UmpAgain

Rule set? NFHS requires intent, right? Steve

I appreciate Rich's clarification from the NCAA interpreter (not that i call college). Based on out discussion thus far, I would summarize: Call the FPSR if there is anything resembling a play going on, but if there is absolutely no play, don't call it. Consider this play I had in a recent varsity NFHS game: R1, no outs. Batter hits a trouble-ball pop up to short right field, F4 is playing in slightly for the double play and has no chance, F9 is sprinting in while R1 is holding about 1/3 of the way to 2B, ball is just missed by F9 and R1 sprints to 2B. Ball to F6 arrives 3-4 steps prior to R1's arrival. R1 puts on the breaks and comes in standing up and gently raises his arms and contacts f6 -- almost like you do if you were about to bump into someone in a hallway. F6 had nothing at 1B and showed no desire/intent/or plan to turn the pivot. BR has been standing on 1B long enough to get a manicure. I assume we are supposed to call the FPSR in this situation? I was PU BTW and my (very experienced) partner did not call it. He had the whole play as there was no pivot. I asked him about it afterwards and he said it shouldn't be called in this situation. -Steve

So if the player had taken his helmet off between bases and then was tagged on the held helmet -- would that get an out? What if the batter rounded first base still carrying the bat and that bat was tagged would that get an out? -steve

I’m calling a varsity HS school game. Second-tier suburban team hosting an inner-city team. In my area, the inner-city teams are usually awful, but the kids love it and have a good time. It’s unusual for them to play the suburban teams. Before the game even starts, visitor, inner city, coach (Charlie) comes out to me and says, “Sorry Steve, I used up my pitchers this week because of make-up games so my starter has never pitched before”. I die a little inside and we get started. After giving up eight runs in the bottom of the first even with my zone expanded to the size of a hippopotamus, they’re making a pitching change. During the switch, my partner comes up and tells me he doesn’t think the catcher is wearing a cup. We walk over to the visitor coach. By the way he was very nice through this whole encounter, although somewhat bewildered. Steve: Charlie, is your catcher wearing a cup? Charlie: I don’t know. Steve: Charlie, remember when I asked you at the plate meeting about your players being appropriately and legally equipped? This is what I was talking about. Can you ask him? Charlie: I don’t speak Spanish. I give him the “oh come on look.” Charlie: Hey Juan, come over here. Juan comes over. Charlie: Ask Renaldo if he is wearing a cup. Juan asks in Spanish. Renaldo looks over, wide-eyed and slowly shakes his head no. Steve: Can you find one? Charlie: I don’t think any of my players have a cup. I’m sorry, I didn’t know – it’s my first year coaching. Steve: Charlie, I can’t let your player play catcher without a cup. There some chatter and rummaging in the dugout, but nothing but blank stares after. Mike (Home team coach, who was in the 3rd base coaches box): Let me see what I can do. Mike runs over to the dugout, speaks to his players and returns. Mike: I think we got you covered, hold on a minute. Starting pitcher for the home team comes over and tosses a cup to the catcher. Pitcher: Here you go. And you can keep it … (he’s now jogging back to his dugout) Pitcher (over his shoulder but loud enough for all to hear): I needed to get a bigger one anyway!!! -Steve

Last year in a LL Majors game, I actually got two IFFs in a single inning. Check that office the umpire bucket list. -Steve

Last year I was calling a LL Majors game. As soon as the pop-up was hit, F4 runs to cover 2B -- kid was on auto pilot. I call IFF and the ball hits the spot he vacated. I mean it would have hit him on top of the head if he stayed in his TOP position. By the time the ball hit the ground he was 20 feet away. My logic? An ordinary second basemen at the LL-Major level, playing the ball in an an ordinary way would have made this very ordinary catch. This kid did something extraordinarily wrong. -Steve

Thanks for all the replies. To answer and explain a few things brought up, this was low-level, early-season JV. Positioning was tough because I had to see the catch/no-catch and then it looked like the defense was going to 2B until the outfielder essentially back picked to 3B. I did read the tag play, the players and paused before I definitely called "safe". At the time, I was comfortable with the situation, it was only during the postgame when I found out the runner was tagged that I started wondering. Another thought: In one of our training sessions regarding a swipe tag on the BR at first base when the field umpire is in B or C, our trainer's suggest that we do what essentially what is #2 above. Yell to the partner "do you have a tag?" and proceed accordingly. I've never used that technique. I know that first base is different, but I figured I'd bring up that mechanic. Do ya'all use that mechanic at first? -Steve

R2, outs don't matter. I'm the base umpire in the C position. B1 hits a "dying quail" to short left center. I turn and step a few steps toward the outfield as F7, F8 and F6 all sprint for the ball. The ball drops ticks off F8's glove. R2 was part way to 3B and as soon as the ball drops, he takes off. F8 bobbles the ball a bit and R2 rounds 3B. After I see the ball hit to ground, I say/signal the no-catch and then back up further into the infield watching to see where the ball is going to go. Play ends up at 3B with R2 busting back to the bag. Throw from F8 beats the runner, but it's not clear to me that the tag made contact with R2. Runner dodged slightly toward foul territory on his dive. I call the runner safe at 3B. There was no objection from the defensive team. I will note that I saw my partner was on the 3B line. All of this happened fairly quickly, I tried to get more of angle, but could only get so far because I didn't know where the the throw was going. In my post game, partner lets me know he saw a clear tag from his perspective. (I specifically asked about the play). So here's my question. Other than working to get a better angle, should I? Call the runner safe and wait for the DC to ask me to check with my partner (This is what I would have done had he asked), Before making a call, shout to my partner "Rick, do you have a tag?" and make my call accordingly (and hope Rick was paying attention -- note from above, I did see him on the line, looking at the play), or Call the runner safe (or out), call time and then go to my partner and ask him privately before I'm asked (this doesn't seem right to me). Thank you in advance, -Steve

I was calling a JV game last night. Whoever laid out this field must have used Stone Hedge as a a guide. The first base line goes straight west to east -- lining up the setting sun perfectly. In the 7th inning, it's about 715pm, sun is just above the horizon and so is right above the batter's head. No runners, I'm in A. I can't see anything down the line (like the batter and the catcher). I've got my hat down low and am wearing my high-end Oakley polarized sunglasses. Trying to block the sun with my hand really isn't cutting it. I'm wising I had my solar eclipse glasses with me. Here's my question, would you move to the B position in this situation? Thanks -Steve

And you also get the out on the BR per FPSR, correct? -Steve

This one is from last year, but I never got around to typing it up. As the title suggests, I hate ejecting kids especially little ones. But hey, if you need to go, you need to go. U10 machine pitch/kid pitch hybrid. I’m working alone. We are in the kid pitch portion of the game. F1 is decent for a 10 year-old. He’s doing fine and his team is doing up by a few runs. R1, R3. B1 hits a grounder to F6 who throws to F3 who drops the ball near the bag – B1 is safe running through the bag, R3 has scored. F3 picks up the ball and throws it over to try to get R1 at 3B, ball arrives slightly before the runner but the ball bounces off F5’s glove dribbling towards the pitchers mound. Play is now semi-relaxed despite the live ball. F1 visibly annoyed, trots over to the ball. I’m thinking great, he’s gonna pick up the ball and go back to the mound. Kids pick up speed and kicks the ball. This kick is not like he stumbled trying to get the ball, but more like a soccer PK. I watch and am now thinking what the heck did I just see? My brain quickly clicks in and as I start to walk over to his coach to warn the kid, F1 takes off his glove and throws it hard against the other team’s dugout fence 25 feed away loudly rattling the fence. WTF? I then proceed to the coach to and inform him that his pitcher needs to go. -Steve

Check out the play at 9:30. Verdugo slides into second base and kind of pops up. If this had been an NFHS game, what are your thoughts on invoking the FPSR here. I'm thinking no, ball was already uncaught and past Altuve when Verdugo pops up and there was no contact I could see. I don't see this as altering the action of the fielder. -Steve

Sorry about the necrobump, I don’t peruse this sub often. It appears California has specifically exempted amateur sports officials from AB5: https://www.cnra.net/2020/09/cnra-announces-modifications-to-assembly-bill-5/#:~:text=CNRA began its efforts nearly,be classified as independent contractors. I know my current state of residence (NY) has a similar law. It appears that the IRS has also ruled that amateur sports officials are not employees, although that decision is from 1967. http://www.donaldcollins.org/uploads/7/7/2/3/77230529/specreptindcont_copy.pdf

So I’ve been reading through the Ask the Umpire forum and have a question. This is hypothetical, so I’m curious what different rule sets might say. I understand the award, but my question is how to verbalize it as the umpire. I seem to recall seeing a discussion in a very old threat; here goes: R1, 1 out. Batter hits deep fly ball, R1 off on contact. Ball is caught when runner is well past 2nd. F8 throws ball out of play (for argument sake, let’s say he flips into the stands) I know the NFHS rule that going back and touching 1st at this point won’t negate the possibility of appeal in this situation. Since the runner’s award from 1st would be 3rd base, if I award third base aren’t I tipping the defense that he left early (runner is still past second, let say) Do I award home and if he goes back to first to tag, then change the award to 3rd? Thanks!

Didn't see the discussion in this forum prior to posting a now locked thread in the rules section. Here is my post. Still curious.... Steve