Umpire call a balk like I have never heard

[Guest Scott]

Quick question on one that I have never heard before. I coach a 10U team and a 14U team but this was a new one and I would like the pros to confirm or correct.

Right hand pitcher (bases loaded) takes the rubber, so right foot is on the rubber both hands are at his side, left foot is stationary on the mound, then he comes set without moving his left foot. So he brings his glove and ball hand up from each side of his body and ball hand goes into his glove in front of his chest, he comes to a complete set, no movement what so ever, but the left foot never moves. Then he starts his left leg up and into a "normal" pitching motion and starts to delivers a pitch. But before he can the ump calls a balk and advances the runners. I am not happy and his explanation is that he didn't move his left foot while coming set. Just when you thought you have seen it all, baseball rewards you with something new. 

So is that a condition of coming set or what?

 

Thanks

 

scott

[Thunderheads]

that's not a balk ...

 

what did he do wrong?

 

the 'experts' will chime in soon .....

[Guest Guest]

The umpire claimed that part of the condition of coming set is that the off rubber foot has to go to a new position. A little wrinkle here that I should have mentioned. This particular pitcher has his off rubber foot (his left) slightly back about 6 inches, so it is not parallel with the foot on the rubber. The rulebook requires that the off rubber foot is to be in front of the rubber but does it have to be even with the rubber foot?

 

thanks

 

scott

 

[alex7]

They were making stuff up.

[ALStripes17]

The umpire claimed that part of the condition of coming set is that the off rubber foot has to go to a new position. A little wrinkle here that I should have mentioned. This particular pitcher has his off rubber foot (his left) slightly back about 6 inches, so it is not parallel with the foot on the rubber. The rulebook requires that the off rubber foot is to be in front of the rubber but does it have to be even with the rubber foot?

thanks

scott

Not a balk. Umpire made up a condition of the set position.

Check OBR 8.01(b) for the definition of the set position.

And if an umpire ever tells you he balked bc he "deceived the runner," tell him that's not the definition of a balk in the rule book.

Balk: illegal act by a pitcher with runner(s) on base that entitles said runners to one base.

Gotta break a rule for it to be a balk.

[Thunderheads]

The umpire claimed that part of the condition of coming set is that the off rubber foot has to go to a new position. A little wrinkle here that I should have mentioned. This particular pitcher has his off rubber foot (his left) slightly back about 6 inches, so it is not parallel with the foot on the rubber. The rulebook requires that the off rubber foot is to be in front of the rubber but does it have to be even with the rubber foot?

 

thanks

 

scott

no Scott, it doesn't ......

 

8.05

If there is a runner, or runners, it is a balk when --

(a) The pitcher, while touching his plate, makes any motion naturally associated with his pitch and fails to make such delivery;

Rule 8.05(a) Comment: If a lefthanded or righthanded pitcher swings his free foot past the back edge of the pitchers rubber, he is required to pitch to the batter except to throw to second base on a pick-off-play. (b) The pitcher, while touching his plate, feints a throw to first base and fails to complete the throw;

© The pitcher, while touching his plate, fails to step directly toward a base before throwing to that base;

Rule 8.05© Comment: Requires the pitcher, while touching his plate, to step directly toward a base before throwing to that base. If a pitcher turns or spins off of his free foot without actually stepping or if he turns his body and throws before stepping, it is a balk.

A pitcher is to step directly toward a base before throwing to that base but does not require him to throw (except to first base only) because he steps. It is possible, with runners on first and third, for the pitcher to step toward third and not throw, merely to bluff the runner back to third; then seeing the runner on first start for second, turn and step toward and throw to first base. This is legal. However, if, with runners on first and third, the pitcher, while in contact with the rubber, steps toward third and then immediately and in practically the same motion wheels and throws to first base, it is obviously an attempt to deceive the runner at first base, and in such a move it is practically impossible to step directly toward first base before the throw to first base, and such a move shall be called a balk. Of course, if the pitcher steps off the rubber and then makes such a move, it is not a balk.

(d) The pitcher, while touching his plate, throws, or feints a throw to an unoccupied base, except for the purpose of making a play;

(e) The pitcher makes an illegal pitch;

Rule 8.05(e) Comment: A quick pitch is an illegal pitch. Umpires will judge a quick pitch as one delivered before the batter is reasonably set in the batters box. With runners on base the penalty is a balk; with no runners on base, it is a ball. The quick pitch is dangerous and should not be permitted.

(f) The pitcher delivers the ball to the batter while he is not facing the batter;

(g) The pitcher makes any motion naturally associated with his pitch while he is not touching the pitchers plate;

(h) The pitcher unnecessarily delays the game;

Rule 8.05(h) Comment: Rule 8.05(h) shall not apply when a warning is given pursuant to Rule 8.02© (which prohibits intentional delay of a game by throwing to fielders not in an attempt to put a runner out). If a pitcher is ejected pursuant to Rule 8.02© for continuing to delay the game, the penalty in Rule 8.05(h) shall also apply. Rule 8.04 (which sets a time limit for a pitcher to deliver the ball when the bases are unoccupied) applies only when there are no runners on base.

(i) The pitcher, without having the ball, stands on or astride the pitchers plate or while off the plate, he feints a pitch;

(j) The pitcher, after coming to a legal pitching position, removes one hand from the ball other than in an actual pitch, or in throwing to a base;

(k) The pitcher, while touching his plate, accidentally or intentionally drops the ball;

(l) The pitcher, while giving an intentional base on balls, pitches when the catcher is not in the catchers box;

(m)The pitcher delivers the pitch from Set Position without coming to a stop.

PENALTY: The ball is dead, and each runner shall advance one base without liability to be put out, unless the batter reaches first on a hit, an error, a base on balls, a hit batter, or otherwise, and all other runners advance at least one base, in which case the play proceeds without reference to the balk.

APPROVED RULING: In cases where a pitcher balks and throws wild, either to a base or to home plate, a runner or runners may advance beyond the base to which he is entitled at his own risk.

APPROVED RULING: A runner who misses the first base to which he is advancing and who is called out on appeal shall be considered as having advanced one base for the purpose of this rule. Rule 8.05 Comment: Umpires should bear in mind that the purpose of the balk rule is to prevent the pitcher from deliberately deceiving the base runner. If there is doubt in the umpires mind, the intent of the pitcher should govern. However, certain specifics should be borne in mind:

(a) Straddling the pitchers rubber without the ball is to be interpreted as intent to deceive and ruled a balk.

(b) With a runner on first base the pitcher may make a complete turn, without hesitating toward first, and throw to second. This is not to be interpreted as throwing to an unoccupied base.

[NovaScotiaBlue]

I will agree with what has been said so far. I'm thinking this umpire is confusing the moving of the non pivot foot to create separation and distance. That is in relation to throwing to a base. Your pitcher did nothing illegal and it is not a balk.

[Guest Guest]

You guys are awesome. I just wish every little league umpire would be a little more cautious which their new found power and authority.

[ALStripes17]

You guys are awesome. I just wish every little league umpire would be a little more cautious which their new found power and authority.

We are the ones that actually read the rule book and want to perfect our craft.

As I have mentioned in a previous thread, I have partnered with some very intelligent people (M.D. and PhD holders) who openly admitted to me that they dont read the rule books and never have in their umpteen years of calling.

These guys rely solely on playing experience, officiating experience, and hand me down info from other umpires - the last one prob being the most dangerous of the 3 seeing as they get info from other umpires who ... wait for it ... dont read the rule book.

Glad we could help.

[NavyChiefBlue]

Scott, Is your pitcher in the windup or the set position?

[Guest Guest]

Navychiefblue, he is in the stretch, not the windup.

[JaxRolo]

Some Umpires like to make up their own rules.

[maven]

Some Umpires like to make up their own rules.

 

I think it's more likely that he's new and confused. I'd guess that the source of confusion is running together the requirements for coming set with those for stepping and throwing to a base (which is odd, but explains why he might think the foot has to move).

 

And the term you're looking for, coach, is "free foot" (the left one, for a RHP). By rule, when F1 is in the set position, the free foot must start in front of the front edge of the rubber. No rule requires the free foot to move as F1 comes set.

[Jimurray]

You guys are awesome. I just wish every little league umpire would be a little more cautious which their new found power and authority.

Now that you mention LL, you also have the power to protest. Of course you will be faced with the retort that a balk is a judgement call and can't be protested. But in this case it was a missaplication of the balk RULE.

[NavyChiefBlue]

Maven got it before I could. Thanks Maven!

[umpstu]

 

Some Umpires like to make up their own rules.

 

I think it's more likely that he's new and confused. I'd guess that the source of confusion is running together the requirements for coming set with those for stepping and throwing to a base (which is odd, but explains why he might think the foot has to move).

 

And the term you're looking for, coach, is "free foot" (the left one, for a RHP). By rule, when F1 is in the set position, the free foot must start in front of the front edge of the rubber. No rule requires the free foot to move as F1 comes set.

 

Good call, Maven.  In my opinion, this, "You guys are awesome. I just wish every little league umpire would be a little more cautious which their new found power and authority", is pretty chicken sh&$ and for all we know Scott may not be telling the whole story.  Hell, we all know coaches always tell the truth and nothing but the truth. This guy could be a brand new umpire and still learning the rules. No matter how hard you study the rule book, you will not be perfect, especially during the first stages of your career. Plus, I do not like working with a rule book lawyer, especially if he has no feel for the game. So the umpire kicked it.  Not the end of the world. Scott, don't go running out and rub it in his face.  This guy could develop into a fantastic umpire in the future. Give him, or her, a chance to get better.

[MadMax]

Besides this, the bases are loaded... The pitcher may pitch from the windup, complete with any contortion or leg kick (or lack thereof) he chooses provided he stays in contact with the rubber and he is making a pitch (to the plate), not a throw to any other base. With bases loaded, the pitcher can stand atop the rubber with both feet and go into a complete wind-up, including taking a drop step behind the rubber with his free foot to get his wind-up started... but the understanding is that he is locked in and committed to making a legal pitch to the plate.

 

Sometimes, pitchers (especially younger ones) are more effective in the wind-up than the stretch, and I've seen DT coaches allow R2 to get to 3rd uncontested, just so the pitcher (F1) can employ the wind-up instead of the stretch. Less distraction, easier to focus when you don't have to worry about stretch-coming-set particulars.

 

Yes, to echo all my colleagues here... This umpire you encountered pulled this balk call out of his Ball Bag of Bizarro World.

[johnnyg08]

You guys are awesome. I just wish every little league umpire would be a little more cautious which their new found power and authority.

 

 

If they're truly "Little League" umpires they are volunteering their time...meaning working for free for your entertainment...quite possibly away from their families.  Tread lightly sir.

[ALStripes17]

You guys are awesome. I just wish every little league umpire would be a little more cautious which their new found power and authority.

If they're truly "Little League" umpires they are volunteering their time...meaning working for free for your entertainment...quite possibly away from their families. Tread lightly sir.

I was under the same notion for quite some time; however, some Little League sanctioned baseball leagues have paid umpires. LL encourages volunteer umpires

[SoCal Lurker]

Besides this, the bases are loaded... The pitcher may pitch from the windup, complete with any contortion or leg kick (or lack thereof) he chooses provided he stays in contact with the rubber and he is making a pitch (to the plate), not a throw to any other base. With bases loaded, the pitcher can stand atop the rubber with both feet and go into a complete wind-up, including taking a drop step behind the rubber with his free foot to get his wind-up started... but the understanding is that he is locked in and committed to making a legal pitch to the plate.

 

Sometimes, pitchers (especially younger ones) are more effective in the wind-up than the stretch, and I've seen DT coaches allow R2 to get to 3rd uncontested, just so the pitcher (F1) can employ the wind-up instead of the stretch. Less distraction, easier to focus when you don't have to worry about stretch-coming-set particulars.

 

Yes, to echo all my colleagues here... This umpire you encountered pulled this balk call out of his Ball Bag of Bizarro World.

Not sure I understand -- he can pitch from the windup with any runners on any bases.  Going to the windup is simply limiting the options to control the runner.

 

Like Maven, I simply suspect this is a new umpire who has confused "what I usually see" with "what must happen."  Wheher that is his fault, or what was part of his education on balks is hard to say.

[johnnyg08]

 

 

You guys are awesome. I just wish every little league umpire would be a little more cautious which their new found power and authority.

If they're truly "Little League" umpires they are volunteering their time...meaning working for free for your entertainment...quite possibly away from their families. Tread lightly sir.

 

I was under the same notion for quite some time; however, some Little League sanctioned baseball leagues have paid umpires. LL encourages volunteer umpires

 

 

yeah, isn't it tied to post-season work that you could've have accepted pay for the regular season stuff to advance to post season

[ALStripes17]

You guys are awesome. I just wish every little league umpire would be a little more cautious which their new found power and authority.

If they're truly "Little League" umpires they are volunteering their time...meaning working for free for your entertainment...quite possibly away from their families. Tread lightly sir.

I was under the same notion for quite some time; however, some Little League sanctioned baseball leagues have paid umpires. LL encourages volunteer umpires

yeah, isn't it tied to post-season work that you could've have accepted pay for the regular season stuff to advance to post season

I will have to yield to our officiating brethren on that question. I only work with HS and Dixie youth baseball

[Sayhey]

If you get a chance to watch Matt Cain work for the 1st place Giants you will see that he has almost zero movement when coming set.

He does not move his non pivot foot and he has almost no hand movement. The same with his fellow staff member Tim Lincecum. Both have thrown no hitters and a perfect game for Cain.

we are leading off and coming set at 10 years of age in our area. The traveling teams want this component in their games. Sometimes we warn and then call a balk later. We are not strict, only calling obvious balks and talking to coaches in between innings. There is no requirement for a pitcher to "stretch" as he comes set. He must get on the rubber with hands seperated and he must bring the hands together to come set and he must pause before pitching. Those are the 3 movements that he must make.

[grayhawk]

 

 

 

You guys are awesome. I just wish every little league umpire would be a little more cautious which their new found power and authority.

If they're truly "Little League" umpires they are volunteering their time...meaning working for free for your entertainment...quite possibly away from their families. Tread lightly sir.

 

I was under the same notion for quite some time; however, some Little League sanctioned baseball leagues have paid umpires. LL encourages volunteer umpires

 

 

yeah, isn't it tied to post-season work that you could've have accepted pay for the regular season stuff to advance to post season

 

 

I believe the question is on the application for LL Regionals and the LLWS.  They want folks that don't take money to umpire LL games.  I believe it's only an issue at those levels.  It probably depends on the district as to whether they will use guys who have taken a LL paycheck to umpire district, section and division games.  It's well known to my local district that I am a HS umpire and also work other paid gigs.  I've never been asked if I have taken a paycheck to work any LL games (which I haven't).

 

I have no intention of volunteering enough over the next 10+ years to be considered for a regional assignment.  I'd love to work these games and be on ESPN, but I just can't put in the time.

[Guest scott]

umpstu, I am a bit confused on your outrage and insinuation that I am "rubbing it in his face", how so? I didn't say his name or even where we play or any association what so ever. And what motivation would I have to come here and not tell the "whole truth". I accurately described the situation and humbly came here to confirm my thoughts or possible correction if I were mistaken. I don't plan to appeal, or contact the league but I want to make sure of my assumptions in case we come across this in the future. And by the way our umps are paid, not that it matters. I would think if he is to be a "fantastic future umpire" he might like to know when he is wrong as well. You should not be so afraid to be wrong, it is usually when you learn the most.

[Replacematt]

umpstu, I am a bit confused on your outrage and insinuation that I am "rubbing it in his face", how so? I didn't say his name or even where we play or any association what so ever. And what motivation would I have to come here and not tell the "whole truth". I accurately described the situation and humbly came here to confirm my thoughts or possible correction if I were mistaken. I don't plan to appeal, or contact the league but I want to make sure of my assumptions in case we come across this in the future. And by the way our umps are paid, not that it matters. I would think if he is to be a "fantastic future umpire" he might like to know when he is wrong as well. You should not be so afraid to be wrong, it is usually when you learn the most.

 

It's your snide comment about this umpire's motivations that rankled a lot of us on here.