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Had the almost exact thing happen in a game last week. I was PU. U1 called safe and I'm up the line, probably with my eyes as big as dinner plates looking at my partner. He calls time without the coach having to come out to get the crew together. He tells us that he just F*#Ked up and knows the tag happened. I tell him that I 100% have a tag on the chest of the runner before he reached first. We talk about who is going to do what when we break, with U1 and myself going over to talk to the coach of the offense. U1 signals out and the coach didn't even take a step out to talk to us - he knew we got the call right.

Hint: there is none! Rule 3 Substituting- Coaching- Bench and Field Conduct - Charged Conferences SECTION 3 BENCH AND FIELD CONDUCT ART. 1 . . . A coach, player, substitute, attendant or other bench personnel shall not: i. be outside the designated dugout (bench) or bullpen area if not a batter, runner, on-deck batter, in the coach 's box or one of the nine players on defense; Plus , also under Rule 3, ART. 3 ... Players loosening up to bat shall remain in the area of their team's on-deck circle while the pitcher is warming up. (1-2-3) PENALTY: The umpire shall issue a team warning to the coach of the team involved. The next offender on that team shall be ejected. Seems like there is enough there to get this under control. I didn't rad through it all but we've been here before

I am scheduled to do opposites on same day next week....LL 9-10 first , then a Men's Rec League for a night cap. Will be interesting to see who whines more?

Thank you @834k3r and @Coach Carl for being serious and answering the OP. Otherwise people would just think we're a bunch of quacks.

How did the third baseman miss it? Did he duck?

Did it strike a chicken in the process?

As many of you know in my Swan Song email, I've been doing this for 20 years, with a large gap in between (1996-2009). My last ejection was in 1995, and yesterday was number 2, ... yes, 2, and my first HS EJ. And,.... don't start with "if you only have 2 ejections you've been missing opportunites, you don't manage the game well, ...blah, blah, blah" .... Anyhow ..... bottom 5, 3-2 count, very nice pitch that catches the inside corner. I ring him up as he steps towards first because he thinks it's ball 4. He comes back, picks up his bat, and DRAWS A LINE! I look and think to myself "well, ... there it is!" BOOM! This one was a gift 😆

FED 8-4-2d...I have the runner diving over F2 there and I am calling him out. ~Dawg

So had a play yesterday. NHFS varsity game. no outs, R1 - I'm BU Slow roller toward F4 but he just waited on it. Team is telling F4 to go to 1B but he tries for force out at 2B. F6 is stretched off 2B toward F4 / right field. R1 runs THROUGH 2B as if he was running through 1B on a infield ground ball. I had him out on a bang/bang play. F6 chases down R1 and tags him probably because his brain short circuited from the baserunning technique (or lack there of). By rule, some of you have this as FPSR and no question has to be 2 outs. The B/R was fast and only a couple steps away from 1B. F6 never considered turning a double play, nor was there a chance at it. He was stretched toward RF corner to receive the ball. I asked my PU (who happened to be the #1 ranked umpire in my region the last two years). He acted like I was crazy for even bringing it up. He said don't go looking for calls - there was no interference and he wasn't in the way of anything. I just reiterated that "by rule they have to veer or slide directly into the base or it's FPSR". He got short and told me, no, stop reaching... I actually think I lost credibility in his eyes for even mentioning it. (that's a whole other issue, but it supports my point that in my region, a call like this wouldn't be supported).

Back in Wisconsin, you couldn’t escape “this guy”, even if you willingly took – and were already geared up for – plate! The anecdote is that “plate guy chooses shirt”, right? Nope, not with “this guy”. In one infamous example, I was standing there, fully geared up, ready to finish the ensemble with an umpire shirt (of which, at the time, I had at least 12 different colors/styles) when my BU partner rolled in, parked next to me, got out, made his greeting, “Hrrmph”, and when asked, “Which color ya want me to throw on, Bob?”, replied with, by pulling the faded, salt-encrusted navy shirt out of his trunk, “Navy’s all ya need!”… and started heading to the field!!! This is a direct correlation to the “UIC = PU = god” deification “rule” that NFHS has codified into (their) The Rules. They’ll take PU because they love the power trip they embark on. “My game, my field, growl snarl growl…” They can’t cite or apply a single substantive rule, save the one that enshrines that “UIC’s rulings are final” [paraphrased]. Early in my career, I would be paired with these guys, and it forced me to investigate every positional responsibility, on every play & situation, and be flexible so as to “cover or defer” (explain later). Later in my career, I was purposely paired with these guys, and put on as a BU, expressly to counter-balance their deficiencies. These particular pairings have gotten fewer and rarer… but they do still happen once in a… (oh man, the pun!)… blue moon. 🌙 Ever think this might by design or intention? 🤔 #BlueConspiracies #DogTraining (sorry, couldn’t help it) Here in Arizona, amongst us Vultures (and Friends-of-Vultures), it’s entirely “by feel”. “How ya feelin’ today?” brings an honest answer and assessment. We all know and trust each others’ game management and abilities, almost implicitly. That being said, assigners know this, and will often pair Vultures with either rookies / newbies or “known qualities”, so as to either evaluate & train, or counter-balance said “qualities”. One of my fellow Vultures is known to carry a notebook, recording each time he works with a partner, and what the roles were. He holds guys to it! But, of course, he puts the book away for fellow Vultures. We do have “desert / tournament / tournament-in-the-desert mechanics”, wherein some guys will willingly take plate – either in a one-game “hell stab” or on a 2- to 3- game plate-siege – with the understanding that he won’t be moving much outside of the plate dirt circle. Of course, these aren’t used on sanctioned NFHS, College, or pro games, but I’d be lying if I said we don’t (both U’s) utilize this arrangement on amateur games… when it’s 93° and ↑, or if one umpire has an injury. We get it (down here)… we all need the 💰. Unless my boss has a fixed, specific role assignment, or it’s “my turn”, I usually favor this: If it’s a guy I don’t know, I’ll take Plate because I know and can control the pace of how this game will unfold. If it’s a guy I do know, I’ll take Bases because I really get a chance to “stretch my legs” and move. If doing a multi-game day, I heavily prefer the last game(s) of the day on plate. I can usually “mask” (ha!) the exhaustion, and just focus on the corridor of space between mound & plate circle. I won’t ignore or abort a rotation, but they sure do happen less often than moving about on base, in that context. When partnered with a rookie / newbie, I always dangle the question, “No wrong answer here, which role would you like to do?”, and without fail, the rookie / newbie will light up and reply, “You mean I can work bases??! Oh wow! _X_ number of games, and I haven’t worked bases yet!” … and I know why that is. ‘Cuz all my colleagues see “rookie”, claim seniority, or claim that they’ve been doing nothing but plates, too, and stick the new guy at plate so they can have a “day off” on the bases. 🤨

Men's Rec and it's not even close... ~Dawg

Even though the PU might have broke “procedural protocol” and allowed a dead ball appeal, does that invalidate a Live ball appeal? I’m not condoning it if he did, nor am I campaigning for NCAA (and OBR, by extension) to do dead ball appeals. … although… 🤔 … isn’t video replay review a form of dead ball appeal?

Rule 8-2-6 c. Dead Ball. The dead-ball appeal may be made: 1) Once all runners have completed their advancement and time has been called, a coach or any defensive player, with or without the ball, may make a verbal appeal on a runner missing a base or leaving a base too soon on a caught fly ball. The administering umpire should then make a decision on the play. 2) If the ball has gone out of play, runners must be given the opportunity to complete their base-running responsibilities before the dead-ball appeal can be made.

Lock this thread already. Use chicken wire if you have to.

You don’t have to stretch but you do need to have hands apart and then put them together.

Traditional Defender Mask Play Pack Pro Set with Mask, Accessories & Backpack (force3progear.com) For $127.98: Traditional Defender Mask ($199.95)* Pro Harness ($34.95)* Sun Shield ($29.95)* Bat Backpack ($89.95)* *if purchased individually Use the CODE: BIGSAVE60 Force3 must be comparing promo prices to a @wolfe_man retirement sale

@Murphy25 to answer your question, no that is not a balk. It is a "don't do that". "Time" is the correct call. If the player deliberately continues, then...well...eject. But, ... 10U. So some discretion is probably in order. This exact topic has been discussed in other threads here.

It was called that when I first started umpiring HS baseball more than 30 years ago. Never know anyone who had a problem with that verbiage until you started posting here. And, ducking was "never"allowed (as a way to get out of the requirement) in any of the areas (not that it was many, or particularly widely spread) I officiated. (not to say that some official might not have ruled it that way, but that it was not an appropriate judgment.)

That's a big bowl of bunk. Your state organization's by-laws dictate what is an official contest under their purview. I would bet dollars to donuts your state organization heavily emphasizes that you are an independent contractor. As such, your state organization cannot call you to grill you about a game that is not under their jurisdiction. As for a subpoena in a personal injury case, please explain how an umpire is responsible for an injury beyond allowing unsafe playing conditions. The schools still agreed to contract you, an independent contractor, for their school event - whether that is calling a baseball game or chaperoning prom. Barring any grossly negligent behavior on your part ("No coach! This is not a sanctioned game, so I am not stopping the pitcher from driving nails into the ball! Yes, coach, he can use a broadsword for a bat."), you have no more or less liability than you did 20 minutes ago. You might make the big boys on your state alphabet angry with you, but a judge is not going to say, "Not guilty . . . wait, what? They had eight players? Well, in that case, I sentence you to hang . . . hang . . . HANG!" You may not be covered under your state org's insurance during that game. That's all.

Tell the truth, you were probably like Desmond Doss and thinking "just one more, Lord. Give me just one more." [apologies for my dark humor. Its a slow day.]

In TN I had a coach pushback on the "only 2 kids out swinging". I called him over with my lineup card out and said, "Ok Bob, that is the rule you do not want me to enforce. Now, I am going to walk over and ask Tom what rule he is choosing to not have me enforce today". He cocked his head, turned to the dugout and said "only 2 out guys". Problem solved.

I think it is you that is missing the point. It is obvious, to me at least, that the runner has two options: Legally slide directly into the base or run/slide in a direction away from the defender. If the runner doesn't do either of those things and they are in the vicinity of the base, then they are in violation. It is pretty simple. Running directly at a defender at the base while ducking, isn't one of those things.

I have that the runner "altered the pattern of play", even if he ducked and no contact was made. Interference. FPSR violation. You see it differently?

It wasn't really though. Too many people just stopped reading at "never required to slide" and left it at that. They also thought that the FPSR could only be applied if the runner actually performed a slide. This would/should have been a violation 3 years ago as well.

After much thought, many conversations and exhausting contemplation, the 2024 baseball season will be my umpire swan song. New work responsibilities ( 10-11-12 hours a day sometimes ) .... my own added stress I put on myself to perform and do a good job, the timelines/ deadlines for post-season, the time and grind of the game prep, physically and mentally, the list goes on and on. Do I still love it, ...yes I do, I can't say I don't, but the above takes away from that, and it's become a "chore", and "another job" ... and I'm just tired of feeling that way. I started umpiring in 1990. Took a break after the summer of 1995, and came back to it in 2010, and ... here I am 14 years later (I joined this site in 2009). Not including the canceled season of 2020, that’s 20 years. Yeah ... I'm good. Does it make me sad, ... yes, it does to an extent, but ...at the same time it makes me happy (if that makes sense)! A lot of my burden is self-induced, I know that, but it’s my nature. I’m a people pleaser involved in a job/hobby/craft where it’s IMPOSSIBLE to please everyone, but damnit, I’m going to try **says me shaking my head** 🙄 To everyone I’ve ever umpired with and had umpire conversations with, and to all of those I've learned from on this site ....THANK YOU. What an education this site has been for me over the past 14 years! It’s been a great ride, a great education, and quite a realization as to how much time and effort it takes to be a good official. 20 combined years of doing this and there’s PLENTY more areas where I could improve, but at the end of the day, I know I always gave it my all, and I was always eager to learn and to get better. I was blessed with being able to work a Sate Finals for the MHSAA in 2018, an incredible experience and memory. I was also able to work a showcase double-header last season at Comerica Park with a great partner and friend, Jeff Sandora ( @UmpJeff). To umpire on an MLB field was one of my few ‘umpire bucket list’ items, for sure. I'll still be here on the site, so this will be my avenue to 'remain in the game'! Thanks again to everyone. I’ll never drive by a baseball field again without my heart skipping a beat. Chat soon!

His catcher came out the next inning and said, “Brad was mad on that one.” I told the catcher, “I’ve spent a lot of years thinking I always made Brad mad. Then I learned his secret.” Catcher beat me to the punchline: “He’s like the Hulk. He’s always mad.” 🤣🤣

Kill it before they can advance. Keeps a SH*# house from happening.

The strike is a strike. It is live until the follow through contacts the catcher. Then we have a delayed dead ball for the contact. In OBR, that’s all. In NFHS . . . If it is strike 3, it is strike 3. On the contact, the ball is dead and the batter may not advance if it is U3K. If runners were moving, they are returned to TOP. If it is strike 1 or 2, we have a delayed dead ball upon contact. Was there a play to be made? If so, NFHS now has the batter out and runners returned. If there was no play to be made, dead ball. Reset, play on. Bold/italic = edit correction!

To be clear, in FED this is only if there are runners attempting to advance on the play. No runners on, or no runners advancing, this is simply a strike (dead ball with runners on) like all other codes

We had a similar issue in my neck of the woods but the coaches just wanted to know if they could get the game in. i suggested that we tell them to dress a trainer and have them faint after we pointed play. I think they folded anyway.

This was posted in Ask the Umpire as well. CCS came out with a post on it, and Lindsey said it's an 801(c) situation, but I would contend that it is covered, as least loosely, but the definition of Touch: TOUCH. To touch a player or umpire is to touch any part of his body, or any uniform or equipment worn by him (but not any jewelry (e.g., necklaces, bracelets, etc.) worn by a player). (Touch) Comment: Equipment shall be considered worn by a player or umpire if it is in contact with its intended place on his person. So if the helmet is not in contact with its intended place (his head) on his person, then is HE touching the bag? This is not like a fielder touching a bag with his glove while the ball is in his other hand. In that case, the glove is in contact with its intended place (his hand) on his person. Seems to me that he should've been called out.

Son, if you can't see the ball, you've got the wrong uniform on. Let me get you a navy polo and some grey pants.

If they were half as good as they think they are, they'd be twice as good as they really are.

You don't think that kid's foot in that video is parallel to start? If we're gonna get down to the 1/2 of a degree of angle, I'm allowing it and I'm gonna say he's not exactly parallel every time, every day.

Since @Tborze and @MadMax may have overlooked some of the words in my post, I shall reiterate that "Home plate is 17 inches wide. Use it as a guide like Tim McClelland did in the Pine Tar game and I'd bet you get a similar reaction" Perhaps I should have included the or ?

LL league play, R2, 2 outs. Batter (son of the HC) struck out looking on a ball at the top of the zone to end the inning. As he walked off, he said "that wasn't a strike, dude!" I stared at him as he walked to and entered the dugout. His dad talked to him outside the dugout, told the player it was a strike, and was a strike all game. After the HC met with his team before they took the field defensively, I walked up to the coach and opened my lineup card holder (to make it look like we were discussing the lineup) and told him that his son could get tossed in the future. The HC said "you should have." I said I didn't because he didn't cross any "red lines" (the 3 Ps: personal, profane, prolonged). Rest of the game proceeded without incident. In fact, the HC had his son catch the next inning; player came up to me and apologized. Had the game been FED I probably wouldn't have reacted at all, but I thought it was important to nip the behavior in the bud.

If a coach ever complains about only have 2 batters swinging...I ask him why would we let them do it now...they can't do it in H.S., they can't do in college, and they can't do it in the MLB...so we are teaching them the right way of doing things.

“Time! That’s an illegal slide! You (R1) you’re (already) Out! Batter-Runner? (Points) You’re / He’s Out!” or… “Time! Didn’t veer away! … (as per above 👆🏼)” The real culprit in all of this is Chase Utley, and OBR having to establish the “bona fide slide” rule. In pure OBR (not for amateurs), you don’t have to slide; instead, if you slide, it must be a legal slide, as defined in OBR as a “bona fide slide”. It was because Chase Utley deviated his path into Rubén Tejada to break up a double play that MLB had to create the rule: We can all agree, we can’t have that in the amateur game, and that includes College. In fact, Adult amateur (MSBL, NABA, et. al.) use the College FPSR, because it is so cut-&-dry. AFAIK, even LL addresses this, different from “pure” OBR (do they not? @Tborze? @Mudisfun? @ArchAngel72?). Again, what really screws this up is American Legion and some varieties of Tournament Events (eg. USSSA, etc.) employing OBR, and weaving through an interpretation minefield regarding what constitutes INT vs. not-INT, typically dissolving down to, “I’ll (as an umpire) know and judge INT when I see it.” To their credit, NCAA simplifies it down to the(ir) FPSR. And remember, NCAA rules are largely initiated and influenced by the coaches. In this case, the coaches wanted something more solid with which to teach their fielders to do, their runners to do, and reduce “umpire judgement” (which frustrates the HELL out of them) so it’s more consistently applied. This logic-checklist nature is evident in the (CCA, which NCAA uses) mechanic/rotation direction they prescribe and expect us to use. In 2-man, they have PU head not only towards 3B, but towards a space on the infield grass roughly halfway between the mound and 3B! The PU is expected to apply this same logic-checklist, and to aid the BU in observing and enforcing the FPSR. Lemme tell ya, college coaches do not want differing judgements. They don’t want one umpire to interpret / judge that play – and allow it – while the other one sees and interprets and judges it differently, and calls “INT!”. Drives. Them. Crazy. Let’s go back to @The Man in Blue’s posted play, shall we? I’m not ignoring anyone else’s comments on or about it; however, I was going to present a component of the play that is not being missed, per se, but hasn’t been addressed yet – Why did that U2 allow it, and What did he tell the DTHC who came out to talk with him about it? My estimate is that he judged that the throw wasn’t interfered with, was already delivered and down range, and that there was no affect (or contact) upon the fielder by R1. The U2 judged it on “interference” standards, not on violation standards. The coach likely inquired about interference. There was none. The coach likely then inquired about contact. There was none (of consequence). The U2 may have even used the phrase “my (umpire) judgement”, which a coach cannot (isn’t allowed to) argue with. I can’t say either way, but that’s my guess.

Good to “see” you Steve. Condolences on your loss and congratulations on your engagement, and umpiring progress. It’s good to have you back!

I’m calling a varsity HS school game. Second-tier suburban team hosting an inner-city team. In my area, the inner-city teams are usually awful, but the kids love it and have a good time. It’s unusual for them to play the suburban teams. Before the game even starts, visitor, inner city, coach (Charlie) comes out to me and says, “Sorry Steve, I used up my pitchers this week because of make-up games so my starter has never pitched before”. I die a little inside and we get started. After giving up eight runs in the bottom of the first even with my zone expanded to the size of a hippopotamus, they’re making a pitching change. During the switch, my partner comes up and tells me he doesn’t think the catcher is wearing a cup. We walk over to the visitor coach. By the way he was very nice through this whole encounter, although somewhat bewildered. Steve: Charlie, is your catcher wearing a cup? Charlie: I don’t know. Steve: Charlie, remember when I asked you at the plate meeting about your players being appropriately and legally equipped? This is what I was talking about. Can you ask him? Charlie: I don’t speak Spanish. I give him the “oh come on look.” Charlie: Hey Juan, come over here. Juan comes over. Charlie: Ask Renaldo if he is wearing a cup. Juan asks in Spanish. Renaldo looks over, wide-eyed and slowly shakes his head no. Steve: Can you find one? Charlie: I don’t think any of my players have a cup. I’m sorry, I didn’t know – it’s my first year coaching. Steve: Charlie, I can’t let your player play catcher without a cup. There some chatter and rummaging in the dugout, but nothing but blank stares after. Mike (Home team coach, who was in the 3rd base coaches box): Let me see what I can do. Mike runs over to the dugout, speaks to his players and returns. Mike: I think we got you covered, hold on a minute. Starting pitcher for the home team comes over and tosses a cup to the catcher. Pitcher: Here you go. And you can keep it … (he’s now jogging back to his dugout) Pitcher (over his shoulder but loud enough for all to hear): I needed to get a bigger one anyway!!! -Steve

No. If he's close enough to the bag to slide he needs to slide or veer off. Ducking at the bag never was, nor is a legit attempt to avoid a FPSR violation. Whatever he does at the bag other than a legal slide still needs to hinder, or illegally contact or alter the play to be a violation. Just like going in standing up, if he goes in ducking, and doesn't make contact, hinder, or alter the play, it's nothing. In this particular clip, it's still a violation. He clearly alters the play.

If I pay for these, can you ship the whole lot to @MadMax???

Coach was doing his own leaping there

This!! A million times this!!! I’ve had to explain to more than one HS umpire that a batter is not out for contacting the catcher on a follow through swing with no one on base 🙄

This 100%. It's time to take a stand against the abuse. The path we continue to follow is not working. We need wholesale change. Where are all the umpires?

It’s either because: It’s an intimidation / tribal-warfare tactic, or so he (HC) believes… His own team has been ~ corrected ~ for it, likely recently, by (an) umpire(s) in the past, and he’s still… sore… from the encounter. That’s why sedation dentistry exists. Some people don’t handle correction well; conversely, not every dentist dispenses correction well, either. 🦷

Love a Culver's butter burger. Plus they have really good fries.

On a more serious note, this is in Definitions in OBR: TOUCH. To touch a player or umpire is to touch any part of his body, or any uniform or equipment worn by him (but not any jewelry (e.g., necklaces, bracelets, etc.) worn by a player). (Touch) Comment: Equipment shall be considered worn by a player or umpire if it is in contact with its intended place on his person. So if the helmet is not in contact with its intended place (his head) on his person, then HE is not touching the bag. This is not like a fielder touching a bag with his glove while the ball is in his other hand. In that case, the glove is in contact with its intended place (his hand) on his person. That's my story and I'm sticking with it (until proven wrong, anyway).

Based on the uniform you just described, the ball will be yellow anyhow 🤣