FranklinT Posted February 8 Report Posted February 8 Can’t wait for this. Apparently Ray has settled on a name…Invictus 1 Quote
The Short Umpire Posted February 8 Report Posted February 8 2 hours ago, FranklinT said: Can’t wait for this. Apparently Ray has settled on a name…Invictus I’m all for innovation but Ray has been working on this (and teasing everyone with it) for years! IMO it’s not a good look that a new member joins here and takes the initiative to make a new retrofit pad in a matter of months and all of a sudden Ray is ready to put out his. It may have just been bad timing for Ray but it seems like he was dragging his feet because he thought that he had control of the market and someone threatened that control so he’s deciding to do something about it… Again it could have also just been really bad timing for Ray but it’s still just not a good look. 1 Quote
834k3r Posted February 8 Report Posted February 8 Perhaps @MadMax or @Razzer himself would like to whet our collective appetite for more details on this site as a tease? Quote
ousafe Posted February 8 Report Posted February 8 Looks like it needs MaxVictus mods... Frankly that won't move me off my Cobalt. Quote
wolfe_man Posted February 8 Report Posted February 8 I'll wait to see the final product. My understanding for the delay is not so much Ray dragging his feet, but more due to issues with his people overseas getting his mod right so that he could test it and get it right before selling it. The pandemic created a lot of issues for those that depend on China for anything. My jury is out on both new products until I've seen X number of positive reviews saying it is worth the funds and that it is that much better than anything else out there today. There are a number of companies (not at liberty to say who) coming out with new CP's in the near future that employ much thinner foam laminate padding (1/2" or less) that are both lightweight and slimming - but still very protective. D3o foam is not the best choice anymore, it's still good, but no longer the best. As you can see with the Cobalt, there are other excellent breathable and hole-y fabrics available today. Some of these companies hope to have their models out this Spring, so keep a wary eye out for 'em! I haven't had time to digest Ray's post entirely yet, but I'm hoping it's more than just a pad sandwich he's creating. I really hope someone takes the time to reinvent the wheel. Why do we keep recreating plastic and foam when there are other options today that are lighter and thinner with the same protection? Let's innovate! 1 Quote
concertman1971 Posted February 9 Report Posted February 9 I would love to see someone actually spend the money and resources to really TEST a new CP. What force does it absorb/dissipate? What types of proprietary padding is used and why? What is different about it? Is it just a 'mod' of a 30+ year old design, or is it really innovative? Think of the force 3 when it 1st came out. It was a market innovation. The CP and mask were unlike anything seen. There is something to be said (mostly financial I'm sure) that umpire CP do not have NOCSAE certs. Do the CP we wear really WORK, or do they just 'work' because they are what is available? My .02 1 1 Quote
Rock Bottom Posted February 9 Report Posted February 9 14 hours ago, The Short Umpire said: I’m all for innovation but Ray has been working on this (and teasing everyone with it) for years! IMO it’s not a good look that a new member joins here and takes the initiative to make a new retrofit pad in a matter of months and all of a sudden Ray is ready to put out his. It may have just been bad timing for Ray but it seems like he was dragging his feet because he thought that he had control of the market and someone threatened that control so he’s deciding to do something about it… Again it could have also just been really bad timing for Ray but it’s still just not a good look. There's a huge difference between a retrofit pad, and a brand new model of chest protector. And how does Ray have "control of the market" when he isn't (yet) selling a product in that market? (The market in this case being the new chest protector market.) I don't see anything replacing my All-Star CPU4000 unless it's significantly better - and I have both replacement pads and a unused CPU4000 backup - so I have no dog in the fight, but to say it's "not a good look" for Ray just doesn't make sense to me, especially with what you're comparing it to. 2 Quote
BT_Blue Posted February 9 Report Posted February 9 I would agree it feels a bit... odd... that this is being announced. I remember him talking about this pre-pandemic days. But it seems to have slipped into the "electronic indicator" area of gear that would be fun to see. Hopefully his and/or the other fella's pad ideas take off. But like many have said above. I doubt it would move me off my Cobalt when/if I step back on the field. Unless it greatly improved my AA to the point I can't not wear it. But I don't see that happening. Quote
spiffdawg7 Posted February 9 Report Posted February 9 17 hours ago, ousafe said: Looks like it needs MaxVictus mods... Frankly that won't move me off my Cobalt. What mods are you saying the Invictus needs? Have you actually seen Ray's new protector? I have just seen him say it will be like the Riddell but updated, I haven't actually seen any pics yet. 1 Quote
The Short Umpire Posted February 9 Report Posted February 9 18 hours ago, wolfe_man said: I'll wait to see the final product. My understanding for the delay is not so much Ray dragging his feet, but more due to issues with his people overseas getting his mod right so that he could test it and get it right before selling it. The pandemic created a lot of issues for those that depend on China for anything. I totally get the pandemic causing issues with supply and production. I faced a lot of issues like this myself being in construction. However, the only issues I've had getting supplies in the last 18 months has been with materials coming out of Russia. Benefit of the doubt to Ray here though that he may still be having issues. If this is released soon and all we get is pictures of a prototype that would lead me to believe that the delay has not been due supply/manufacturing issues thus revoking his "benefit of the doubt" card. 6 hours ago, Rock Bottom said: There's a huge difference between a retrofit pad, and a brand new model of chest protector. And how does Ray have "control of the market" when he isn't (yet) selling a product in that market? (The market in this case being the new chest protector market.) I don't see anything replacing my All-Star CPU4000 unless it's significantly better - and I have both replacement pads and a unused CPU4000 backup - so I have no dog in the fight, but to say it's "not a good look" for Ray just doesn't make sense to me, especially with what you're comparing it to. Correct, there is a huge difference between the two, but there's no new information about what Ray is actually offering. My understanding from previous discussions about this project is that he was merely going to offer a retrofit padding. Here is a link to a post from almost 2 years ago where Ray said exactly that, "I have a production pad almost signed off on which will keep you Gold lovers very happy. Low profile pad, just velcro your Gold carapace on the front and you will have low profile and protection." So, I'm working off the assumption, from past information, that Ray is simply doing a replacement pad. If this is not the case then I'm the one out of line. But to question how he has control of the market is ridiculous. Ray has a totally captive audience and a cult-like following of people who buy every product he puts out, just because its coming from him. He has a reach into the umpire market like none-other. He shows up to Wendlestedt every year with custom gear. He has a direct line into ump attire. Has a huge following on facebook. And all of that is on top of his personal collection of emails from people doing direct orders with him. Not to mention all the custom work he claims for plenty of guys working in MLB/MiLB. Him releasing this will gain traction way quicker than what anyone else could do. So yes, while he hasn't released anything yet, he's connected and has an ability to market the crap out of this. I don't have a dog in the fight either. I've been customizing my own CP's since I joined this forum, I've even gotten a lot of ideas from things Ray has posted, which I thank him for. More than anything, if this is just a replacement pad, it just bums me out for @Umpiresrock74 because he's done a ton of work in the last couple months trying to fill a gap in the market and I don't want to see him get squashed. Especially by something that was "almost done" two years ago and then vanished and wasn't brought up again until someone else threatened potential future business. @Umpiresrock74 Sorry to drag you into this but I respect the time you've devoted to your project and even though I'm not in need I'd like to see you succeed. 2 Quote
ousafe Posted February 9 Report Posted February 9 4 hours ago, spiffdawg7 said: What mods are you saying the Invictus needs? Have you actually seen Ray's new protector? I have just seen him say it will be like the Riddell but updated, I haven't actually seen any pics yet. Just working off the posted picture. First thing I thought was "that thing needs gap protection". Quote
spiffdawg7 Posted February 9 Report Posted February 9 27 minutes ago, ousafe said: Just working off the posted picture. First thing I thought was "that thing needs gap protection". That is the unicorn Riddell Power(in the picture) that gets bought and sold for around $1000 at this point. I agree I would want gap protection(and Ray's new protector probably will have gap protection). I was wondering if you had seen his new protector somewhere, I don't believe he has posted that at all. Quote
The Man in Blue Posted February 10 Report Posted February 10 21 hours ago, concertman1971 said: I would love to see someone actually spend the money and resources to really TEST a new CP. What force does it absorb/dissipate? What types of proprietary padding is used and why? What is different about it? Is it just a 'mod' of a 30+ year old design, or is it really innovative? Think of the force 3 when it 1st came out. It was a market innovation. The CP and mask were unlike anything seen. There is something to be said (mostly financial I'm sure) that umpire CP do not have NOCSAE certs. Do the CP we wear really WORK, or do they just 'work' because they are what is available? My .02 Especially in a day and age when it became a requirement for catchers in NFHS. 1 Quote
Umpiresrock74 Posted February 13 Report Posted February 13 On 2/9/2024 at 9:00 AM, The Short Umpire said: I totally get the pandemic causing issues with supply and production. I faced a lot of issues like this myself being in construction. However, the only issues I've had getting supplies in the last 18 months has been with materials coming out of Russia. Benefit of the doubt to Ray here though that he may still be having issues. If this is released soon and all we get is pictures of a prototype that would lead me to believe that the delay has not been due supply/manufacturing issues thus revoking his "benefit of the doubt" card. Correct, there is a huge difference between the two, but there's no new information about what Ray is actually offering. My understanding from previous discussions about this project is that he was merely going to offer a retrofit padding. Here is a link to a post from almost 2 years ago where Ray said exactly that, "I have a production pad almost signed off on which will keep you Gold lovers very happy. Low profile pad, just velcro your Gold carapace on the front and you will have low profile and protection." So, I'm working off the assumption, from past information, that Ray is simply doing a replacement pad. If this is not the case then I'm the one out of line. But to question how he has control of the market is ridiculous. Ray has a totally captive audience and a cult-like following of people who buy every product he puts out, just because its coming from him. He has a reach into the umpire market like none-other. He shows up to Wendlestedt every year with custom gear. He has a direct line into ump attire. Has a huge following on facebook. And all of that is on top of his personal collection of emails from people doing direct orders with him. Not to mention all the custom work he claims for plenty of guys working in MLB/MiLB. Him releasing this will gain traction way quicker than what anyone else could do. So yes, while he hasn't released anything yet, he's connected and has an ability to market the crap out of this. I don't have a dog in the fight either. I've been customizing my own CP's since I joined this forum, I've even gotten a lot of ideas from things Ray has posted, which I thank him for. More than anything, if this is just a replacement pad, it just bums me out for @Umpiresrock74 because he's done a ton of work in the last couple months trying to fill a gap in the market and I don't want to see him get squashed. Especially by something that was "almost done" two years ago and then vanished and wasn't brought up again until someone else threatened potential future business. @Umpiresrock74 Sorry to drag you into this but I respect the time you've devoted to your project and even though I'm not in need I'd like to see you succeed. Thanks man, I appreciate the sympathy. We have an offical replacement pad now, and I am super happy about it. Have you seen the pics? I dont give up. Im sure we will do fine. Quote
Umpiresrock74 Posted February 13 Report Posted February 13 On 2/9/2024 at 1:06 AM, concertman1971 said: I would love to see someone actually spend the money and resources to really TEST a new CP. What force does it absorb/dissipate? What types of proprietary padding is used and why? What is different about it? Is it just a 'mod' of a 30+ year old design, or is it really innovative? Think of the force 3 when it 1st came out. It was a market innovation. The CP and mask were unlike anything seen. There is something to be said (mostly financial I'm sure) that umpire CP do not have NOCSAE certs. Do the CP we wear really WORK, or do they just 'work' because they are what is available? My .02 On 2/8/2024 at 11:27 AM, The Short Umpire said: I’m all for innovation but Ray has been working on this (and teasing everyone with it) for years! IMO it’s not a good look that a new member joins here and takes the initiative to make a new retrofit pad in a matter of months and all of a sudden Ray is ready to put out his. It may have just been bad timing for Ray but it seems like he was dragging his feet because he thought that he had control of the market and someone threatened that control so he’s deciding to do something about it… Again it could have also just been really bad timing for Ray but it’s still just not a good look. Yes. We have made a new pad, and is available to be bought. The cost is $150, it is a custom pad jacket, created to your liking! Anyone want to see pics!? Quote
Umpiresrock74 Posted February 13 Report Posted February 13 On 2/9/2024 at 1:06 AM, concertman1971 said: I would love to see someone actually spend the money and resources to really TEST a new CP. What force does it absorb/dissipate? What types of proprietary padding is used and why? What is different about it? Is it just a 'mod' of a 30+ year old design, or is it really innovative? Think of the force 3 when it 1st came out. It was a market innovation. The CP and mask were unlike anything seen. There is something to be said (mostly financial I'm sure) that umpire CP do not have NOCSAE certs. Do the CP we wear really WORK, or do they just 'work' because they are what is available? My .02 Hi, we are in the process of sending our protector to a testing company to have our retrofit pad tested to meet standards. We are open for business for people to buy are pads under "prototype" meaning it jsust hasnt been tested but it is availible. But I did take some shots off the chest protector. Had a kid through like 70mph at my chest protector a couple of times to test it. Felt it, but it didnt hurt, (from my experience). Quote
Umpiresrock74 Posted February 13 Report Posted February 13 On 2/8/2024 at 2:25 PM, wolfe_man said: I'll wait to see the final product. My understanding for the delay is not so much Ray dragging his feet, but more due to issues with his people overseas getting his mod right so that he could test it and get it right before selling it. The pandemic created a lot of issues for those that depend on China for anything. My jury is out on both new products until I've seen X number of positive reviews saying it is worth the funds and that it is that much better than anything else out there today. There are a number of companies (not at liberty to say who) coming out with new CP's in the near future that employ much thinner foam laminate padding (1/2" or less) that are both lightweight and slimming - but still very protective. D3o foam is not the best choice anymore, it's still good, but no longer the best. As you can see with the Cobalt, there are other excellent breathable and hole-y fabrics available today. Some of these companies hope to have their models out this Spring, so keep a weather eye out! I haven't had time to digest Ray's post entirely yet, but I'm hoping it's more than just a pad sandwich he's creating. I really hope someone takes the time to reinvent the wheel. Why do we keep recreating plastic and foam when there are other options today that are lighter and thinner with the same protection? Let's innovate! Well we dont depend on China for using our products, yes they are made oversease, as everything is, but everything is designed here and put together in Florida. Quote
Umpiresrock74 Posted February 13 Report Posted February 13 On 2/9/2024 at 10:56 PM, The Man in Blue said: Especially in a day and age when it became a requirement for catchers in NFHS. Going to call BS on testing. They can afford it, I got a qoute for $650. 1 Quote
boyinr Posted February 13 Report Posted February 13 11 minutes ago, Umpiresrock74 said: Going to call BS on testing. They can afford it, I got a qoute for $650. This likely falls into the category of "don't ask the question if you won't like the answer" 1 1 Quote
umpstu Posted February 13 Report Posted February 13 2 hours ago, Umpiresrock74 said: Going to call BS on testing. They can afford it, I got a qoute for $650. What and how would they actually do to test it? 1 Quote
The Man in Blue Posted February 14 Report Posted February 14 7 hours ago, umpstu said: What and how would they actually do to test it? 1 Quote
Umpiresrock74 Posted February 14 Report Posted February 14 21 hours ago, umpstu said: What and how would they actually do to test it? They can test it to see if it helps reduce impact to the chest area, and the other areas around it. Also the way it compresses to the rib cage, also the way it hits the heart area. Quote
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