Ejection from Last Night

[grayhawk]

Varsity fall ball game last night.  0-2 pitch splits the plate right at the knees for called strike three.  As the batter is slowly walking towards the 3B dugout, I can see out of the corner of my eye that he's staring at me.  I look over at him and he's got daggers in his eyes and then points with his bat to indicate that he thought the pitch was low.  I say nothing and then he says, "You're terrible."  It was probably only loud enough for the catcher and me to hear it.

I gave him the full treatment, removing my mask, giving the ejection mechanic and saying, "You're gone."

The head coach yells at him, "What are you doing?  Get over here!"  The coach came to me between innings to apologize for his player.

First ejection in probably 3 years - I don't keep track of them.

 

[Mudisfun]

You just let him throw the rope over the beam, stand on the chair, position the noose and jump off. Nothing you can do there.

Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk

[Replacematt]

13 hours ago, grayhawk said:

Varsity fall ball game last night.  0-2 pitch splits the plate right at the knees for called strike three.  As the batter is slowly walking towards the 3B dugout, I can see out of the corner of my eye that he's staring at me.  I look over at him and he's got daggers in his eyes and then points with his bat to indicate that he thought the pitch was low.  I say nothing and then he says, "You're terrible."  It was probably only loud enough for the catcher and me to hear it.

I gave him the full treatment, removing my mask, giving the ejection mechanic and saying, "You're gone."

The head coach yells at him, "What are you doing?  Get over here!"  The coach came to me between innings to apologize for his player.

First ejection in probably 3 years - I don't keep track of them.

 

Let's add some value to this story...

I'm curious as to what the batter was doing that he could stare at you while walking back to the dugout.

Also, what had transpired in the game to this point?

[grayhawk]

8 hours ago, Matt said:

Let's add some value to this story...

I'm curious as to what the batter was doing that he could stare at you while walking back to the dugout.

Also, what had transpired in the game to this point?

Nothing unusual in the game - just your normal fall ball.  When the coach came to me at the end of the inning and apologized for his player, he said that the kid is a hothead and needs to learn that he's not going to play if he acts like that.

Not sure I understand your first question.  He was slowly heading back but kind of walking sideways so that he could stare me down.  That's why it got my attention out of the corner of my eye.

[umpstu]

6 hours ago, grayhawk said:

Nothing unusual in the game - just your normal fall ball.  When the coach came to me at the end of the inning and apologized for his player, he said that the kid is a hothead and needs to learn that he's not going to play if he acts like that.

Not sure I understand your first question.  He was slowly heading back but kind of walking sideways so that he could stare me down.  That's why it got my attention out of the corner of my eye.

I like a coach like that.  The one's who use the diamond as the extension of the classroom like they are supposed to do are the best.  If those coaches argue they usually have a pretty good reason to.

[Replacematt]

On 10/15/2016 at 9:22 AM, grayhawk said:

Nothing unusual in the game - just your normal fall ball.  When the coach came to me at the end of the inning and apologized for his player, he said that the kid is a hothead and needs to learn that he's not going to play if he acts like that.

Not sure I understand your first question.  He was slowly heading back but kind of walking sideways so that he could stare me down.  That's why it got my attention out of the corner of my eye.

Ok...

I don't know if I would have ended up with an ejection here. (Take note of the language I just used.)

A batter staring me down as he's leaving isn't going to get a response from me--most likely because I'm not going to see it, because my head and body are going to be pointed away from him. Even if I do catch it, I'm not acknowledging it. Thus, he's not going to have the opportunity to say that I'm terrible.

[conbo61]

Sounds good to me. Just because @grayhawk looks at him doesn't mean the batter has to make any gesture much less make any comments.

Batter made a choice to verbalize his displeasure AND in doing so made it personal (YOU'RE terrible).

See-ya kid...

[Replacematt]

1 hour ago, conbo61 said:

Sounds good to me. Just because @grayhawk looks at him doesn't mean the batter has to make any gesture much less make any comments.

Batter made a choice to verbalize his displeasure AND in doing so made it personal (YOU'RE terrible).

See-ya kid...

You missed the point of my post.

[Mister B]

13 hours ago, Matt said:

Ok...

I don't know if I would have ended up with an ejection here. (Take note of the language I just used.)

A batter staring me down as he's leaving isn't going to get a response from me--most likely because I'm not going to see it, because my head and body are going to be pointed away from him. Even if I do catch it, I'm not acknowledging it. Thus, he's not going to have the opportunity to say that I'm terrible.

No, he can still say that you  are terrible, you just aren't giving him the chance to look you in the eye while doing it. 

This is fall ball, so there is still some developmental stuff going on. If you aren't going to let players look you in the eye, how can you expect them to ask you anything? What if the kid just wanted to know about where the pitch came it? "Excuse me, where did the pitch come in? It seemed low to me."

The kids in our league are taught that even if they think the umpire got it wrong, they aren't going to win an argument. If you serious aren't sure, ask politely. But, for the most part, just assume that this umpire has a large strike zone. I work 12u and under so, I mention that my strike zone is going to be big at the plate meeting. But I still get the occasional look back when I call a strike that is right at the belt and just misses outside or inside. I'd really like to say, "Kid, if you ever learn to hit those, you'll do pretty well." 

[stkjock]

5 hours ago, Mister B said:

No, he can still say that you  are terrible, you just aren't giving him the chance to look you in the eye while doing it. 

This is fall ball, so there is still some developmental stuff going on. If you aren't going to let players look you in the eye, how can you expect them to ask you anything? What if the kid just wanted to know about where the pitch came it? "Excuse me, where did the pitch come in? It seemed low to me."

The kids in our league are taught that even if they think the umpire got it wrong, they aren't going to win an argument. If you serious aren't sure, ask politely. But, for the most part, just assume that this umpire has a large strike zone. I work 12u and under so, I mention that my strike zone is going to be big at the plate meeting. But I still get the occasional look back when I call a strike that is right at the belt and just misses outside or inside. I'd really like to say, "Kid, if you ever learn to hit those, you'll do pretty well." 

I'm willing to bet if the player looked at GH, which IMO, is different that staring,  and spoke with respect as your comment suggests, the kid would not have gotten the heave ho....  

[Replacematt]

7 hours ago, Mister B said:

No, he can still say that you  are terrible, you just aren't giving him the chance to look you in the eye while doing it. 

This is fall ball, so there is still some developmental stuff going on. If you aren't going to let players look you in the eye, how can you expect them to ask you anything? What if the kid just wanted to know about where the pitch came it? "Excuse me, where did the pitch come in? It seemed low to me." 

Are you really unsure of the difference between a batter asking an immediate question and one trying to do a staredown? Don't you think if that was the issue, it would have been asked right away?

He would have never said anything had there never been eye contact. It would have come out right away.

[grayhawk]

Matt, I really didn't know what the player was doing when I initially looked at him.  All I really knew was that he was taking an awful long time to get back to the dugout and he seemed to be looking back in my direction.  Frankly, it would have been awkward to look away since it was pretty obvious that SOMETHING was going on.  I was surprised to see him shooting daggers at me since this pitch split the plate at the knees.

Once I looked over, looking away was not an option.  That would have only encouraged more of this behavior which would only have been passing the buck to the next umpire.  I texted my assigner about it and gave him the details and his response was "Glad you didn't miss the opportunity to EJ him."

If he's satisfied, then so am I.

[Thunderheads]

20 minutes ago, grayhawk said:

Matt, I really didn't know what the player was doing when I initially looked at him.  All I really knew was that he was taking an awful long time to get back to the dugout and he seemed to be looking back in my direction.  Frankly, it would have been awkward to look away since it was pretty obvious that SOMETHING was going on.  I was surprised to see him shooting daggers at me since this pitch split the plate at the knees.

Once I looked over, looking away was not an option.  That would have only encouraged more of this behavior which would only have been passing the buck to the next umpire.  I texted my assigner about it and gave him the details and his response was "Glad you didn't miss the opportunity to EJ him."

If he's satisfied, then so am I.

I think Matt means well here.

If he didn't say anything to you , why bother looking at him in the first place, even though it was obvious that something was going on and he was "trying" to get your attention.  I think Matt is just saying, don't look = no EJ, that's all.   In very simple terms, I can see where that makes sense.  However, the slow departure from the batter caused you to glance because it was taking so long.

Truth be told, ....  IF Matt had looked like you did, and the same thing happened, I'm pretty sure he'd have an EJ, ...like 99% of us would have .... 

Caveat:  Fall Ball can be a fun way to "have some fun" ......like:    "Terrible? Me?  I'm not the one who watched a perfect pitch go by"    Then, you keep him in the game and hope he comes up again for more! LOL

[Replacematt]

1 minute ago, Thunderheads said:

I think Matt means well here.

If he didn't say anything to you , why bother looking at him in the first place, even though it was obvious that something was going on and he was "trying" to get your attention.  I think Matt is just saying, don't look = no EJ, that's all.   In very simple terms, I can see where that makes sense.  However, the slow departure from the batter caused you to glance because it was taking so long.

Truth be told, ....  IF Matt had looked like you did, and the same thing happened, I'm pretty sure he'd have an EJ, ...like 99% of us would have .... 

Caveat:  Fall Ball can be a fun way to "have some fun" ......like:    "Terrible? Me?  I'm not the one who watched a perfect pitch go by"    Then, you keep him in the game and hope he comes up again for more! LOL

That is exactly what I'm saying.

[grayhawk]

8 minutes ago, Matt said:

That is exactly what I'm saying.

I knew what you were saying.  What I am saying is that you would have had to TRY to NOT look because it was obvious that something was happening.

[Replacematt]

7 minutes ago, grayhawk said:

I knew what you were saying.  What I am saying is that you would have had to TRY to NOT look because it was obvious that something was happening.

I know. That's why the default is to go in the opposite direction after a strikeout.

[grayhawk]

13 minutes ago, Matt said:

I know. That's why the default is to go in the opposite direction after a strikeout.

Is it?  Would love to hear from some D1 guys on this.

[UmpJeff]

52 minutes ago, Matt said:

I know. That's why the default is to go in the opposite direction after a strikeout.

That's what I've always been taught.  By D1, MiLB, and MLB umpires/instructors.

You'll always find trouble if you look for it...

[Thunderheads]

18 minutes ago, Matt said:

I know. That's why the default is to go in the opposite direction after a strikeout.

Go in what opposite direction?  Less than 2 outs, you're staying put waiting for the next batter.

[Replacematt]

1 hour ago, grayhawk said:

Is it?  Would love to hear from some D1 guys on this.

You are.

[Replacematt]

34 minutes ago, Thunderheads said:

Go in what opposite direction?  Less than 2 outs, you're staying put waiting for the next batter.

You're not a statue, though. After any pitch, you get up, relax, then reset yourself. This is no different...if he's walking left, I take a step to my right as I relax, and vice versa.

[grayhawk]

Using your method, would the batter have said something to get my attention, or might he have just decided to go back to the dugout?  Hard to say, but I think it's fair to say that he's less likely to say something without any eye contact.  I did ignore it for a couple of seconds and just kept my eyes forward, but once I was sure something was going on with him, I looked him in the eyes.  I think it's a fine line though.  If you look like you're purposely looking away from the batter, then you may look unsure about the call you just made.  If you know you missed it, I think most people are more likely to want to avoid eye contact with the guy they just hosed.  Kind of like giving a guy more rope when you know you missed a call.  I certainly don't want to encourage more of this behavior and I have a feeling that batter learned more from being ejected on that night than he would have by staring me down and me looking away.

[conbo61]

The batter had the right to remain silent. He gave up the right and it cost him.

IF he had asked for a "clarification" in a respectful manner, I would bet dollars to donuts he would have remained in the game. 

[lawump]

On October 17, 2016 at 1:01 PM, grayhawk said:

Is it?  Would love to hear from some D1 guys on this.

I'm EJ'ing that baby rat.

[Thunderheads]

On 10/17/2016 at 5:43 PM, grayhawk said:

Using your method, would the batter have said something to get my attention, or might he have just decided to go back to the dugout?  Hard to say, but I think it's fair to say that he's less likely to say something without any eye contact.  I did ignore it for a couple of seconds and just kept my eyes forward, but once I was sure something was going on with him, I looked him in the eyes.  I think it's a fine line though.  If you look like you're purposely looking away from the batter, then you may look unsure about the call you just made.  If you know you missed it, I think most people are more likely to want to avoid eye contact with the guy they just hosed.  Kind of like giving a guy more rope when you know you missed a call.  I certainly don't want to encourage more of this behavior and I have a feeling that batter learned more from being ejected on that night than he would have by staring me down and me looking away.

A couple things here.  1; again,....I don't think Matt has bad intentions here regardless, and I think there's some prudence to what he's saying.  At the same time; number 2; Steve did nothing wrong here either.  With less than two outs, on a called strike 3, with a batter EXITING the box, and the on-deck batter ENTERING the box from the same side, I don't see there's any indication of "looking for anything" if you've noticed the exiting batter isn't moving very fast and you glance over at him.  It's natural.  And, by Steve's description, it was obvious that the exiting batter was doing something out of the ordinary (walking VERY slowly and trying to get Steve's attention).

What seems UN-natural to me is Matt's suggestion of "relaxing while taking a step to the right" (if the batter is exiting to the left).  Right or wrong, it doesn't seem natural or necessary. Granted though, Matt umpires at a much higher level than me, and has probably had much higher training....

But back to it ......Why?  Why can't I (we, the umpire) just stand where we were?  Why do we have to move?  I agree w/ Steve .....To me, moving or ignoring what just happened is an indication of a missed call...but that's just me, and I could be wrong.