TROUBLE WITH GETTING PAID FOR MY SERVICES

[Guest I DON'T WORK FOR FREE]

I am an official in NC. I have a problem with getting paid in a timely manner. Is there anything I can do? Or any regulations that can protect me from having to basically beg for my money?

[Jimurray]

Just now, Guest I DON'T WORK FOR FREE said:

I am an official in NC. I have a problem with getting paid in a timely manner. Is there anything I can do? Or any regulations that can protect me from having to basically beg for my money?

Texas UIL has penalties for schools that don't pay within the required time although most of us work with the school and don't involve UIL. But, your NJ association should be able to give what their procedure is if a school doesn't pay or is late paying. 

[noumpere]

Different areas, different levels, different organizations all pay differently.  Know what the payment rules are before you accept the assignment and don't work for those that don't meet your expectations.

[Velho]

A lot of the things we use in umpiring don't apply just to games. The one that comes to mind here is IAWE.

Ignore - They didn't pay you promptly the first time: Ok, people are human. Let it slide.

Acknowledge - Happens again: You need to say something. Set (and hopefully get agreement) on your expectations.

Warn - They fail to meet the agreement: Have an "if...then..." conversation. Same as you do on the field - say it and be prepared to do it. Don't get into the empty (and endless) warning trap.

This can, and likely should, include discussing with the coaches and AD's. They are either the root issue (not paying the association on time) or will be unhappy with their vendor (the association) since the schools are paying on time but the association is fooling around.

Also a good point. 

Eject - Eject yourself from the situation. Silently by withdrawing and going to another association, explicitly by rejecting assignments, or in dramatic fashion if you want to go there. Dramatic could include emailing coaches/AD ahead of time and then showing up at a game to tell the coaches you aren't working today because you are unpaid for the last x-games. Having told them the issue previously, they shouldn't be surprised.

In the end, it's like anything else. Who has the leverage, who is willing to bend, and who is willing to walk away.

[SH0102]

46 minutes ago, Velho said:

Dramatic could include emailing coaches/AD ahead of time and then showing up at a game to tell the coaches you aren't working today because you are unpaid for the last x-games

Please only do this if you are walking away from umpiring forever, as this would be career suicide.

Dont punish the coaches and kids because someone in the athletics office doesn’t process in a timely fashion.

My question is how long are you waiting before posting this?  Some schools pay once a month (their teachers and everyone else), some twice a month (every 15 days), some schools are on a 2 week (or month) delay.  As a teacher once I started in august but didn’t get a full paycheck until November. They paid once a month at this district and we’re a month behind in pay cycle. So check on Sept 1 was for July (wasn’t working), check on October 1 was for August (about a week and a half pay), finally in November I got a full check.  Sucked until I switched districts and got payroll checks for another 2 months on the back end.

Point is, they process bills when they process bills. if the district pays employees once a month, they aren’t going to rush to pay you next week bc you umpired a freshman baseball game.  If you worked game early in cycle, you have to wait until end of cycle to be processed, then usually some time to get issued (many schools process on one Friday and pay goes out the next)

Is it possible they are stiffing you? Of course, but likely you are expecting payment within a week or two when that isn’t realistic many times.

In college we are told to wait a month before inquiring, for that very reason, no one goes more than a month without a pay cycle, so after a month, it is acceptable to inquire.

[Velho]

1 hour ago, SH0102 said:

1 hour ago, Velho said:

Dramatic could include emailing coaches/AD ahead of time and then showing up at a game to tell the coaches you aren't working today because you are unpaid for the last x-games

Please only do this if you are walking away from umpiring forever, as this would be career suicide.

Thanks @SH0102 I'd only consider that after the prior steps - which includes aligning on expectations of when you'll be paid. 

We could debate career suicide or not (not that we need to). Leaving a particularly bad organizations can be a career assist. 

1 hour ago, Velho said:

Also a good point. 

I see I failed and accidentally deleted my point here: This is a good point to talk to other umpires and see if the association is consistently not meeting their commitment on when you will get paid. This will help you figure out if it is systemic with the association.

[The Man in Blue]

Guest, a little more information would be helpful here.  Are we talking about a school, an organization, or just independent teams?  With a little more detail we might be able to provide better guidance.  How long have you been waiting and what was the initial agreement?

Keep in mind every area is going to differ as state laws may be different.

My experiences:

Middle school/high school: Check is waiting for you at the plate meeting or before you reach the field.  A few times I’ve been a last minute fill-in or something happened that they had to mail me a check (or I picked it up a few days later).

College: I’ve only had a couple of games, but they took a LONG time (30+ days) to pay by check.

Local league: Typically has a set pay schedule (weekly or every other week); pays by check or direct deposit.

Local tournaments: Pay should be ready for you no later than your last game of the tournament.  Cash or check.  Occasionally I run across a “cash at the plate” tournament where the coaches pay you each game.  If there is a change in your number of games, some leeway should be granted.

Independent teams/“pick up” games: agree on pay process and amount when accepting the contract.  Typically pay at the plate meeting.

[The Man in Blue]

11 hours ago, SH0102 said:

Please only do this if you are walking away from umpiring forever, as this would be career suicide.

Dont punish the coaches and kids because someone in the athletics office doesn’t process in a timely fashion.

My question is how long are you waiting before posting this?  Some schools pay once a month (their teachers and everyone else), some twice a month (every 15 days), some schools are on a 2 week (or month) delay.  As a teacher once I started in august but didn’t get a full paycheck until November. They paid once a month at this district and we’re a month behind in pay cycle. So check on Sept 1 was for July (wasn’t working), check on October 1 was for August (about a week and a half pay), finally in November I got a full check.  Sucked until I switched districts and got payroll checks for another 2 months on the back end.

Point is, they process bills when they process bills. if the district pays employees once a month, they aren’t going to rush to pay you next week bc you umpired a freshman baseball game.  If you worked game early in cycle, you have to wait until end of cycle to be processed, then usually some time to get issued (many schools process on one Friday and pay goes out the next)

Is it possible they are stiffing you? Of course, but likely you are expecting payment within a week or two when that isn’t realistic many times.

In college we are told to wait a month before inquiring, for that very reason, no one goes more than a month without a pay cycle, so after a month, it is acceptable to inquire.

Employee payroll and paying vendors are two very different things. Don’t base your vendor pay on employee pay.  

[mark38090]

I used to do games for one group that was taking 5 or so weeks to pay. I found another league that pays at the end of the night and never looked back. 

[Catch18]

Dramatic could include emailing coaches/AD ahead of time and then showing up at a game to tell the coaches you aren't working today because you are unpaid for the last x-games.

This has to be one of the most colossally stupid umpire ideas I’ve ever read on this site.

Get a clue.

[JonnyCat]

35 minutes ago, Catch18 said:

 

This has to be one of the most colossally stupid umpire ideas I’ve ever read on this site.

Get a clue.

 

Colossally stupid? Maybe, but I actually think it would be quite funny. I mean it's the height of pettiness, signing up for a game and then showing up to tell the managers you aren't working the game because you haven't been paid for prior games. You could even do it at the plate meeting. That's like George Costanza legendary status right there.

[Velho]

44 minutes ago, Catch18 said:

This has to be one of the most colossally stupid umpire ideas I’ve ever read on this site.

Get a clue.

Take it down a notch @Catch18. 

Besides, it's not an umpiring idea. It's a business tactic. It wouldn't even be a thought if you're umpiring for free or are indifferent to if/when you get paid.

 

 

 

[beerguy55]

13 hours ago, Catch18 said:

 

This has to be one of the most colossally stupid umpire ideas I’ve ever read on this site.

Get a clue.

 

What does it have to do with umpires?  What would you do with any job where you haven't been paid, in the agreed/expected timeline, for services rendered?   You do what you can to apply leverage, especially if said debtor is non-responsive, non-committal, or continually misses deadlines.   That can include refusing to do future work...it can also include making them feel some kind of pain...or spreading the word.  This does all three.   I know people will want to be sue-happy here, but court should be the last resort.   As one of Italian heritage, I could also suggest  a "collection agency" but that might be a bit over the top...Cousin Guido has better things to do.

[The Man in Blue]

@Velho's idea is not colossally stupid, but I wouldn't jump to it right away.  If it is a team/org/school I have a good relationship with, I am going to work with them to get it resolved.  That said, I am not going to go more than two games without a resolution.

While I wouldn't show up and then refuse to do the game, I would have no issue with calling ahead of time (don't wait till that day) and giving a head's up.  "Hey, Athletic Director/Coach/etc., I have a contract for the upcoming game.  I still haven't been paid for the last contract, will you have payment for both at the game?"

If I've gone two games without being paid, the conversation may be more like: "I hate to do this, but I still haven't been paid for the last couple of games.  I need to know how this is going be resolved before I can work another one."

Keep in mind, the person you are contacting may or may not be the right person and may or may not even be aware of the situation.  Also, if you aren't getting resolution and there is a "next step", don't be afraid to take it.  If the coach isn't getting results, contact the AD.  If the AD isn't getting results, contact the principal or superintendent.  Whatever route, be graceful about it.  Mistakes do happen.   

 

[ArchAngel72]

Heh my local league cuts me a check after like 2 weeks and  hunts me down to hand it to me.

 

the other non local league the treasurer asked me if I could do weekly I said I would prefer right after the game if that is ok. He said yes we tried check then one "disappeared" from under the rock he left it at. No worries he paypal'd me that night and that is how its been since.  This by far has been my favorite and best way for payment.  I text Treasurer. Hey its me I worked the Xpm Major game today.

20 min or so he texts back I will send it asap and within 2 hours ( usually ) its in my account

 

[Jimurray]

1 minute ago, ArchAngel72 said:

Heh my local league cuts me a check after like 2 weeks and  hunts me down to hand it to me.

 

the other non local league the treasurer asked me if I could do weekly I said I would prefer right after the game if that is ok. He said yes we tried check then one "disappeared" from under the rock he left it at. No worries he paypal'd me that night and that is how its been since.  This by far has been my favorite and best way for payment.  I text Treasurer. Hey its me I worked the Xpm Major game today.

20 min or so he texts back I will send it asap and within 2 hours ( usually ) its in my account

 

You might want to revisit using Paypal this year. You might get a 1099 from them year end that might be duplicated if the league sends you one also.

[ArchAngel72]

1 minute ago, Jimurray said:

You might want to revisit using Paypal this year. You might get a 1099 from them year end that might be duplicated if the league sends you one also.

Its all on the "friends and family" side of it with no fees so I doubt it.  But meh If they 1099 me I will change it next year.

I am not too worried about it I have about 3k in receipts for work deductions on it this year.

 

[SeeingEyeDog]

On 5/31/2022 at 9:48 AM, beerguy55 said:

What does it have to do with umpires?  What would you do with any job where you haven't been paid, in the agreed/expected timeline, for services rendered?   You do what you can to apply leverage, especially if said debtor is non-responsive, non-committal, or continually misses deadlines.   That can include refusing to do future work...it can also include making them feel some kind of pain...or spreading the word.  This does all three.   I know people will want to be sue-happy here, but court should be the last resort.   As one of Italian heritage, I could also suggest  a "collection agency" but that might be a bit over the top...Cousin Guido has better things to do.

Heyyyyyyy...nice baseball field ya' got here...be a shame if ahhhh...something happened to it, know what I mean?

~Dawg

[The Man in Blue]

So ... I think I jinxed myself with this thread.

The last two tournaments I have worked have been tournaments I was excited to work.  Both were higher level and were tournaments I traveled (significantly) for.  One paid VERY well, one paid fairly well.

For both of them, I ran into issues getting paid.  It wasn't that I thought they were going to stiff me, but in both cases they wanted to use electronic payment methods (e.g., Zelle, Venmo, Cashapp) that backfired on them.  It was a litany of "this service is acting up" and "I hit my daily/weekly/monthly limit."

One ended up mailing me a check that took two weeks to arrive.  The other slapped together partial payment electronically (for which I had to download and sign up for a new service) and a check that is in the mail.

The common element in these was a tournament writing a single check to the assignor and the assignor divvying up the individual payments.  I had not run into this before ... is it more common than I know?

[wolfe_man]

7 hours ago, The Man in Blue said:

The common element in these was a tournament writing a single check to the assignor and the assignor divvying up the individual payments.  I had not run into this before ... is it more common than I know?

Man, I'm sorry you're having troubled getting paid, that's terrible.

FWIW, my assignors and the TD have paid me the last several tournaments I've been in here in Central OH.  All paid promptly (day after tournament ends for two of the tourneys or in-cash as I left the field for the day for the games I worked).  The electronic pay for the two tournaments was through Arbiter. 

To answer your question, I think it is common (in my area) for the TD to pay the assignor, who then pays his umpires.

[ArchAngel72]

3 hours ago, wolfe_man said:

Man, I'm sorry you're having troubled getting paid, that's terrible.

FWIW, my assignors and the TD have paid me the last several tournaments I've been in here in Central OH.  All paid promptly (day after tournament ends for two of the tourneys or in-cash as I left the field for the day for the games I worked).  The electronic pay for the two tournaments was through Arbiter. 

To answer your question, I think it is common (in my area) for the TD to pay the assignor, who then pays his umpires.

 

Now having jumped into a few other towns around my home base to help out do some round robin pool play stuff it was always the TD come running down from the booth after the game with a handful of cash for us umpires.

I do honestly feel odd about that approach.  Something about being paid like that after a game always makes me feel like I was doing some back alley deal.

Its like this. wait for us as a crew to find the snack bar and pay us there. and also direct that action prior to the game start.

Just looks better to me. 

[The Man in Blue]

@wolfe_man that is the question I was looking for some input on (and doing some pointless venting).  I have always either been paid by the TD/org on site, a mailed check from the org, or coaches at the plate (that's the one that makes me feel weird @ArchAngel72).  These are the first times I have run into the assignor playing the banker at the board game.  I don't think anything nefarious is going on; I just think it looks bad, especially given the level of professionalism that is expected from us.

I guess my thing is this ... I appreciate the effort to pay electronically to make it quicker, but communicate my options with me in advance and let me know it is possible that I may not see payment for a few days because you can only pay out X number of dollars per day.  I guess I need to start asking this up front if I am going to be doing more traveling. 

Hell, I honestly think you should have that planned out in advance if you are going to do it though.  I can pay out $1,000 today, so it is going to Joe, Antoine, and Crazy Jimmy; on Tuesday I will catch Mary, Mitchell, and that crack head guy that Crazy Jimmy brought with him.  I don't mind the delay as long as I am aware of it.  

This is just me and technology though -- don't tell me it is going to make things quicker and easier when it complicates them and slows them down for everybody else.  

[834k3r]

11 hours ago, The Man in Blue said:

The common element in these was a tournament writing a single check to the assignor and the assignor divvying up the individual payments.  I had not run into this before ... is it more common than I know?

My last tournament was like this, with the tournament UIC meeting us after the championship game. Felt like a bit of a drug deal, behind our trucks in the parking lot.

The "season" games leading up to the tournament led to a bit of an awkward situation. First game of the tournament following the "season," and the TD (the manager of one of the teams) at the plate meeting says "I have some cash for you." Awkward situation for sure.

[wolfe_man]

36 minutes ago, The Man in Blue said:

I have always either been paid by the TD/org on site, a mailed check from the org, or coaches at the plate (that's the one that makes me feel weird @ArchAngel72). 

 

↑  Amen. 

I can never quite get comfortable taking cash from the home coach at the plate prior to a game.  It just feels like I'm taking a bribe and if any calls go their way, I expect to hear it from the visiting team's parents and coaches.  "Oh, now we know why he was paying you Blue!" 

It's never happened, but still feels wrong to me.  The optics are very bad.

[aaluck]

I may be wrong, but I'm assuming that this is not the high school level.  Probably summer ball/travel/etc.  It is not unusual.

[Catch18]

10 years working in a large city rec & parks dept, also running youth travel tourneys. As TD, I would pay our UIC no later than Wednesday for the upcoming weekend tourney. One single deposit that included game fees and his assigning fees. He wrote checks to guys and passed them out throughout the weekend, usually Sunday, unless you only worked Sat for him.

With some tourneys I’ve umpired, it’s all manner of systems. Arbiter pay (sometimes next day, sometimes next week), checks in the mail, cash in the lot by TD. Usually the smaller, more local you get, it’s closer in method to a back alley deal.

Just ask the UIC what’s the deal. It’s a reasonable question on when you expect to get paid.