ALL R.A. DICKEY BALKS in ONE THREAD

[Richvee]

Help. I see nothing here. 

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=26979915&c_id=mlb#/copy

[mstaylor]

Yep, knee popped ever so slightly. He also looked like he moved his shoulders slightly right at the beginning. Both things are very subtle but they balk that at the MLB level.

[BuckeyeMike]

I saw the hands move outward from the body immediately prior to the move.  BALK!

[Thunderheads]

how is this move different ?

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=26977137&topic_id=9782246&c_id=mlb&tcid=vpp_copy_26977137&v=3

[Mudder]

Yep, knee popped ever so slightly. He also looked like he moved his shoulders slightly right at the beginning. Both things are very subtle but they balk that at the MLB level.

 

But its impossible to make that jump turn without popping your knee?

[bam]

I saw the hands move outward from the body immediately prior to the move.  BALK!

That's the only thing that I noticed.

The knee pop, not so much.

MLB balks drive me crazy. They balk things like this, but let Andy Pettitte step 60 degrees toward the plate and throw to first.

[maven]

I had a twitchy, just-up-from-JV F1 yesterday in my game. Game was in hand the other way, so I didn't hear about it. Ugh.

 

I'm glad I don't have to call such balks.

[BigUmpire]

 

I saw the hands move outward from the body immediately prior to the move.  BALK!

That's the only thing that I noticed.

The knee pop, not so much.

MLB balks drive me crazy. They balk things like this, but let Andy Pettitte step 60 degrees toward the plate and throw to first.

 

So true. Pettitte balks every time.

[Umpire in Chief]

I saw the hands move outward from the body immediately prior to the move.  BALK!

Thats what I saw.

[bam]

how is this move different ?

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=26977137&topic_id=9782246&c_id=mlb&tcid=vpp_copy_26977137&v=3

 

That one actually looked much more obvious. Bottom line is they're both balks. 

 

If I had to hazard a guess, someone happened to casually mention to U1 that after Dickey picked off the first runner, they thought he popped his knee prior to the move. U1 then locks in solely on the knee of Dickey next time there's a pickoff and - low and behold - there's a balk there.

 

I can't stand the nit-picky crap for shoulder flinches and what have you. However this move in particular needs to be called all night long.

I honestly can't see a knee pop in advance of all the other moving parts. Maybe I'm blind (I've heard it before), or not experienced enough (could be), but if you were to look at video of every pickoff move to first in MLB just this year, I'd bet you'd see the same knee movement more than 90% of the time.

[Haid D' Salaami]

Knee buckle...

[mstaylor]

The difference between a knee pop and a legal move is on a pop the pitcher flinches the knee but returns it to a straight position. On a legal move it had to move but it is part of the step or jump move. The object is to move it slightly and quickly to freeze the runner or cause him to break.

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[Mudder]

The difference between a knee pop and a legal move is on a pop the pitcher flinches the knee but returns it to a straight position. On a legal move it had to move but it is part of the step or jump move. The object is to move it slightly and quickly to freeze the runner or cause him to break.

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I understand your explanation, but man I just can't see it.  His knee bend looks like its part of the jump move, it does not look like its a premove before the actual jump.  To me it looks like a million other jump moves pitchers make legally.

 

Maybe someone can post a vid of a similar jump move that's legal so we can see the difference.

[maven]

I understand your explanation, but man I just can't see it.

I wouldn't get too worked up about it. First, the video might not be showing everything. Second, MLB might think Dickey gets away with this move too much, and so have directed umpires to watch for it and nail anything in the vicinity.

Figuring out one call here on this tiny, technical balk won't make any of us better for the games we work.

[bam]

I just watched again - for like the 20tth time. Still nothing. I must be watching the wrong video

[mstaylor]

You just haven't been to the Mike Taylor balk school.

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[LMSANS]

You just haven't been to the Mike Taylor balk school.

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You're going to have to show me that when I'm down there next month...

[BigUmpire]

" If you go out looking for trouble, you will find it"

 

 

Bumper sticker.

 

[JHSump]

 

I saw the hands move outward from the body immediately prior to the move.  BALK!

Thats what I saw.

 

And, that's what I saw.  But apparently that's not what the umpire saw.  Maybe not even visible from A.

[BalkHawk]

I watched this live yesterday. Then, I watched it again a dozen times until SWMBO became agitated.

I don't have a balk for buckling the knee; it looks to me like he broke his knee as part of a continuous pickoff move.

However, if you watch the free foot closely you will see that there is an ever-so-subtle stutter step. In other words: 8.05© The pitcher, while touching his plate, fails to step directly toward a base before throwing to that base.

[sdix00]

The balk call comes at the same time F1 turns.   VERY VERY early.  

 

I think UIC may be on the right track with the hands (start/stop prior to the move). 

 

The only odd thing for me is that U1 slaps his leg indicating a step balk. 

 

If it is a step balk, I don't have it.   I have consistently not seen the knee buckles that have been posted on this forum.  

 

If it is a knee buckle, then where is the disadvantage.  If the rear knee buckles, then there is a very high likely hood that F1 will commit to throw and not pitch.   To me, a rear knee buckling is much more a "tell" than a balk and give the runner an advantage. 

[BalkHawk]

If F1 is good, and it goes uncalled, runners will see the knee buckle as a tell and retreat to their base, at which time F1 can deliver a pitch with the runners standing flat-footed with no lead.

[Haid D' Salaami]

U1 will never call a no stop balk on a Rh pitcher in a 4 man or 3 man system.

[BalkHawk]

^^Word. Besides, I saw the hands moving away from the body as his natural, typical motion to come set.

[mstaylor]

Also, if the runner is leaning and he sees a leg pop, many times he will freeze or get off balance trying to get back. One of my present umpires was a champion at it. He kids I was one of the few that ever caught him.