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Ground rule double?? -Again?

Thunderheads

By Thunderheads
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maven
maven

I suspect that the conversation (after the whinging about whether it was foul) went something like this (I saw GD shaking his head, too):   Melvin: that's fan interference! GD: right Melvin: so it

mstaylor
mstaylor

The announcers saw him shake his head no and assumed he was saying there was no interference when actually Melvin was asking if it the runner was supposed to go back to third. Just because the umpires

Mike Prince
Mike Prince

So are Ray Fosse and Glen Kuiper!

maven

maven

Posted
Posted

It's fun to hear the booth crew struggle. Given some of the recent spec/INT calls, you'd think the rule would be more widely known by now. :(

Thunderheads

Thunderheads

Posted
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Posted

It's fun to hear the booth crew struggle. Given some of the recent spec/INT calls, you'd think the rule would be more widely known by now. :(

what do you mean?

I know why they were confused

maven

maven

Posted
Posted

 

It's fun to hear the booth crew struggle. Given some of the recent spec/INT calls, you'd think the rule would be more widely known by now. :(

what do you mean?

I know why they were confused

 

 

The "penalty" for spec/INT is NOT a 2 base award. OBR 3.16 ;)

Mike Prince

Mike Prince

Posted
Posted

Well Gerry still missed it because he didn't kill it at the point of interference as stated in 3.16.

 

I think it was funny that Melvin went first to PU arguing fair/foul and then to GD for placing the runner on 3B when he didn't get what he wanted at home plate.  Sort of like the "lets make a deal/pick a rule" bargaining that we see from lower-level coaches.

Thunderheads

Thunderheads

Posted
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Posted

Well Gerry still missed it because he didn't kill it at the point of interference as stated in 3.16.

 

I think it was funny that Melvin went first to PU arguing fair/foul and then to GD for placing the runner on 3B when he didn't get what he wanted at home plate.  Sort of like the "lets make a deal/pick a rule" bargaining that we see from lower-level coaches.

was it called at all?  I couldn't tell from the video :shrug:

Mike Prince

Mike Prince

Posted
Posted

I couldn't either.  Just saying that even if he had the INT the crew is free to place runners where they thought they would be absent the INT.  I still think he missed the whole thing, if I had to guess he got fooled by the bullpen mound and thought that kicked the ball up, not the fan.

 

The whole discussion on the video really centered around R1 scoring vs.being placed on 3B, which isn't an absolute under 3.16

Thunderheads

Thunderheads

Posted
  • Author
Posted

I couldn't either. Just saying that even if he had the INT the crew is free to place runners where they thought they would be absent the INT. I still think he missed the whole thing, if I had to guess he got fooled by the bullpen mound and thought that kicked the ball up, not the fan.

The whole discussion on the video really centered around R1 scoring vs.being placed on 3B, which isn't an absolute under 3.16

Ahhhh .....yup, I see .....

Jeff - via Tapatalk

Umpire in Chief

Umpire in Chief

Posted
Posted

Yes, the umpires can use their judgement. 

 

Now, did they actually kill the ball? We can't see in the video. The box score reads:

 

Andres Torres hits a ground-rule double (10) on a ground ball down the left-field line, on fan interference. Gregor Blanco scores.

 

The announcers on this are among the worst.  :FIRE:

jkhel

jkhel

Posted
Posted

Gerry went out with the ball and did kill it right as it was touched... the runner who was being sent by third base coach and was almost at third at the time the ball was killed would have scored with no problem / he is pretty quick. Melvin wanted it to be a ground rule double??? and Knight and Davis both told him the same thing... spectator interfer. and he would have scored! Good call by the crew!

HeadHunterLA

HeadHunterLA

Posted
Posted

Gerry went out with the ball and did kill it right as it was touched... the runner who was being sent by third base coach and was almost at third at the time the ball was killed would have scored with no problem / he is pretty quick. Melvin wanted it to be a ground rule double??? and Knight and Davis both told him the same thing... spectator interfer. and he would have scored! Good call by the crew!

 

Really???  Did you actually watch the video?  None of what you described happened.

dumbdumb

dumbdumb

Posted
Posted

OK, we have seen all those views from behind the 1BLE, now let's see that camera over on the 3rdBLE but a little up towards the 1st base dugout. Looks like that ball bounces right on the chalk in front of 3rd base, where even by physics it had to have caught a piece of the base. Good call on the F/F. Bad part is that to get out of the way and jump, GD lifts both arms up, which most of us do, and the motion is pretty much the same as the motion we use to call foul ball just without the jump. Therefor, many think the ump is calling foul and then faint when he points fair again.

 

Check out :39-:40.   

Then check out the obvious spectator interference and all runners go to the base that in the umpires judgement the runner(s) would have reached had there been no spectator interference. Plate umpire usually helps in the placement of runners since 3BU had to turn back to the play and follow the ball.

 

 

http://wapc.mlb.com/play/?content_id=27569891

maven

maven

Posted
Posted

Glen Kuiper and Ray Fosse pulled a Hawk Harrelson here...

 

 

Looks like big brother Duane, who works for the Giants, got the better end of the deal in that game. :)

Richvee

Richvee

Posted
Posted

Haha....Hawk..."Brinkman gives the ground rule double signal" :shakehead:  :jerkit:  What a moron.

Richvee

Richvee

Posted
Posted

We all know awarding more than 2 bases on these plays is extremely rare, and when more than 2 baes are awarded, we ned to explain it to the DC. There's no way in this sitch GD called Spec int.  If in fact he did, he would have had to explain to Melvin why he was awarding R1 home. It's obvious Melvin asked if there was spec int and GD's answer was plainly, No. And PU had nothing as well. 

Lindsay

Lindsay

Posted
Posted

That may be plausible if the official scorer did not rule the play spectator interference. Rule 10.01(b)(1) prohibits the scorer from making any decision "that conflicts with an umpire's decision." Therefore, if an umpire did not rule spectator interference, the scorer would be unable to as well. Furthermore, B1 winds up at third base but is ordered back to second.

 

Davis, to a pool reporter post-game:

 

"The ball went over the bag, I called it fair, there was spectator interference, whenever there is spectator interference you award the runners the bases you feel they would have had had there not been interference. Brian (Knight) basically made the decision because he’s the home plate ump and he has the whole field in his perspective, so he made the decision as to whether the runners would score and if any of the other umpires have anything different on the field then we would get together if we need to. But we were all pretty sure that was the case."

 

And Knight: "I warned [Hale] a couple times to stop yelling at me and he did not heed my warning and he was ejected."

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Richvee

Richvee

Posted
Posted

Hmmm. I stand corrected. Sure doesn't look like that's what GD is explaining to Melvin on the field. 

JHSump

JHSump

Posted
Posted

Very interesting.

 

Maybe it's time for a "Baseball Rule Myths" session for the announcers.  And maybe the announcers should be instructed to not immediately assume the umpires are blind/wrong/incompetent anytime something happens that they don't understand.  Someone tell Torre to get on it.

  • Like 1
maven

maven

Posted
Posted

Hmmm. I stand corrected. Sure doesn't look like that's what GD is explaining to Melvin on the field. 

 

I suspect that the conversation (after the whinging about whether it was foul) went something like this (I saw GD shaking his head, too):

 

Melvin: that's fan interference!

GD: right

Melvin: so it's a ground rule double!

GD: no

Melvin: well, they get 2 bases!

GD: no, we have to put them where they would have ended up

Melvin: so they get 2 bases?

GD: no...

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