Davis v. Smitty v. Honigs pant battle royal

[catsbackr]

OK, I got the pants Friday.  You guys were right!  These pants are sweet!  (And, they fit perfectly).

[BT_Blue]

51 minutes ago, catsbackr said:

OK, I got the pants Friday.  You guys were right!  These pants are sweet!

Told you. I only wish it had the silicone permanent crease.

[Stk004]

The longevity of this thread has been remarkable. 

After reading through this whole thread, because I would rather read about pants than do my homework, what's the difference between the GD Poly-Wool and their "charcoal" 100%polyester pants? More specifically, is there a difference in color/feel/overall look between the two materials? 

[BT_Blue]

16 minutes ago, Stk004 said:

The longevity of this thread has been remarkable. 

After reading through this whole thread, because I would rather read about pants than do my homework, what's the difference between the GD Poly-Wool and their "charcoal" 100%polyester pants? More specifically, is there a difference in color/feel/overall look between the two materials? 

The color of the normal Davis pants are more green than a normal pair of Heather or Charcoal pants. I can't really comment on the feel of the material. But I imagine it is closer to the standard Honigs (or whatever) pants feel.

Polywool is a combination of the two. In the case of the Honigs and Smitty. That combo is 75% polyester and 25% wool. The Davis-by-Fechheimer are 80-20 split.

Honigs used to be the standard bearer up until last year when they stopped using a very old US suit company called Hardwicks (I believe they filed bankruptcy) and started using some company out of Mexico. The quality went way down but the prices stayed the same. These are now sold under the numbers PBS 3 and 4.

Two years ago, Gerry Davis started working with Fechheimer (who used to be THE umpire pants for many years) on a polywool pant to rival and fill the premium spot that Honigs once had. I purchased a pair of plate and base pants this off season. I can tell you they are every bit as good as the old Honigs polywool pants (PBS1 and 2).

It comes with a nice expandable waistband. The only down side I think is that it does not come with the permanent crease (a line of silicon down the front and back of the leg). But I feel that any seamstress worth their salt should be able to handle this when you bring it in to get hemmed.

[Jimurray]

11 hours ago, Stk004 said:

The longevity of this thread has been remarkable. 

After reading through this whole thread, because I would rather read about pants than do my homework, what's the difference between the GD Poly-Wool and their "charcoal" 100%polyester pants? More specifically, is there a difference in color/feel/overall look between the two materials? 

People will notice if you are in polywool and your partner is in poly. I know of one assignor that requires only polywool.

[BT_Blue]

17 hours ago, Jimurray said:

People will notice if you are in polywool and your partner is in poly. I know of one assignor that requires only polywool.

I know that all the college associations here on the west coast require polywool.

[kylejt]

On 12/27/2016 at 8:59 PM, BT_Blue said:

The color of the normal Davis pants are more green than a normal pair of Heather or Charcoal pants. I can't really comment on the feel of the material. But I imagine it is closer to the standard Honigs (or whatever) pants feel.

 

I've got a couple pair of the poly Davis pants, buried deep in my closet. The feel is like no other umpire pants. They're rough, and plasticy.The material is very stout, yet thin. They do seem to hold up quite well, and some folks really like them. You can throw them in the washer/dryer, and if you pop them out while still warm, they come out at 90-95% of a nicely pressed pair. Very utilitarian.

I keep mine for when I know I'm working with a partner who has nothing else. Or, a little kids game, where I'm working on a knee.

The real trouble is color. They absolutely, positively do not match any other pants on the planet.

 

I'm very glad to hear some of the folks I trust here like the new Davis poly wool.  I'm pretty stocked on Honig's/Hardwicks, but it's good to know I've got Plan B, when the time some comes.

[umpstu]

On 6/20/2016 at 1:16 PM, MadMax said:

Because I'm an athletic guy, with an athletic frame, I heavily favored flat-front pants. My first-ever umpire pants were Dalco heather-greys. I then got the Honig's Ultimates in charcoal, and combo-cut. These gave adequate room for a personal protector, but started to show the... not-so-desirable saggy look while out in the field. As I cut my teeth umpiring in 15-games-per-weekend tournaments, with 15 minute change-overs, combos were a necessity.

I then tried Smitty pants (I don't remember if they were the polywools or not), but hated everything about them. The Expanding waistband was way too complex, and caused the pleat-paunch to be even more accentuated, especially when going in the ready position or HOK. Needless to say, they were promptly returned, and I made do with the Honig's combos. Through this site, I was directed towards Boombah flat fronts, in charcoal and combo-cut. They were perfect... until...

I attended Cooperstown Dreams Park. While the staff there does a remarkable job of laundering all your clothes – for free – this is not a place for tailored pants or expensive jackets. Without knowing the details of the process involved the use of industrial dryers and a heat press recycled from a Conshohocken steel mill, my perfect pants (2 pairs) did two tours through the laundry service, and shrunk. After finding out the process, any time I submitted my pants I had to deliberatively write "NO HEAT NO PRESS" all over the work order.

Returning from CDP, the seamstress I consult managed to redo the seams and hems and put the pants back to approximately where they were. They lasted for another year until I once again returned to CDP and used the laundry service. While this time, explicit postings of "NO HEAT" didn't shrink the pants any further, the detergent they used started a catalytic reaction for when exposed to sunlight, the pants started to fade and turn... purple.

Oh no... I'm that guy!

I muddled through August and into September, wherein I attended the CBUA Showcase in Iowa. In fact, Jason ( @MidAmUmp) actually called me out on my pants and prompted me to get some "real ones". But, with funds lacking and baseball succumbing to the Wisconsin Winter, I had to put off getting new pants until next (this) year. With my Honigs loaned out to a junior umpire who had suffered a catastrophic seam failure, this spring started with the Boombahs limping along, fading to the point where it looked like I had sickly pairs of heather greys. Something radical was needed. I didn't want to invest in polywools just yet because of my concerns of doing tournament baseball in Wisconsin and the punishment that extolls upon our uniforms. So, I ruminated a plan... to (re)dye my pants.

Rit debuted a new formula of dye to apply to polyester! I bought an entire bottle of Charcoal Black and, using an old copper boiling pot, set to it. I boiled the water, added the dye, stirred like a Shakespearean witch (MacBeth), set it to simmer, and then immersed both pairs of pants...

Thirty minutes later, I extracted them, wrung them out and hung them to drip dry over the utility sink. Returning to them 13 hours later (I had to go to work, which sucks), I was astounded – the color was perfect! A nice, uniform, deep charcoal devoid of any splotchiness or clouding. I stuck 'em on, and... oh no. Ohhhhh nooooo. They had shrunk again.

One in particular are no longer wearable (by me, anyway), having shriveled from 36x34 to a palsy 33/34x30... if that. The others just barely survived at 34x33, and I had to use these for a couple of MABL/MSBL games around here, until I finally had to swallow my pride and engineering spirit and purchase actual polywools.

With Honig's over in Ann Arbor, Michigan, I considered getting pants from them, able to try them on and pick them up on my way through to CDP this year. But, as you fellow umpires reported, the Honig's quality has changed and the pants are not as robust as they once were. Then, I had to face the reality that I very likely will not be at CDP this year, so to try out Honigs, I'd have to do the whole shipping and returning headache.

Gerry Davis is located, though, in my backyard (well, big backyard... Appleton is a 2 hour drive from Milwaukee), and based on the feedback several of you have shared – especially @MidAmUmp, @Big_Mac14, @NEAOA, and the Godfather of Style @Mr Ump – I made the drive on a lazy Thursday and tried on a few pairs. I tried out the 36's and 38's. I've been a 34x34 in slacks since I was a high school athlete (okay, I admit, when I was 33, I had a "pudgy year" and my weight swelled up to 235... ironically, this is when I started taking umpiring seriously, motivating me to be more active and that weight started coming off), and am always apprehensive about how new slacks fit. The 36's fit very very well; the 38's were much too generous. The expanding waistband is extremely subtle and sells you on the fit.  The material feels refined and sophisticated. The pleating is done right, not haphazardly, and doesn't create that pudge-paunch I and others dread. I purchased one pair of Plate pants and one pair of Base pants.

My seamstress did them proper justice, and hemmed them exactly where they need to be. My first games with them were this past Saturday in a sweltering 94° Showcase doubleheader, and lemme tell ya... I just have this to say about the pants...

Why didn't I get these sooner?!?!?

I have adequate roominess in them, especially for the personal protector in the plate pants, and they don't feel like chaps. For being wool, they feel remarkably light and the polyester didn't leave me feeling clammy. They didn't snag or pinch on my shinguards. While the plate pants impressed me, the base pants boggled my mind... I had worn combos since I started, and my bodyframe can make combos look good out in the field. I will never, ever be able to wear "skinny" jeans though, despite modern fashion trends all pushing that way (do guys not have shoulders any more?? Good grief!), but the base pants, while noticeably narrower of leg, fit perfectly, allow full range of motion, don't hinder going into the HOK ready stance (which more amateur umpires should be going to in the field), and certainly don't billow in a breeze (which plate and some combo pants do when worn as base pants, which make some guys look like clown... pants).

The Gerry Davis by Fechheimer Polywool Pants, my top-rated pick for umpire apparel. Thanks for reading, yes I know I'm long-winded when it comes to explanations, I could (and should) work for J. Peterman Catalog.

 

Steve talked about you being that guy Saturday I think.  Anyway, thanks for this review.  Has me looking at getting the Gerry Davis slacks now.  Was the waist size true to size or should I go up a size?

[MadMax]

1 hour ago, umpstu said:

Steve talked about you being that guy Saturday I think.  Anyway, thanks for this review.  Has me looking at getting the Gerry Davis slacks now.  Was the waist size true to size or should I go up a size?

Who is Steve, @umpstu??

Size-wise, my waist size of 34 varies with the manufacturer of the pants or slacks. I wear 34's in jeans. Some of my slacks are 34's, some are 35's. I chose 36's in the Honig's, the Boombahs, and finally, the DbF's, and they all fit (at time of purchase) perfectly. You have to keep in mind that you'll be wearing these over 1-2 layers of performance u-wear, compression shorts, and a personal protector, and you will be tucking in at least two shirts (undershirt and primary shirt). 

[umpstu]

8 hours ago, MadMax said:

Who is Steve, @umpstu??

Size-wise, my waist size of 34 varies with the manufacturer of the pants or slacks. I wear 34's in jeans. Some of my slacks are 34's, some are 35's. I chose 36's in the Honig's, the Boombahs, and finally, the DbF's, and they all fit (at time of purchase) perfectly. You have to keep in mind that you'll be wearing these over 1-2 layers of performance u-wear, compression shorts, and a personal protector, and you will be tucking in at least two shirts (undershirt and primary shirt). 

Are you an umpire for the ACCAC?  So size up would be wise, or lose some of my body fat.

[BT_Blue]

I sized up on mine.

[umpstu]

20 minutes ago, BT_Blue said:

I sized up on mine.

When you tried them on did you still feel there was a need to size up?

[BT_Blue]

Yes. I felt going up a size was a good choice. The elastic waist band made it tight enough that it didn't feel like it was going to fall around my ankles. But loose enough that I can comfortably fit shirts and such in.

[Fittske24]

Can someone post pictures of their davis polywools next to their Honigs Polywools? Maybe specifically a picture of the front and back belt loops?

 

Thanks in advance 

[zm1283]

I wear a 34 waist in every pair of pants I have. Both versions of Honigs polywool (new and old), basketball referee pants, jeans, khakis, dress pants, etc. Should I size up with the GD polywools to 36 or will the 34s expand a little if I need room for undergarments? I guess I'm asking if they expand up or down from the stated waist size?

[BT_Blue]

Up.

I sized up a size on mine and I found it fits well.

[jms1425]

With GD's Memorial Day 15% off, I'm thinking about buying some of their polywools. I have their charcoal plate pants, and their combos for wearing on the bases. Honestly, I love these pants. I tried the base pants, but they didn't fit me well because I'm pretty big through the rear and thighs, so I went to the combos. Slimmer below the knee, but roomy through the seat, they fit and feel great.

Here's the issue - there is no "combo" in the polywools (probably for obvious reasons.) I'm wondering if the base PW pants are cut like the "regular" ("poly") base pants, and if so, would a better route for me be to buy an extra pair of plate pants and have the lower legs taken in.

Thoughts?