Jglopez7 Posted April 3 Report Share Posted April 3 I have included a link to the videos for a LHP. Curios to hear feedback. Also would these rules be cited if called a balk. I understand the rule for a RHP. Link: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1vK1xJr9iiijsxXvJ24n8drh2GYvZizAk/view?usp=drivesdk Link 2: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1J_2H6v1tMvOqEeXQ2xjTheY3ByGsR6hO/view?usp=drivesdk Link 3: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1AzLgYqBWLmiUo0KHxtsas-u3bAyL0xrB/view?usp=drivesdk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 noumpere Posted April 3 Report Share Posted April 3 2 minutes ago, Jglopez7 said: I understand the rule for a RHP. Then you understand the rules for a LH pitcher -- they are the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Jglopez7 Posted April 3 Author Report Share Posted April 3 27 minutes ago, noumpere said: Then you understand the rules for a LH pitcher -- they are the same. I agree. Just want to share the video and get different perspectives Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 834k3r Posted April 4 Report Share Posted April 4 Subtle, but I'd balk it. I'm sure the OC was coming unglued. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 beerguy55 Posted April 4 Report Share Posted April 4 I fully admit that this is, by a few light years, the weakest part of my rules knowledge. So that said, I fail to see the balk here. How has that little back knee bend committed him to pitch vs simply stepping towards and throwing to first? Not really sure how you can do that without pushing off the back leg to some degree...this is so small his heel doesn't even lift. Maybe I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure I saw Andy Pettitte do this about 800 times. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 BigBlue4u Posted April 4 Report Share Posted April 4 1 hour ago, beerguy55 said: Maybe I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure I saw Andy Pettitte do this about 800 times. You very well may be right. But remember this, each level, MLB, NCAA and NFHS has its own rules interpreter. As a result, the ruling will depend on what level is being played. Thus, not all levels may agree on a certain move by the pitcher. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 johnnyg08 Posted April 5 Report Share Posted April 5 All of these are balks. They're hard to get unless you're ready for them right away. You have to really focus on the lower half of the body. Nice clips. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Jimurray Posted April 5 Report Share Posted April 5 1 hour ago, johnnyg08 said: All of these are balks. They're hard to get unless you're ready for them right away. You have to really focus on the lower half of the body. Nice clips. I'm not ready for them and I'm not gonna focus on them. Nobody has demonstrated that you can throw in one direction without flexing the leg. If a coach wants to key his runner on a knee too bad. Somewhere in MLBUM there was and might be some wording about back leg knee pops. I never understood it and calling knee pops is above my pay grade. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 maven Posted April 5 Report Share Posted April 5 I'm with Jimurray. No balk in HS varsity and below. Especially in youth ball, where F1's twitch and wiggle all over the mound, this is way to picky. Football officials would call this kind of violation "too technical." If the explanation of the call has to start with, "technically..." then we shouldn't be calling it. Balks should almost always call themselves. This one doesn't. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 The Man in Blue Posted April 5 Report Share Posted April 5 At lower levels, I am with the consensus that this would probably not be seen, let alone called. To @beerguy55’s question of what is to be gained (or why it should be a balk), I would say it is mimicking a weight shift indicative of a pitch. However, as @Jimurray said, you shift on almost any throw, so … Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 blue23ll Posted April 5 Report Share Posted April 5 Are the links of the same move, just different views? Link #3 is clearly a balk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 urout17 Posted April 5 Report Share Posted April 5 1 minute ago, The Man in Blue said: At lower levels, I am with the consensus that this would probably not be seen, let alone called. To @beerguy55’s question of what is to be gained (or why it should be a balk), I would say it is mimicking a weight shift indicative of a pitch. However, as @Jimurray said, you shift on almost any throw, so … Back in my playing days, when leading off vs RH pitchers, we were trained to watch the pitchers pivot leg from the knee down since he couldn't come over without picking it up off the plate. That little knee buckle would tip us off to take off. I do watch for that in higher level games. Just my two cents. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Jglopez7 Posted April 5 Author Report Share Posted April 5 19 minutes ago, blue23ll said: Are the links of the same move, just different views? Link #3 is clearly a balk. Two different pick off attempts. Third video is slowed down for better viewing. Great feedback from everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 noumpere Posted April 5 Report Share Posted April 5 1 hour ago, urout17 said: Back in my playing days, when leading off vs RH pitchers, we were trained to watch the pitchers pivot leg from the knee down since he couldn't come over without picking it up off the plate. That's clearly wrong, by rule. (I agree that in practice most (nearly all) throws from a RH pitcher involve a jab step or a step back.) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 urout17 Posted April 5 Report Share Posted April 5 38 minutes ago, noumpere said: That's clearly wrong, by rule. (I agree that in practice most (nearly all) throws from a RH pitcher involve a jab step or a step back.) Oh, absolutely but you know how coaches love to teach "If you ain't cheat'n, you ain't try'n." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 beerguy55 Posted April 5 Report Share Posted April 5 3 hours ago, urout17 said: Oh, absolutely but you know how coaches love to teach "If you ain't cheat'n, you ain't try'n." It's elemental to the game...what can you get away with in plain sight of the umpires. Here's the opening statement in Ken Burns' Baseball documentary. This sums up the history of baseball and the word "cheating" comes in the first sentence, mere seconds after the series begins. At its heart lie mythic contradictions: a pastoral game born in crowded cities, an exhilarating democratic sport that tolerates cheating, and has excluded as many as it has included. A profoundly conservative game that often manages to be years ahead of its time. It is an American Odyssey that links sons and daughters to fathers and grandfathers, and it reflects a host of age-old American tensions; between workers and owners, scandal and reform, the individual and the collective. It is a haunted game in which every player is measured with the ghosts of those who have gone before. Most of all it is about time and timelessness, speed and grace, failure and loss, imperishable hope, and coming home.” 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Umpire Guy 702 Posted April 5 Report Share Posted April 5 That 1st one is pretty bad. 2 completely separate movements almost mimicking a start/stop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Biscuit Posted April 6 Report Share Posted April 6 On 4/4/2024 at 9:04 PM, johnnyg08 said: All of these are balks. They're hard to get unless you're ready for them right away. You have to really focus on the lower half of the body. Nice clips. I agree... But I'm having a really hard tome coming up with rule book verbiage. How are you explaining the balk to the coach? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Kevin_K Posted April 7 Report Share Posted April 7 22 hours ago, Biscuit said: I agree... But I'm having a really hard tome coming up with rule book verbiage. How are you explaining the balk to the coach? On 4/5/2024 at 7:14 PM, Umpire Guy 702 said: That 1st one is pretty bad. 2 completely separate movements almost mimicking a start/stop You already explained it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 johnnyg08 Posted April 8 Report Share Posted April 8 On 4/6/2024 at 9:21 AM, Biscuit said: I agree... But I'm having a really hard tome coming up with rule book verbiage. How are you explaining the balk to the coach? Understood. It's a start & stop. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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Jglopez7
I have included a link to the videos for a LHP. Curios to hear feedback. Also would these rules be cited if called a balk. I understand the rule for a RHP.
Link: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1vK1xJr9iiijsxXvJ24n8drh2GYvZizAk/view?usp=drivesdk
Link 2: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1J_2H6v1tMvOqEeXQ2xjTheY3ByGsR6hO/view?usp=drivesdk
Link 3: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1AzLgYqBWLmiUo0KHxtsas-u3bAyL0xrB/view?usp=drivesdk
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maven
I'm with Jimurray. No balk in HS varsity and below. Especially in youth ball, where F1's twitch and wiggle all over the mound, this is way to picky. Football officials would call this kind of vio
Jimurray
I'm not ready for them and I'm not gonna focus on them. Nobody has demonstrated that you can throw in one direction without flexing the leg. If a coach wants to key his runner on a knee too bad. Somew
beerguy55
I fully admit that this is, by a few light years, the weakest part of my rules knowledge. So that said, I fail to see the balk here. How has that little back knee bend committed him to pitch vs sim
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