MC @ Home and possible FPSR @ 2nd?

[kylehutson]

What made that slide illegal?

Not sliding directly into the base. The camera angle does make it more difficult to tell than if we had the 3BLX view the umpire *should* have, but R3 doesn't slide to home, he veers to his left to slide into the catcher.

[grayhawk]

Not sliding directly into the base. The camera angle does make it more difficult to tell than if we had the 3BLX view the umpire *should* have, but R3 doesn't slide to home, he veers to his left to slide into the catcher.

I'm talking about the play at second.

[kylehutson]

I'm talking about the play at second.

Ah, darnit. I missed that part. Sorry.

Yeah, on the second one, even going through frame-by-frame I don't see that one as an illegal slide. You could *maybe* argue that he illegally popped-up into the fielder?

[maven]

What made that slide illegal?

It's difficult to be sure from the video, but it looks as if the runner (a) does not slide on a direct line between the bases, (b) uses a rolling/blocking slide, and/or (c) makes contact beyond the base that alters play.

As you know, any one of these would be sufficient to rule an FPSR violation.

[grayhawk]

It's difficult to be sure from the video, but it looks as if the runner (a) does not slide on a direct line between the bases, (b) uses a rolling/blocking slide, and/or (c) makes contact beyond the base that alters play.

As you know, any one of these would be sufficient to rule an FPSR violation.

I would be okay with A and B.  Not so much with C.  The runner first makes contact with the fielder while he's ON the bag - not behind it.  Remember, the rule states that the fielder cannot go beyond the base AND THEN make contact or alter the play.

I just wanted to challenge what seemed to be a foregone conclusion that this was FPSR when the video is inconclusive, at best.

Edited January 19, 2016 by grayhawk

[maven]

I would be okay with A and B.  Not so much with C.  The runner first makes contact with the fielder while he's ON the bag - not behind it.  Remember, the rule states that the fielder cannot go beyond the base AND THEN make contact or alter the play.

I just wanted to challenge what seemed to be a foregone conclusion that this was FPSR when the video is inconclusive, at best.

No objection. Based on F4's throw, the play was clearly altered. That's enough to get my spidey-sense tingling for FPSR. Any R1 making a slide that ugly is not helping himself in the benefit-of-the-doubt sweepstakes (though of course ugly ≠ illegal).

[Richvee]

Not the clearest of video, but it looked to me like a pop up slide into F4.

[BT_Blue]

Also, doesn't a feet first slide have to legally have one leg and their buttock on the ground? It does now in NCAA. I believe it is in NFHS.

[Jimurray]

Also, doesn't a feet first slide have to legally have one leg and their buttock on the ground? It does now in NCAA. I believe it is in NFHS.

You may have just been made aware of the NCAA requirement but it has been in the book for awhile. Also been in the FED book for as long as I can remember. The NCAA wording also requires a leg or buttock to be on the ground "before the base".

[BT_Blue]

You may have just been made aware of the NCAA requirement but it has been in the book for awhile. Also been in the FED book for as long as I can remember. The NCAA wording also requires a leg or buttock to be on the ground "before the base".

Thanks. Forgot about the " before the base" part. It always just seemed to be common sense that would be part of it.

So, now that we are to that point. Live, I probably have FPSR in both and MC on the play at the plate. Being able to sit and watch a couple times. I still have FPSR. But I do NOT have MC on the play at the plate.

[Haid D' Salaami]

In college now, #1 is definitely an illegal slide. R3 would be out and runners sent back. However, I am not ejecting for the contact.

#2.. probably have FPSR in HS. Will have to think about it in college. I think now we have the option to get two on this in college for interference on an illegal slide. Not FPSR.

NCAA is now saying to slide feet first, the runner must have one leg and is butt on the ground.

you an also slide head first as long as your torso is on the ground before contact is made.

[BT_Blue]

Thank you. I could not remember the actual wording. Don't have my notes at hand.

[maven]

So, now that we are to that point. Live, I probably have FPSR in both and MC on the play at the plate. Being able to sit and watch a couple times. I still have FPSR. But I do NOT have MC on the play at the plate.

I think a call of MC is supportable on the play at the plate, but I agree with a no-call and I think it's preferable. It's worth reflecting on what led you to your considered conclusion, so that you can reach the same ruling in real time.

One thing to consider is: we want MC to be HUGE, so that even the kid's own coach is thinking, "Uh oh, he's gonna get ejected for that" and is already getting his sub ready before we make the ruling. To put it differently: we want no borderline MC calls. If it's borderline, then it's not MC (though we can still talk to the kid and tell him it's borderline).

I think that the play at the plate is borderline, which is why I say MC is supportable but not the best call.

If we had ruled MC, we need to remember to enforce the FPSR penalties as well. MC supersedes OBS, but it "tacks on" to INT/FPSR.

[Thunderheads]

Not the clearest of video, but it looked to me like a pop up slide into F4.

might be the best answer in this entire thread...........

[refump10]

Thanks for posting the videos.  In the spirit of learning and not in any way criticizing the umpires on the field look at U3's position on the second play. He starts in C, then moves three or four steps toward the working area.  My thought is that if he just stays put and maybe even takes a step towards the cutout he would be in about as good a position as he can be to see everything that happened at 2B. 

I know its tough to bounce back and forth from two- to three-man and back.  It's my natural inclination to move on every play since that's what we have to do in the two-man system; I've caught myself over-running plays at times. Just throwing it out there as food for thought

[noumpere]

3 hours ago, refump10 said:

Thanks for posting the videos.  In the spirit of learning and not in any way criticizing the umpires on the field look at U3's position on the second play. He starts in C, then moves three or four steps toward the working area.  My thought is that if he just stays put and maybe even takes a step towards the cutout he would be in about as good a position as he can be to see everything that happened at 2B. 

I know its tough to bounce back and forth from two- to three-man and back.  It's my natural inclination to move on every play since that's what we have to do in the two-man system; I've caught myself over-running plays at times. Just throwing it out there as food for thought

There's an R2 and a possible play at third.  U2 needs to move to be ready for either initial play -- and for a throw from F4 back to F5 to get R2 rounding third.

[refump10]

Good point. Didn't notice R2