Giving Back Playoff Games

[JonnyCat]

8 minutes ago, LMSANS said:

Do we want to get back to umpire discussion or close the topic?🙂

Still germane to umpiring. They are discussing which vehicle to take to their games. 

[BLWizzRanger]

How many shirts can you hang in the back of the EV?

[ErichKeane]

7 minutes ago, BLWizzRanger said:

How many shirts can you hang in the back of the EV?

Much as any other F150 crew cab But for some reason, Navy doesn't fit 😛 One thing I WILL say is amazing though is that because there is no engine bay, the 'Frunk' (a trunk in the front... the name is stupid) is big enough for all of my gear and then some.  REALLY nice way to carry my gear bag around.

[MadMax]

14 hours ago, ErichKeane said:

But for some reason, Navy doesn't fit

Navy. The one shirt color that brings its own baggage*. 🧳 

 

* - and yes, there are many implications

[wolfe_man]

27 minutes ago, MadMax said:

Navy. The one shirt color that brings its own baggage*. 🧳 

 

* - and yes, there are many implications

Three colors I don't have for summer, navy, white & pink.   No one wants to wear navy, white lasts 2 innings in hot & dusty conditions and while not my preference I would wear pink in May for Mother's Day games - but no one has it, so I don't either. 

After HS ball, navy is delegated to the bench for the summer & fall.  Oh how I wish we could get rid of it in HS also, but alas it is not my decision.

[SeeingEyeDog]

@wolfe_man, pink also works for October...Breast Cancer Awareness month...my Mom is a survivor. She tells everyone at "The Home" that her son "wears a pink shirt in October just for me when he umpires baseball".

The last time I was there, an otherwise pleasant gentleman looked at me and yelled, "Hey! I watch a lot of baseball on TV! Your Mom says you're an umpire...how come I never see you on TV?"

I suspect I will be asked this again and or I am looking forward to "continuing" this discussion so, if anyone has a gentle zinger that I could respond with, I would be grateful...

~Dawg

[MadMax]

To bring this back to “Turning back Playoffs games”, this stupefies me – you (as a state association) endeavor all year (off-season and actual playing season) to recruit, develop, assign, evaluate, rate, and then place the best umpires (plural) on these playoff games, which feature (hopefully) the best baseball-playing talent your state has to offer. 

Likely well-attended and televised. Photos and videos abundant. And you push, and in some cases, compel your umpires to enrich and steel themselves in their knowledge and use of the Rules, protocols, and coordination with 3-man and 4-man so it not only functions effectively, but looks excellent. 

That whole thing with “optics”. 

And yet… you’ve done all this, and you’re promoting this as “the best” you’ve got… but you’re putting those umpires out there in a shirt _style_ that professional baseball left in the dust 14 years ago, and a color that they dropped 25 years ago!!! 

What for?!?! If you were dictate that you’re sticking with navy (why, still don’t know), but you’d allow for an updated / modern style (the 2016 MLB panel style is available in navy with red panel), then guys like me would see it as progress, albeit a compromise. But to stick to that specific style with such stubborn tenacity just shows how much of a despot and a d!€k you are. Get over yourself, and get out of the way. 

[The Man in Blue]

@MadMax's Paragraph 1 ...

Me: 

 

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Me: 

 

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Me: 

 

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Me: 

[The Man in Blue]

3 hours ago, SeeingEyeDog said:

@wolfe_man, pink also works for October...Breast Cancer Awareness month...my Mom is a survivor. She tells everyone at "The Home" that her son "wears a pink shirt in October just for me when he umpires baseball".

The last time I was there, an otherwise pleasant gentleman looked at me and yelled, "Hey! I watch a lot of baseball on TV! Your Mom says you're an umpire...how come I never see you on TV?"

I suspect I will be asked this again and or I am looking forward to "continuing" this discussion so, if anyone has a gentle zinger that I could respond with, I would be grateful...

~Dawg

 

Because I wear a mask.  

[LMSANS]

The day the color of my shirt determines my skills as an umpire is the day I hang up my mask.

 My grandfather wore a suit and tie when he umpired, with a white shirt in 1926.

[Richvee]

3 hours ago, LMSANS said:

The day the color of my shirt determines my skills as an umpire is the day I hang up my mask.

 My grandfather wore a suit and tie when he umpired, with a white shirt in 1926.

We’ve been down this road before. Obviously the color of your shirt doesn’t  determine your abilities. That said, up here in North Jersey, the odds of getting a top notch partner who replies to my emails with ”I only have navy” is literally 50-1 at best. I can think of 2 off the top of my head that excel on the baseball field out of the MANY I’ve worked with. Secondly, as @MadMax has said, they just look horrible. 

I’m glad it’s finally warmed up, and the NJSIAA has decided we can wear light blue for baseball now, because I’ve noticed most of these “I only have navy“ guys also do softball and have light blue….But they won’t open the wallet and use half a game fee and buy a black shirt.

[wolfe_man]

In OH (can't speak for other states) we are "given" playoff games after a composite score from the varsity coaches (each can leave a score after every game), the AD and finally our association.  They then average these scores after removing your top two and lowest two scores.  If you didn't have 15 Varsity games, they then give you a low points score for the games you didn't have.  In some associations, even working every night, it is hard to get in 15 Varsity games over a 10 week season, so this gives an advantage to guys in metro areas with more teams available.  The rural guys either have to drive into the big cities or just settle for lower scores as a group.

If you are still rated high enough, then you go into the umpire pool of selection for games the following year.  You have to reply to an email that you will accept a Varsity game in January of that year - if you do not reply, then you do not get a game or games.  From what I've seen, about everyone gets a game in the first round. 

My question (one of many) is this... how do we know the best umpires get selected? In OH, I fully believe it is a good old boys club.  Even the coaches ham it up with the older umpires, which makes me want to umpire with them more as I believe they probably get better scores as a result.  Some of these older gentlemen are still good on the plate, but cannot hardly move from A to B in time to avoid the batter-runner who is rounding first base after a double into the gap.  If you are telling me that they out-scored me when I can still move and rotate very well, then I'd like to see the proof please.  I'd also like honest feedback as to why I was passed over for an umpire that can't run - or is he there simply because he's been around for 25+ years and has connections?  I've had assignors tell me if I were in their organization I'd get better games and get noticed more for state tournament, but I shouldn't have to drive an hour away to be recognized when I have some excellent baseball teams within 5-20 minute drive from my home.  I am honestly starting to believe the best way to work the state semis and finals in OH is just to outlast my peers and do this for 50 years... seriously.

But until they take it more seriously, then I think the whole system is NAVY.  The shirt color & style has come to represent the out-of-date, out-of-touch leadership for my state as far as I am concerned.  I have met some of the men and they are nice, gentle people - but we need to change the way we do things in OH.  Getting rid of the navy color and logo-ed shirts would be my first move, then I'd like to start working on putting a better system in place to put the best umpires on the best games.  The old-boys club has to get broken up in order for change to manifest itself.

I will add that I recognize these are difficult times.  Change, any change, is difficult and needs to be weighed carefully so you don't lose more umpires - which you cannot afford.  But could it be possible that some umpires walk away from the political games and stale conditions that they face currently? Might not change bring in fresh air and fresh bodies and minds?  It's a gamble, but one that could pay off for the greater good if done right.

I will say this, thank God that I am not an assignor.  I truly tip my hat to these guys.  They have a thankless and difficult job trying to find enough guys to fill out all of the games. This year I saw more emails asking for umpires to help out than I ever had, we were literally short by 7+ each night so lots of solos which only leads to more shortages as guys get burnt out.

I'm sitting out the tourney this year and am approaching burnout myself.  I need a few weeks off before summer travel tourney's start.  Last two or three games are this week and then I've earned a two week break.   I've been going every night and every Saturday since March and averaging 3+ plates per week lately. 

[Thunderheads]

Guys, honestly .... let's get off the shirt color crap in a post that has NOTHING to do with shirt color, ok?  It's getting beyond old.  

Turning back playoff games:  Here in Michigan, there's some ridiculous algorithm for choosing state tournament assignments.  Coaches recommendations, associations and assignors recommendations, your test score (which is totally irrelevant), where you're from, and the last time you had a state final.    To address 'where you're from' ... found out that the state will only allow a certain amount of people from a certain area.   For me, I'm in section 2 ... well, as an example, for state finals (not regional/regional finals and quarterfinals) you can only have 'x' number of people going to the semi/finals from a specific region.   What's that boil down to?   They don't assign the 'best' umpires to the semi/finals each year.  And that's a major shame.     And let's not forget that there's politics involved in all of this as well.

For me, ... I got what they call a pre-regional assignment ... a game where 2 district winners play in order to move on to the regional final/quarterfinal tournament day (Saturday).  Ok, that's fine, I'm with a guy who does a great job also, and it's a Division 1 regional (teams w/ the most volume of students at the schools, bigger schools if you will).     One of my friends who I work with every year did get a semi/final invitation, and I'm SO happy for him!  I also found out that others got invitations and quite frankly I was like     I was technically 'due'/'eligible' for state semi/final assignments last year (you're eligible every 4 years), but w/ covid, it's a year behind, so this was my eligible year.  Didn't get it.  That's ok, I've been (2018) and I'm happy for the people who get to go.

All of this to get to my point .... another guy I umpire with was so upset with the selections from the other day .... he handed back his DISTRICT assignment that's given out by your regular assignor!   And, I've also heard of guys giving back their regional assignments due to always being 'looked over'.  So, ... it happens, and sometimes, I understand it.

I had considered NOT making myself available for post-season assignments this year for the state, but I thought, ... "just do it and see what happens."    Based on the last 2 years and what I found out about the process, and, who's been selected ...  I know now that I'm done with 'trying' and will not make myself available for post-season work any longer.  Give me my district, and I'll be done.  On top of it all, ...my interest has been dropping the last couple years.

AND NO ...this post is not 'sour grapes' - I'm perfectly ok with my assignment and not getting a state semi/final invitation. This response is an example of another reason why people 'give back playoff games' 

[Catch18]

We get points by being evaluated by personnel that doesn’t see us play, and by partners we don’t work with - but can meet up at “socials” to have the best ****talk and look good, thereby garnering more PO votes.

I would do everything I can to not turn back a PO game, but I can certainly see circumstances where someone would. Tough choices for sure.

[wolfe_man]

1 hour ago, Catch18 said:

We get points by being evaluated by personnel that doesn’t see us play, and by partners we don’t work with - but can meet up at “socials” to have the best ****talk and look good, thereby garnering more PO votes.

I would do everything I can to not turn back a PO game, but I can certainly see circumstances where someone would. Tough choices for sure.

We have the networking socials too. "Come on out and build up a good name so people can get to know you off the field." Why?  What has this got to do with umpiring? I have met some of the best talkers out there - but they're terrible umpires on the field.  I don't care how well you can talk it if you can't umpire between the lines.  If you can't walk the walk, then you shouldn't get the job just because you are a politician and can shake hands and schmooze a crowd.  This isn't a popularity contest, but should be based on merit.

I'd say a shirt color to represent the attitude of those that have this particular mindset - but I'm trying to avoid being put in the doghouse.

Silly me, here I am thinking life is fair and all that.

 

 

[concertman1971]

4 hours ago, wolfe_man said:

In OH (can't speak for other states) we are "given" playoff games after a composite score from the varsity coaches (each can leave a score after every game), the AD and finally our association.  They then average these scores after removing your top two and lowest two scores.  If you didn't have 15 Varsity games, they then give you a low points score for the games you didn't have.  In some associations, even working every night, it is hard to get in 15 Varsity games over a 10 week season, so this gives an advantage to guys in metro areas with more teams available.  The rural guys either have to drive into the big cities or just settle for lower scores as a group.

If you are still rated high enough, then you go into the umpire pool of selection for games the following year.  You have to reply to an email that you will accept a Varsity game in January of that year - if you do not reply, then you do not get a game or games.  From what I've seen, about everyone gets a game in the first round. 

My question (one of many) is this... how do we know the best umpires get selected? In OH, I fully believe it is a good old boys club.  Even the coaches ham it up with the older umpires, which makes me want to umpire with them more as I believe they probably get better scores as a result.  Some of these older gentlemen are still good on the plate, but cannot hardly move from A to B in time to avoid the batter-runner who is rounding first base after a double into the gap.  If you are telling me that they out-scored me when I can still move and rotate very well, then I'd like to see the proof please.  I'd also like honest feedback as to why I was passed over for an umpire that can't run - or is he there simply because he's been around for 25+ years and has connections?  I've had assignors tell me if I were in their organization I'd get better games and get noticed more for state tournament, but I shouldn't have to drive an hour away to be recognized when I have some excellent baseball teams within 5-20 minute drive from my home.  I am honestly starting to believe the best way to work the state semis and finals in OH is just to outlast my peers and do this for 50 years... seriously.

But until they take it more seriously, then I think the whole system is NAVY.  The shirt color & style has come to represent the out-of-date, out-of-touch leadership for my state as far as I am concerned.  I have met some of the men and they are nice, gentle people - but we need to change the way we do things in OH.  Getting rid of the navy color and logo-ed shirts would be my first move, then I'd like to start working on putting a better system in place to put the best umpires on the best games.  The old-boys club has to get broken up in order for change to manifest itself.

I will add that I recognize these are difficult times.  Change, any change, is difficult and needs to be weighed carefully so you don't lose more umpires - which you cannot afford.  But could it be possible that some umpires walk away from the political games and stale conditions that they face currently? Might not change bring in fresh air and fresh bodies and minds?  It's a gamble, but one that could pay off for the greater good if done right.

I will say this, thank God that I am not an assignor.  I truly tip my hat to these guys.  They have a thankless and difficult job trying to find enough guys to fill out all of the games. This year I saw more emails asking for umpires to help out than I ever had, we were literally short by 7+ each night so lots of solos which only leads to more shortages as guys get burnt out.

I'm sitting out the tourney this year and am approaching burnout myself.  I need a few weeks off before summer travel tourney's start.  Last two or three games are this week and then I've earned a two week break.   I've been going every night and every Saturday since March and averaging 3+ plates per week lately. 

I may copy and paste this and send to the State from one of my random email addresses........

[Richvee]

3 hours ago, Thunderheads said:

Guys, honestly .... let's get off the shirt color crap in a post that has NOTHING to do with shirt color, ok?  It's getting beyond old.  

Maybe we should just change the title of this thread to State playoff selection processes, turnbacks, and other silly state requirements. 

Seriously though. Seems many states have some seriously antiquated procedures and requirements with selection, and uniforms, etc. @wolfe_man's post lays it all out rather well. 

I'm at the point where I don't worry a lot about the process. It's too convoluted to try and figure out, and it's marred with favoritism and head scratching decisions. If I get county tourney or state playoff games, great....If I don't, or they give me one as far from my house as you can get while still being in the same state, I'll just go on without them on the schedule. Yeah, they're fun to work, but I can't lose sleep over the process. As is evident here, there's a lot of us all in the same boat. Seems very few places are actually getting their best umpires on the biggest games. (in good looking uniforms😇)   

[JaxRolo]

I feel you... but you have worked so hard all year why not reward yourself with playoff games.. But I get it...

I normally work 50-60 HS games a year... But this last year I had a knee replacement. So I thought about giving it up... Turns out our HS assignor retired. I got nominated for the position and got voted in....
Wasn't planning on actually working games but ended up working around 20...
We are in playoffs now. I'll be glad when it's over lol... Not an easy job. Especially being short handed...

[Velho]

21 hours ago, SeeingEyeDog said:

The last time I was there, an otherwise pleasant gentleman looked at me and yelled, "Hey! I watch a lot of baseball on TV! Your Mom says you're an umpire...how come I never see you on TV?"

I suspect I will be asked this again and or I am looking forward to "continuing" this discussion so, if anyone has a gentle zinger that I could respond with, I would be grateful...

"The same reason you aren't (and your son will never be) seen on tv" What, too on the nose?

[umpstu]

14 hours ago, Richvee said:

We’ve been down this road before. Obviously the color of your shirt doesn’t  determine your abilities. That said, up here in North Jersey, the odds of getting a top notch partner who replies to my emails with ”I only have navy” is literally 50-1 at best. I can think of 2 off the top of my head that excel on the baseball field out of the MANY I’ve worked with. Secondly, as @MadMax has said, they just look horrible. 

I’m glad it’s finally warmed up, and the NJSIAA has decided we can wear light blue for baseball now, because I’ve noticed most of these “I only have navy“ guys also do softball and have light blue….But they won’t open the wallet and use half a game fee and buy a black shirt.

The last line says it all.  I fought for umpires to be able to wear the black with grey panels for a couple of years before it happened.  Was happy to see a crew go against the regs last season and wear them in a finals. Was also the first umpire to work a final with white on my shoes.  I was not going to buy a new pair of shoes to wear in one game. And was happy