ALL R.A. DICKEY BALKS in ONE THREAD

[johnnyg08]

I think he stepped off.  

[johnnyg08]

Be ready for this one folks.  These moves start in MLB and trickle down to NCAA, FED, etc...

 

Balk all day.

[VAUmp]

BALK

[GoodOldGus]

I think Dickey is trying to satisfy "stepping off" and "stepping towards the base" in all one motion with his pivot foot.  If done correctly, like in this video, I believe it's technically legal, however it is a very, very difficult move.  The more recent video from this season, you can see Dickey not quite doing it correctly and gets called for the balk.  

[maven]

I think Dickey is trying to satisfy "stepping off" and "stepping towards the base" in all one motion with his pivot foot.  If done correctly, like in this video, I believe it's technically legal, however it is a very, very difficult move.  The more recent video from this season, you can see Dickey not quite doing it correctly and gets called for the balk.  

 

That's impossible. Disengaging is done with the pivot foot. Stepping toward a base is done with the free foot. It's impossible to use one foot to satisfy both requirements.

 

He's disengaging, and taking advantage of the leeway we give about separating the hands prior to completely disengaging. MLB might have to rethink that interp, with the advantage it gives Dickey in this rather awkward move.

[noumpere]

I think Dickey is trying to satisfy "stepping off" and "stepping towards the base" in all one motion with his pivot foot.  If done correctly, like in this video, I believe it's technically legal, however it is a very, very difficult move.  The more recent video from this season, you can see Dickey not quite doing it correctly and gets called for the balk.  

 

Well, by rule, the pivot foot must hit the ground before the hands separate,  We give leeway to  LH F1 when he steps back and snaps a throw to first.  Should we give the same leeway on this play?

[ricka56]

I think Dickey is trying to satisfy "stepping off" and "stepping towards the base" in all one motion with his pivot foot.  If done correctly, like in this video, I believe it's technically legal, however it is a very, very difficult move.  The more recent video from this season, you can see Dickey not quite doing it correctly and gets called for the balk.  

 

Every disengagement step is, by definition, towards 2B. But F1 doesn't get a step towards the base exemption with a sloppy (incorrect) disengagement step.

 

And this F1 is getting an advantage by umpires giving him leeway on the hands separating prior to disengagement, but no more than any other F1 that separates hands early. If one wants to make Dickey's early hand separation illegal, then they'd have to make everyone's early hand separation illegal. No out-loving umpire should be in favor of that.

[GoodOldGus]

Honest question....does the rule book specifically state the step towards a base must be with the "free foot"?  I read through the balk rules and I didn't see it. 

[ricka56]

Honest question....does the rule book specifically state the step towards a base must be with the "free foot"?  I read through the balk rules and I didn't see it. 

 

I don't think the rule book specifies it has to be the free foot, but there are lots of mistakes/omissions in the rule book. I think you'd by awfully lonely with a pivot foot step towards a base interp.

[mrumpiresir]

Whatever happened to the requirement to step ahead of the throw with the free foot?  I thought it was a balk.

[maven]

Honest question....does the rule book specifically state the step towards a base must be with the "free foot"?  I read through the balk rules and I didn't see it. 

 

8.01 COMMENT indicates that disengaging must be done with the pivot foot. By implication, stepping and throwing is done with the free foot. FED 6-1-3 explicitly states that stepping and throwing/feinting must be done with the non-pivot foot.

 

 

Whatever happened to the requirement to step ahead of the throw with the free foot?  I thought it was a balk.

 

It's still there. Dickey was disengaging and throwing, not stepping and throwing.

[Rich Ives]

And while someone is at it please cite the rule where the hands can't separate before the disengage step is completed.

[johnnyg08]

You can guarantee yourselves that this move will trickle down to NCAA, FED, and Youth.

So it's important that we know how to handle it.

[maven]

And while someone is at it please cite the rule where the hands can't separate before the disengage step is completed.

 

FED 6.1.3C.

 

For OBR it's an interp. My BRD is at home. The idea is that he's not disengaged and an infielder until the step is completed.

[Jimurray]

You can guarantee yourselves that this move will trickle down to NCAA, FED, and Youth.So it's important that we know how to handle it.

FED and NCAA rule that the pivot foot must land before the hands separate. While we don't normally strictly apply this as in a snap throw, we can use it to balk the "Dickey" move in those venues. OBR does not have that restriction. But a separation of hands could be called the start of a pitch.

[johnnyg08]

This one @maven?

 

 

[mrumpiresir]

 

Honest question....does the rule book specifically state the step towards a base must be with the "free foot"?  I read through the balk rules and I didn't see it. 

 

8.01 COMMENT indicates that disengaging must be done with the pivot foot. By implication, stepping and throwing is done with the free foot. FED 6-1-3 explicitly states that stepping and throwing/feinting must be done with the non-pivot foot.

 

 

Whatever happened to the requirement to step ahead of the throw with the free foot?  I thought it was a balk.

 

It's still there. Dickey was disengaging and throwing, not stepping and throwing.

 

Ok I see.  I looked at the video again and it does appear he legally disengaged first.

[Rich Ives]

 

And while someone is at it please cite the rule where the hands can't separate before the disengage step is completed.

 

FED 6.1.3C.

 

For OBR it's an interp. My BRD is at home. The idea is that he's not disengaged and an infielder until the step is completed.

 

 

2011 BRD Item 369.

 

NCAA foot must hit first.

 

OBR does NOT say that.

[Rich Ives]

 

You can guarantee yourselves that this move will trickle down to NCAA, FED, and Youth.So it's important that we know how to handle it.

FED and NCAA rule that the pivot foot must land before the hands separate. While we don't normally strictly apply this as in a snap throw, we can use it to balk the "Dickey" move in those venues. OBR does not have that restriction. But a separation of hands could be called the start of a pitch.

 

 

If the pivot foot is moving it can only be a disengage or a pick (jump or jab). It cannot be a pitch.

[Thunderheads]

I've just taken all threads regarding R.A. Dickey and his balks over the last few seasons....and put them all here right now.   There were 4+ of the same posts going on , so they were merged.

[ricka56]

If the pivot foot is moving it can only be a disengage or a pick (jump or jab). It cannot be a pitch.

 

The pivot foot moving could also be an incorrect disengagement (as it was in this case)... balk.

 

If F1 is engaged/set stop and then separates his hands and does not delivering a pitch, technically he has balked before his lagging disengagement happens. As others have pointed out, we let that slide if the hand separation is immediately followed by a jump/jab step or a legitimate disengagement. But I wouldn't give that leeway if his disengagement was sloppy/invalid. If the defense wants to claim that this pivot foot movement was a step towards 2B, then I have him on an early hand separation/failure to deliver a pitch balk. It may sound arbitrary/inconsistent to F1/defense, but that's just tough $#!+.