Controversial Ending to CA State Championship

[SeeingEyeDog]

Brothers, what do you have here? I have the ball to the right of the LF fair pole and then disappearing behind the wall. I have a 4 base award. But, admittedly, this is not my market and I do not know this field so, it would be helpful to know what is behind that LF fence and how it's configured back there to fully understand what happened. Anyone have any speculation about how this crew huddle may have gone down? We absolutely see U3 signaling HR. He had the best distance, not sure if he had the best angle...

Also, don't miss #2 at the end doing the crying eyes mechanic to the other team...I wonder how that payback might have come after the final decision was rendered?

~Dawg

[Velho]

Best I can figure, as Matt called out in that video, is the crew decided the ball went off the top of the wall then the foul pole for a two base award.

Some local & insightful comments under that video (if true). Makes me more observant about what's just beyond the field. We get the easy ones - scoreboard is beyond fence so is HR - but shows there can be trickier things lurking.

[Umpy]

The comments on that video point to another channel that has a clip showing it hit the warning track.  One of them is a bad video I guess, but which?

 

[urout17]

Is that a windscreen wrapping the "chain-link" fence?  If so, that would explain why you still can see a little part of the ball that's circled.  If THAT'S the case, HR.  Also, not knowing this field and going by just what I see in the video, that's what I have.

[834k3r]

Zoomed in digital video is not a great analysis tool; too many artifacts arise from the pixelation making it difficult to determine what's a blurred ball and what's the computer's attempt at enlarging a portion of the image.

[Richvee]

After a few looks, I’m sticking with what I thought I saw the first time. I think it hits the screen on the foul pole as the ball is coming down. . It’s after that all the wacky bounces and disappearing/ reappearing ball starts. There’s one person who may know for sure…. F7

[Tborze]

2 hours ago, Richvee said:

After a few looks, I’m sticking with what I thought I saw the first time. I think it hits the screen on the foul pole as the ball is coming down. . It’s after that all the wacky bounces and disappearing/ reappearing ball starts. There’s one person who may know for sure…. F7

I too thought it nicked the F/F pole. 
HR 

[DevildogUmp]

Forget where the ball went, who is covering the plate for touches?!?!?!?!?!?!

[grayhawk]

Another angle:
 

 

[MadMax]

Two criticisms of the umpires... 

1. U3 is still running / moving significantly when the ball reaches the crucial point in flight – when it crosses the boundary / fence / wall. Stop and set! 
2. If anyone is wondering who (on the crew), overruled U3, your culprit is U2. Watch the interaction between U2 and F6... U2 says something. F6 starts hopping around, and you see U2 make a beeline for U3. If you don't have calling responsibility on that play, KYMSUA!!! This wasn't an incorrect ruling or misapplication of the rules, this was a boundary-OOP judgement. Protocol has to be followed in a game of this magnitude, especially. 

[Jimurray]

55 minutes ago, grayhawk said:

Another angle:
 

 

That looks like a HR. What would explain no U1 rotating to HP. Did he stop the rotation knowing they were changing to a double? 

[The Man in Blue]

Here we go again  . . . 

 

[umpstu]

15 hours ago, Umpy said:

The comments on that video point to another channel that has a clip showing it hit the warning track.  One of them is a bad video I guess, but which?

 

Quote

Also see the ball kick to the left after it hit the warning track. That could have been the spin of the ball coming off of the bat. As it is CIFSS did review video of the hit and concluded the umpires got the call correct. My big question is why did it take so long to make the original home run call?

 

[wolfe_man]

Strange play. I've seen the video and my original though was HR, but after watching it and hearing his thoughts, I do agree with Matt in that it appears it appears to bounce and reappear too fast to be coming back up from behind the wall.

I too think it took way too long for a signal.  The 3B umpire points fair, but didn't signal HR, making me think he knew it didn't get out initially... or at least suspected it. 

I noticed that PU left home too and wasn't going to be there to observe touch (didn't see U1 rotating there either).

Just odd all the way around.

 

[johnnyg08]

Interesting press release! 

[Velho]

Shame that people going after Moorpark (didn't know that but I'm not surprised), though the wah-wah kid deserves an earful of how to behave.

I must have missed the videos that "clearly show" anything (I'd love to see picture/videos of what's on the other side of the fence, how the walls and pole are arranged, etc but I suppose that would involved actual reporting).

Congratulations on 9th place Hart (California's playoff system is broken).

[grayhawk]

2 hours ago, Velho said:

I'd love to see picture/videos of what's on the other side of the fence, how the walls and pole are arranged, etc but I suppose that would involved actual reporting

Ask and you shall receive:

https://highschool.athlonsports.com/california/2024/05/18/video-hart-vs-moorpark-cif-baseball-final-controversy-hr-or-ground-rule-double

[Velho]

56 minutes ago, grayhawk said:

Ask and you shall receive:

Thanks.

"Clear" is a bit of a stretch by Hart (and I'd have loved the reporter to stick the camera over the top of the wall to see what's back there).

Putting everything together it does feel like it landed fair while tailing left and bounced over the fence before the foul pole.

Crew could have done better as discussed but at the same time I feel for them since the lighting and other field conditions could have been better as well.

The world has spent way too much time talking about 9th place in one of ten sections in California** (albeit likely the most competitive section).

** Interesting factoid: 6 CA schools aren't in a CA section. They are in AZ or NV leagues.

[umpstu]

Look

[umpstu]

Just now, umpstu said:

Look

Look at No. 2's mid left thigh. Plus if it were a home run why would the left fielder be looking in the direction he is instead of watching the ball clearing the wall?

[Richvee]

I’ve seen nothing to change my mind that the ball hit the screen on the foul pole and bounced awkwardly after that. 

[Jimurray]

24 minutes ago, Richvee said:

I’ve seen nothing to change my mind that the ball hit the screen on the foul pole and bounced awkwardly after that. 

I can't tell from any of the videos (after very successful cataract removal on my right eye ) and if the Hart photos show anything it still might not preclude hitting the foul screen, U3 pointing fair, F7 thinking it hit the ground and U3 pondering what he saw and concluding HR. We need statements from all of the crew to tell us what they saw and how U3 took their input and reversed himself. But where are the Hart photos?

[Richvee]

46 minutes ago, Jimurray said:

I can't tell from any of the videos (after very successful cataract removal on my right eye ) and if the Hart photos show anything it still might not preclude hitting the foul screen, U3 pointing fair, F7 thinking it hit the ground and U3 pondering what he saw and concluding HR. We need statements from all of the crew to tell us what they saw and how U3 took their input and reversed himself. But where are the Hart photos?

Agree. I keep watching the Antonelli video. Where he keeps backing it up as the ball is descending.  That ball does something weird on the way down. Like it changes trajectory. Like it would do if it hit the thin pole that borders the screen to the right. 

[Richvee]

On 5/21/2024 at 12:26 PM, urout17 said:

Is that a windscreen wrapping the "chain-link" fence?  If so, that would explain why you still can see a little part of the ball that's circled.  If THAT'S the case, HR.  Also, not knowing this field and going by just what I see in the video, that's what I have.

I just saw this clip. This looks like it is indeed chain link, with a tarp/windscreen hanging from it. Does this ball actually come down on between the fence and the covering? Any would explain the disappearing ball and reappearing at the bottom of the concern near the ground. 

 

[umpstu]

On 5/21/2024 at 5:01 PM, DevildogUmp said:

Forget where the ball went, who is covering the plate for touches?!?!?!?!?!?!

U1