Batter deliberatly gets hit...

[stl_ump]

Batter sticks his knee into the strike zone and gets hit.

Are there any mechanics for letting people know this happened?   Or do you call time like normal and then explain what happened as needed?

Thanks

 

[maven]

There are no official mechanics to communicate our ruling of "failure to attempt/permitting to hit." Intentionally moving into the pitch satisfies either test for denying HBP.

We do need to kill it immediately, which I follow with "Stay right there!" to the batter. I will also sometimes do an exaggerated motion like the batter moving into the pitch: typically arm or leg turning into the pitch.

I don't put much stock in the imitation part: it generally does not stop a coach from coming out, and serves little other purpose. But if it works for you, it can be a communication tool, which is of course the purpose of any signal, official or not.

[umpstu]

11 minutes ago, maven said:

There are no official mechanics to communicate our ruling of "failure to attempt/permitting to hit." Intentionally moving into the pitch satisfies either test for denying HBP.

We do need to kill it immediately, which I follow with "Stay right there!" to the batter. I will also sometimes do an exaggerated motion like the batter moving into the pitch: typically arm or leg turning into the pitch.

I don't put much stock in the imitation part: it generally does not stop a coach from coming out, and serves little other purpose. But if it works for you, it can be a communication tool, which is of course the purpose of any signal, official or not.

Exactly

[noumpere]

"Time" (not like "normal" -- louder)

"Stay here" (right hand out and up; index finger pointing down at the ground)

"That's a strike" (hammer type indication)

Give the count

[stl_ump]

Thanks all!!

[smckin]

Kill It and advise batter ... no sir stay right there

[Aging_Arbiter]

14 minutes ago, smckin said:

no sir stay right there

sir??   That's profiling.  Profiling isn't good. 

[umpstu]

2 hours ago, Aging_Arbiter said:

sir??   That's profiling.  Profiling isn't good. 

Man, seems as if this post might be sarcasm or something.

[beerguy55]

No matter how you communicate it, your mechanic will be followed by this:

 

 

[AngryOsito]

On 5/6/2019 at 3:34 PM, beerguy55 said:

No matter how you communicate it, your mechanic will be followed by this:

 

 

Had this in an LL Minor game earlier this season.  Kid just stood there and watched a "Minor Curveball" hit his leg.  Coach argued he didn't have time to make an attempt to get out of the way.  I wanted to tell him my dead grandfather would have had time to get out of the way, but my filter kicked in before that happened. 

[Recontra]

I'll add that we've got to confidently (and emphatically) make and own this call. OM is charging out or over, it's not a call we can take back, and it's certainly not a call we can accept an invitation to go to a partner for help.

I watched a h.s. state playoff game this spring. A friend was on the dish who is also a great NCAA umpire. He made this call late in a close elimination game with runners on, and just a very subtly perceptible left elbow push into the ball by the batter. His signaling mechanic was awesome, even if nobody could hear his verbal because of the screaming fans. He came up big with "Time!" He then said loudly, "No, stay here!", he shook his head a bit while doing that, and then while still standing fairly square to the field, he emphatically pointed two times down toward the plate with his right index finger with fairly long arm strokes, and then pointed at the batter and then the batter's box. It looked fricking beautiful, and there wasn't a person in that park who didn't know what the call was or what the significance to the game was. OM of course came charging out, but it was a short-lived conversation, and I suspect (knowing the coach) that it was short-lived in part because of the confidence and emphatic nature of the signaling mechanic. So, while I agree there's no set signaling mechanic, what I saw that afternoon was awesome!

[ousafe]

7 hours ago, AngryOsito said:

Had this in an LL Minor game earlier this season.  Kid just stood there and watched a "Minor Curveball" hit his leg.  Coach argued he didn't have time to make an attempt to get out of the way.  I wanted to tell him my dead grandfather would have had time to get out of the way, but my filter kicked in before that happened. 

Might want to consult the LL casebook called "Make the right call".  Your league UIC or league president should have a copy to share with you.

[catsbackr]

On 6/26/2019 at 2:12 PM, Recontra said:

I'll add that we've got to confidently (and emphatically) make and own this call. OM is charging out or over, it's not a call we can take back, and it's certainly not a call we can accept an invitation to go to a partner for help.

I watched a h.s. state playoff game this spring. A friend was on the dish who is also a great NCAA umpire. He made this call late in a close elimination game with runners on, and just a very subtly perceptible left elbow push into the ball by the batter. His signaling mechanic was awesome, even if nobody could hear his verbal because of the screaming fans. He came up big with "Time!" He then said loudly, "No, stay here!", he shook his head a bit while doing that, and then while still standing fairly square to the field, he emphatically pointed two times down toward the plate with his right index finger with fairly long arm strokes, and then pointed at the batter and then the batter's box. It looked fricking beautiful, and there wasn't a person in that park who didn't know what the call was or what the significance to the game was. OM of course came charging out, but it was a short-lived conversation, and I suspect (knowing the coach) that it was short-lived in part because of the confidence and emphatic nature of the signaling mechanic. So, while I agree there's no set signaling mechanic, what I saw that afternoon was awesome!

I'm not sure you need to be so emphatic or animated with this call.

 

"Time", "Stay here" (while pointing to the batter's box), "That's a strike/ball" (use appropriate mechanic).

 

Be prepared to explain it to the coach, even though he probably knows exactly what happened.

[urout17]

I had this happen in a game a few years ago.  Bases loaded (of course) and the batter fouled off 3-4 pitches.  He then got fooled on a breaking ball and stuck his knee in the strike zone, got hit and started up the first base line.  Just as stated above, after yelling time and calling the batter out, I waited for the head coach (who was coaching 3B) to come down, which he did. I explained to him exactly what his player did. I was always taught when a coach comes out to question what happened you're now on a witness stand, say as little as possible but be clear what you have and don't demonstrate physically what happened. He didn't like the call but didn't put up too much fuss.

[yawetag]

2 hours ago, urout17 said:

say as little as possible but be clear what you have

Never say more than 5 words.

"John, he stuck his knee out."

(yes, that's 6, but it has the coach's name)

[Capt Chaos]

On 4/30/2019 at 11:05 AM, noumpere said:

"Time" (not like "normal" -- louder)

"Stay here" (right hand out and up; index finger pointing down at the ground)

"That's a strike" (hammer type indication)

Give the count

This is excellent it covers everyone. Well said. I will be using this going forward.

[philaump]

I've had this happen to me, twice...  One kid stuck his foot out to get hit, another stuck his arm out over the strike zone...

1. Call time right away
2. Call the play dead to prevent any movement by any baserunners
3. Tell the hitter to stay where he is
4. Call the pitch a ball or strike

 

[noumpere]

23 minutes ago, philaump said:

I've had this happen to me, twice...  One kid stuck his foot out to get hit, another stuck his arm out over the strike zone...

1. Call time right away
2. Call the play dead to prevent any movement by any baserunners
3. Tell the hitter to stay where he is
4. Call the pitch a ball or strike

 

That's (at least) one step too many.

[mac266]

On 5/6/2019 at 4:34 PM, beerguy55 said:

No matter how you communicate it, your mechanic will be followed by this:

 

 

This is the reason I remember the plate is exactly 17" wide

[SeeingEyeDog]

On 6/26/2019 at 11:45 AM, AngryOsito said:

Had this in an LL Minor game earlier this season.  Kid just stood there and watched a "Minor Curveball" hit his leg.  Coach argued he didn't have time to make an attempt to get out of the way.  I wanted to tell him my dead grandfather would have had time to get out of the way, but my filter kicked in before that happened. 

If the coach doesn't ask for time and or says anything there that isn't a calm, reasonable question...I am dumping him. That's a judgement call.

~Dawg

[Aging_Arbiter]

On 3/30/2021 at 11:36 AM, SeeingEyeDog said:

Had this in an LL Minor game earlier this season.  Kid just stood there and watched a "Minor Curveball" hit his leg.  Coach argued he didn't have time to make an attempt to get out of the way.  I wanted to tell him my dead grandfather would have had time to get out of the way, but my filter kicked in before that happened. 

LL Minors?    so......8-10 y/o.  A curve ball in Minors?  First, I'm inclined to believe it was more gravity, than ball rotation. Second, at that age, if the batter so much as squints his eyes.........in his/her mind, they made an attempt to get out of the way.  I have NEVER seen an 8-10 y/o take one for the team.

[The Man in Blue]

On 4/5/2021 at 12:54 PM, Aging_Arbiter said:

LL Minors?    so......8-10 y/o.  A curve ball in Minors?  First, I'm inclined to believe it was more gravity, than ball rotation. Second, at that age, if the batter so much as squints his eyes.........in his/her mind, they made an attempt to get out of the way.  I have NEVER seen an 8-10 y/o take one for the team.

 

You haven't called much 8-10 LL then, have you?  Every parent will tell you their kid has a wicked nasty knuckle-curve with 8" of movement, but that's only to change it up from his 82mph fastball.

[Velho]

A few years ago (so about my 3rd or 4th yr umping) personal point of emphasis was this intentional HBP (I swear my son is the second coming of Don Baylor).

Anyways, doing LL Majors game plate. Inside pitch, batter statue still, and I start think "oh, I got one here". It hits him on the hand... and he drops, screaming and crying.   😬  Huh, guess that wasn't on purpose.

[ArchAngel72]

I have seen kids flinch and take one, well they moved

I saw a kid square to bunt and it hit him over the plate in the chest.  "Time that's a strike!  You stay here" 

coach was like but it hit him.

Yeah he leaned out over the plate and took it while it was in the zone. Its a strike

 

Also had a LL stick his hands up with the bat and it bounced off his helmet. I sent him to 1st as he was in the box completely, the defensive coach came out and complained he swung.  I said IN MY JUDGEMENT he put his hands up in defense of himself, it looked like a swing but I have never seen anyone swing by putting their hands up to their face. 

He was not happy with it cause yeah the bat came around, but a swing in LL has to be meant as a swing, that WAS not a swing it was a kid protecting his face. 

[Velho]

7 minutes ago, ArchAngel72 said:

LL has to be meant as a swing, that WAS not a swing it was a kid protecting his face. 

I've had that more than once. I just look at the coach with an unsaid "he's 4'11, 85lbs, and crying. Are you serious right now?"