Delay of game by 3rd base coach endless signaling

[Guest Martin Dahl]

So my son was pitching in his first HS game tonight, with his team down 9-0.  The opposing team's players were all wearing those armbands with the list of plays.  About every other pitch, the coach would slowly waddle down the basepath grass towards home plate.  The batter would step out of the box.  The coach would squint down at his clipboard and yell some 3-digit number like "one - four - two" to his batter, and each of the kids on base.  Then he'd slowly walk back to the coaches box and the batter would begin digging in at the plate.  It was a 15-20 second ritual, over and over and over.  The home plate ump never really called time out or did anything really.  The constant interruptions and delays did however, prevent my son from getting any type of rhythm on the mound and he struggled.  I finally questioned the pace of play from the stands and urged my kid to throw a pitch anyway.  In the end, I got a scolding from the athletic director, but no remedy for my kid.  (Don't ask about our coach, although I suspect he needs to initiate this and not a parent!).  What's the proper way for my fireballer to fight this delay tactic the next time we play these clowns?

[wolfe_man]

Unfortunately, this has been the case for a few years now.  With coaches yelling out "codes" to both the offense and defense pre-pitch.  Early in the season is when it is the worst though, when the kids are still learning their codes and have to look at their "QB sleeves" each time.  There really isn't a lot that an umpire can do with this as long as it isn't an obvious attempt to slow the game down.  We can keep batters in the box and try to move the game along, but we're limited with how far we can take it.

My suggestion for your son?  Don't let it mess with you, but rise to the challenge instead. Don't fight what you can't control, so focus on what you can control.  Slow down and set his own rhythm, so he's not waiting on them - but they are waiting on him now.  Don't make it egregious or too obvious, but just don't get ready until you know they're ready.  I'm talking max 1-2 seconds after the batter and coach is ready, then do your thing.

It's hard to say since I wasn't there, but I've seen this happen many times early in the season.  It should get better with time, but it is frustrating at the beginning.  As the saying says "you do you" - in this case, control your inner self, peace, control and then this won't rattle/shake/disrupt your rhythm anymore.  Many times what separates the good from the great is the ability to do just that - focus and change to fit the situation instead of letting the situation disrupt them from their purpose.  Your son is being presented with a valuable life lesson here, please help him to see how this will be useful later (or even possibly now - take driving for example) in his life. 

Best of luck!

[maven]

Agreed. Not much the defense can do, although the umpire should not be allowing the batter to leave the box with both feet. But he can step out with one and hold up the game.

The delay is entirely on the umpire. I would never allow this kind of regular shenanigan. When it appeared to be a regular thing, I'd loudly tell the batter to step back in and get ready. If he fails to comply, start calling penalty strikes. We'll get the game moving one way or another.

BTW, the rationale for moving the game along is exactly what the OP gives: "The constant interruptions and delays did however, prevent my son from getting any type of rhythm on the mound and he struggled." I want all the pitchers to get in rhythm, including plenty of secondary pitches for strikes. Nothing ruins a baseball game quicker than crappy pitching (true at all levels).

[SeeingEyeDog]

I would never advocate a deliberate quick pitch, of course. For high school ball that's a safety issue and could be construed as an intent to injure...it could be, it could be...why risk it?

But, I would say...I would be looking to deliver pitches against that playcalling opponent as efficiently as the plate umpire will allow. And of course, it's also worth mentioning that every umpire has THEIR own rhythm, too so what might be a quick pitch to one umpire, may not to another umpire. By delivering pitches as quickly as the plate umpire will allow, the pitcher would now be forcing the opposition to work on HIS schedule regardless of what kind of playcalling they want to do between pitches. There is no provision in the rules that umpires must "allow" time for signals or playcalls by either team. Changes to a pitcher's delivery frequency should be practiced away from game time so that when the time comes and the pitcher in question needs to increase their pace in a game, they are comfortable doing so to maximize velocity, control/location and overall team competitiveness.

~Dawg 

[The Man in Blue]

Not sure what rule set you were playing under, but NFHS prescribes 20 seconds for the batter to be ready.  Then, as @maven said, start calling strikes.  I think we may get more awareness on this as the effects from MLB trickle down. 

Shame on the umpire for allowing it to go on.

[Guest Carl]

Hi umpires,  

A follow up question.  The OP doesn't say how close to home the coach is moving.  But, how far down the line can the coach go before you start considering charging an offensive conference?  

U1 sees coach moving down the line (how far?):  "Would you like a conference, coach?"

That might be another thing the OP's coach could ask the umpire to consider in order to help his pitcher.

 

[BLWizzRanger]

I haven't seen anything on preventative umpiring either. Would you speak with the coach in between innings and let him know you are leaning toward using the rules at your disposal?



Sent from my SM-F721U1 using Tapatalk

[noumpere]

2 hours ago, BLWizzRanger said:

I haven't seen anything on preventative umpiring either. Would you speak with the coach in between innings and let him know you are leaning toward using the rules at your disposal?



Sent from my SM-F721U1 using Tapatalk
 

Absolutely.

[BigBlue4u]

2 hours ago, BLWizzRanger said:

I haven't seen anything on preventative umpiring either. Would you speak with the coach in between innings and let him know you are leaning toward using the rules at your disposal?

This is where an umpire must control the game. I'm not sure about how far down the 3b line I would let a coach come. But, between innings, I would tell the coach he is delaying the game and he needs to find another way to communicate with his batter.  

[The Man in Blue]

8 hours ago, BLWizzRanger said:

I haven't seen anything on preventative umpiring either. Would you speak with the coach in between innings and let him know you are leaning toward using the rules at your disposal?



Sent from my SM-F721U1 using Tapatalk
 

I agree with preventative umpiring, but between innings?  No.  It isn't going to go on that long.

 

As for charging a conference, I have only done that once.  Middle School A ("varsity") softball game and the coach was already mad because I had tossed out several pieces of his equipment before the game (cracked bats, helmets with facemasks not properly attached, and a catcher's helmet that was missing pieces; it was a few years back when we were required to do equipment checks before the game).  He already had a small history with me -- I had his travel team a few times and I wouldn't let him stand right next to third base with his runner and then jump off with her at the pitch release.  I'm just mean.

Anyway ... with the third batter of the game, he started walking half way down the line, having the hitter step out and take a couple of steps toward him, and held up the game as he went through several lines of code.  The second time she went to step out, I instructed her to stay in the batter's box.  She did.  He got mad.

The next pitch he walked further down and told her to step out.  She did.  I warned him he was delaying the game and the next time it would be a conference if he came towards the plate and she left the box.  She stepped back in.

The next pitch ... yep.  He walked up, she stepped out.  I called, "Time!"  I noted the conference on my scorecard and waited till they were done.  "That's your offensive conference for the inning, coach."

Grumble, yell, grumble, grumble.

The next pitch he yells for the batter to step out and come to him.  She steps out.  "Time!  That's a strike on the batter!"

Now he comes storming up the line.  "What was that?"

"Coach, you were warned about delaying the game.  You chose to keep doing it.  You used your offensive conference.  If the batter leaves the box or isn't here and ready, the penalty is a strike."

Coach: "What if I need another conference?"

Me: "The game is over."

Coach: "You're making that up!"

Me: "No, sir.  I have to deny the request, by rule.  While there is not a penalty specifically for that, there is a penalty for refusing to continue play, continuing to delay the game, and disobeying an umpire after you have been warned.  Do you want that conference?"

He was well behaved the rest of the game.

[Mudisfun]

On 3/3/2023 at 3:03 PM, The Man in Blue said:

 

 

 I'm just mean.

 

Spoken like a true umpire. I love it!

[beerguy55]

On 3/1/2023 at 10:59 PM, Guest Martin Dahl said:

I finally questioned the pace of play from the stands and urged my kid to throw a pitch anyway

Great job Dad.  Have your kid throw a pitch when the batter clearly isn't ready...what if your kid misses and hits the batter in the head...great parenting there.

 

On 3/1/2023 at 10:59 PM, Guest Martin Dahl said:

What's the proper way for my fireballer to fight this delay tactic the next time we play these clowns?

Teach your kid to handle adversity, and learn proper mechanics to pitch.

 

 

[ErichKeane]

I had a similar problem in a game (didn't walk down the line, but gave a 5 digit number that took AGES for the batter to figure out) that was getting worse as the game went on last spring.  I managed it most of the game by telling the batter to get into the box if it took more than a few seconds, and they listened.  Coach gave up on the numbers for most of the game.

He started back up at the end of the game, and I told the coach that I'd have to start calling strikes if his players didn't get in the box.  He 'dared' me to do it.  Unfortunately I was a green-Blue at the time (hah!) and wasn't confident enough in my knowledge of the exceptions in NFHS 7-3-1 to call it, so I didn't for the next 1/2 inning, after which we ended the game due to darkness.

I've since made myself VERY familiar with that rule, and hope I end up getting that coach again this spring.

[The Man in Blue]

5 hours ago, ErichKeane said:

I managed it most of the game by telling the batter to get into the box if it took more than a few seconds, and they listened.  Coach gave up on the numbers for most of the game.

 

Did you manage it if you had to do it the whole game?  Just poking a little here ... how many times do you let it happen before you shut it down?  

[ErichKeane]

10 minutes ago, The Man in Blue said:

 

Did you manage it if you had to do it the whole game?  Just poking a little here ... how many times do you let it happen before you shut it down?  

You're absolutely right, I didn't 'manage', though I kept the game from taking TOO long... Probably two innings of telling nearly every batter 1-2x before they "got it" until the ~6th when he started out again.  I let it go a LONG time and don't think I ever "shut it down". In my defense, it was about my 4th game behind the plate at all, so I was a bit timid.  Now ~75+ games back there, I would shut it down way quicker.  3rd batter would have gotten a called strike.

[The Man in Blue]

4th game in?  I'm just proud you were aware of it at that point!  😁

[BrainFreeze]

On 3/7/2023 at 2:46 PM, ErichKeane said:

I told the coach that I'd have to start calling strikes if his players didn't get in the box.  He 'dared' me to do it. 

Buh-bye.

[ErichKeane]

2 minutes ago, BrainFreeze said:

Buh-bye.

It took me a horrifyingly long time to toss my first coach.  I'm still not wonderful about controlling coaches, but I'm getting way better.  I only did a little more than 100 games last year, but I believe I'm way better than I was!

[beerguy55]

1 hour ago, ErichKeane said:

It took me a horrifyingly long time to toss my first coach.  I'm still not wonderful about controlling coaches, but I'm getting way better.  I only did a little more than 100 games last year, but I believe I'm way better than I was!

It's kind of like the guys who came sniffing around the house when my daughter hit her teens - you only need to kill one...after that word gets around.

[ErichKeane]

4 hours ago, beerguy55 said:

It's kind of like the guys who came sniffing around the house when my daughter hit her teens - you only need to kill one...after that word gets around.

Well, my first ejection promised to sue me and the tournament company for defamation, then threatened to 'ruin' the site director.  3 hours of having to watch his team from 1/2 mile away (kicked out of even the parking lot!) was begging to come back in and apologize to me!  Site director told him he was done for the weekend, but would pass on his apology.  He lost his mind when I wouldn't call strikes with his catcher setup with the glove in the opposite batters box (from his perspective on the side, he didn't see out/in), and I tossed him after letting him go way too long.  SD kicked him for the weekend.  I haven't seen him since, but apparently others are telling the story (and the game of telephone is making it bigger each month I hear about it again!).

[BLarson]

On 3/16/2023 at 9:31 PM, ErichKeane said:

 He lost his mind when I wouldn't call strikes with his catcher setup with the glove in the opposite batters box (from his perspective on the side, he didn't see out/in),

I had the same thing happen last weekend...of course it was his son pitching.

[Velho]

45 minutes ago, BLarson said:

I had the same thing happen last weekend...of course it was his son pitching.

I love playing the game of "which kid is the coach's son". Always seems to be the one which they express excessive adoration or ruthless criticism. 

[ErichKeane]

4 hours ago, Velho said:

I love playing the game of "which kid is the coach's son". Always seems to be the one which they express excessive adoration or ruthless criticism. 

Yeah, seems like there is no middle ground.  Either it is a long-term trauma that the kid will spend years in therapy about, or they spoil their kid rotten on the field.

[834k3r]

On 3/2/2023 at 5:59 PM, The Man in Blue said:

Not sure what rule set you were playing under, but NFHS prescribes 20 seconds for the batter to be ready.  Then, as @maven said, start calling strikes.  I think we may get more awareness on this as the effects from MLB trickle down. 

Shame on the umpire for allowing it to go on.

Had a similar situation as the OP last night, but for a different reason. Freshman teams. VT (at bat) was so slow to getting it together no one had a helmet on or bat in their hands until after the pitcher's done with his 5 pitches. PU (I was BU) takes his position behind the catcher and calls "play." Pitcher's not sure what to do, so the umpire points at the plate and says again "Play ball." Still nothing from the VT dugout. Pitcher throws a pitch, middle-middle. At that point, the batter runs out of the dugout and takes his position in the box. Didn't have a problem with either team for the rest of the game.

The second game, I did have to tell a couple of the batters to get back in the box, but it wasn't nearly as bad as the first game.

Point is, we as umpires control the pace of the game. We complain (pointing the finger at myself here too) about long games, but are too easily accepting of the 15-20 second delays between each pitch. Those add up very quickly to significant delays.

[aaluck]

I'm very big on getting them back in the box.  Especially if we have what's going on in the OP.  It has become terrible.  3-0 count and we have 1) the coach find one of probably 10 take combos on his band/chart, 2) yell a number combo and 3) the players read a chart to know to take the pitch?  I'm saying "in the box" and he is frantically trying to read the chart, with his bat between his legs to get to the wrist band.  Its a sh+t show!!!

I'm curious @beerguy55what happened to a key and the sign?  Why these wristbands?  Are high school coaches actually stealing signs, are they that smart (no offense but I haven't come across any)?

I'm even seeing the "number/wristband" on pitches now, instead of the crazy face touching signals, which take two seconds. 

[The Man in Blue]

4 hours ago, aaluck said:

I'm curious @beerguy55what happened to a key and the sign?  Why these wristbands?  Are high school coaches actually stealing signs, are they that smart (no offense but I haven't come across any)?

I'm even seeing the "number/wristband" on pitches now, instead of the crazy face touching signals, which take two seconds. 

 

I can't sell you a "key and sign."  🤑

Honestly, it comes down to the fact that the kid no longer has to actually memorize or remember anything (which they are nearly incapable of anyway -- and I say that as a teacher).  The complexity of the system is overdone.

While the wrist card system is very common in softball, tonight was the first time I had seen a baseball pitcher using a wrist card.  Waiting for a batter or coach to complain about the white card in it ...