let coaches complain that you're not enforcing a stupid rule. Perhaps if other umpires ignore a stupid rule it becomes an unenforceable rule, and maybe they'll make it official. You're not one of those umpires who calls a "lead off" when R1 is touching only the orange bag, are you? I get it - you want to follow everything to the letter. At some point there has to be common sense and an understanding of spirit vs letter of law. Even the International Official Rules (ie. Worlds, Pan Am games, Olympics, etc) have changed this rule to allow the batter to use either on-deck circle to remain behind the batter. So, anyone who says "they" changed the rule isn't "wrong". It's a backwards scenario where the pros are actually safer than the amateurs. Sec. 1.THE ON-DECK BATTER. The on-deck batter a. At the start of an inning, is the lead-off batter, who must remain in his on-deck circle until called to the batter’s box. b. Once an inning has started, is the offensive player who in the batting line-up is the next player to enter the batter’s box. c. May take a position within either on-deck circle so he is behind the batter and not on the batter’s open side. d. May loosen up with no more than two official softball bats, an approved warm-up bat, or a combination not to exceed two. NOTE: A bat with which the On-Deck Batter is loosening up may not have anything attached to it other than an ISF approved bat attachment. EFFECT- Sec. 1d: When using other than a legal bat while loosening up, the illegal equipment must be removed from the game. Continued use of the equipment after removal would subject the player using such equipment to ejection from the game. e. May leave the on-deck circle 1. When he becomes the batter, or 2. To direct runners advancing from third to home plate, or 3. To avoid possible interference on fly ball or thrown ball. f. May not interfere with the defensive player's opportunity to make a play EFFECT - Sec 1f: The ball is dead and if this interference is 1. With a defensive fielder’s attempt to retire a runner, (a) The runner closest to home plate at the time of the interference shall be called out, and (b) Other runners are returned to the last base held at the time of the interference, unless forced because the batter became a runner. 2. With a defensive fielder attempting to catch a fly ball, or with a fly ball that a fielder is attempting to catch, (a) The batter-runner shall be called out, and (b) Runners are returned to the base held at the time of the pitch.
  8. They can cause confusion, and some systems outsmart themselves and implement rules that undo any safety aspect. But in principle, if you say F3 MUST touch white and B/R MUST touch orange that is inherently a significantly safer system. You're doubling the real estate with which both defender and runner have to work. The problems come in the exceptions, and no safety bag will eliminate 100% of collisions, as you are still dealing with humans. But at the younger ages where kids typically have less control of their bodies, having the runner as far away from the fielder as possible is always better. At HS and older it should not be necessary. However, at any kind of casual adult league, I say "why not?"
  9. Typically grades 5-8 are 9-12 years old. Depends where you are on what is middle school - it can conceivably entail any part of grades 5-9, depending on whether there's a separation from junior high.
  10. They need to be really sure on what "it doesn't happen TO you" means if you want to win a protest. Sure, it seems the protesting team thinks they had an out taken away from them - and if their league specifically has this provision they'd be right. However, that kind of rule can have a lot of provisions, including judgment and warnings, and may not be mandatory - ie. the ump MAY call the batter out, or MAY eject him, or MAY do both, or MAY do neither. The ump ejected the player...he didn't call him out. The team assumed the ejection was an out. But, outside a local league rule mandating the batter be out for throwing the bat, the end result of correcting the ruling will be the other team getting their home run back. So, again, be careful on what you don't want to happen TO you. Protest it in the future if you get your home run taken away.
  11. So, you're going to protest a game where the other team had a home run taken away from them?!?!?! The wrong team is protesting. If you "win" this protest it will be to the other team's favor. In what universe is an ejection an out?
  12. I made the assumption it was LL 60' at that age group, just like the kids we all watched on TV last week. (I was 12 years old when I started 8th grade) Yeah, 90' the kids will do in about six. In the end, doesn't matter if the bases are 90' or 250'...two seconds is still a good 25-30 feet, and still 8 to 10 steps.
  13. First - change two seconds to two STEPS. I guarantee you it wasn't two seconds as ten-twelve year olds typically get from home to first in under four seconds - the jackrabbits will come in around well under 3.5...even if it's pushing five seconds (real fat kid) you're basically saying that the batter was barely half way to first when F3 caught the ball, and the F3 just stood on the base and waited to get hit by the batter/runner. They're taking 8-10 steps in two seconds. So, don't overstate your case. When you say "retaliatory" - retaliatory for what. If there is context to something that happened before it could be factor...or it could also create a bias or expectation...often times what looks like a push is really the runner bracing himself for an unexpected impact. By starting with "problem hitter" sounds to me like you have a preconception that may be influencing your recollection of events. It doesn't really matter when the first baseman caught the ball...it only matters what happened in the step or two before impact...did the B/R move into F3...or did F3 unexpectedly step back into the path? Those would help to determine intent. This is textbook htbt. And yes, the runner SHOULD be running through the base, even if out by five steps.
  14. First - it works both ways - I've worked with umpires that don't give anything on the edges, forcing pitchers to come across the plate, opening the game up to a slugfest, and just tiring your pitchers out. I teach my kids to to be able to hit anything they want to. I teach them to look for their pitch and hit it. I teach them that that strike zone is simply a guide for the umpire, not the batter. I teach them to manage their own zone, and understand their strengths and weakness, and to expand their zone with each strike. I teach them that pitchers are creatures of habit and to use that to your advantage. I've coached teams into our National Championships and have no less than a dozen players I coached currently playing on scholarships in NCAA and NAIA schools. They're there 'cause they can hit, not 'cause they play second base well. I hope I have SOME credibility in this area. Without worrying about technique at all I can significantly increase a team's average, OBP, slugging and run production just by changing their approach at the plate. The right technique can be taught for consistency and power six inches off the plate either side. And I've seen both hit for extra bases many many times. Good pitchers live on the black. Good hitters adjust to that. Anybody can hit a meatball out of the park. If you can't hit a pitch that is three inches off the outside corner, you can't hit.
  15. beerguy55

    Fake tag

    It's still considered bush league regardless of legality - you know, one of the many "unwritten" rules these adults whine about.
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