Is timeout automatically called?

[Guest Adam Randle]

This is what happened, runners on 1st and 2nd with 2 outs and the pitcher has the ball off the rubber but still on the mound and the catcher walks to chat with the pitcher. NO timeout has been called and the runner on 1st walks to 2nd base to talk with the runner on 2nd. The pitcher then throws the ball to the 2nd baseman and he tags the runner between 1st and 2nd. The umpires have a meeting and agree that neither of them have officially called timeout and calls the runner out and the inning is over. Just curious if the right call was made?

[Rich Ives]

1 minute ago, Guest Adam Randle said:

This is what happened, runners on 1st and 2nd with 2 outs and the pitcher has the ball off the rubber but still on the mound and the catcher walks to chat with the pitcher. NO timeout has been called and the runner on 1st walks to 2nd base to talk with the runner on 2nd. The pitcher then throws the ball to the 2nd baseman and he tags the runner between 1st and 2nd. The umpires have a meeting and agree that neither of them have officially called timeout and calls the runner out and the inning is over. Just curious if the right call was made?

Yes.

[JonnyCat]

8 hours ago, Guest Adam Randle said:

This is what happened, runners on 1st and 2nd with 2 outs and the pitcher has the ball off the rubber but still on the mound and the catcher walks to chat with the pitcher. NO timeout has been called and the runner on 1st walks to 2nd base to talk with the runner on 2nd. The pitcher then throws the ball to the 2nd baseman and he tags the runner between 1st and 2nd. The umpires have a meeting and agree that neither of them have officially called timeout and calls the runner out and the inning is over. Just curious if the right call was made?

Yes the umpires would be correct by rule if they called the runner out.

However, don't let this happen in any of your games if you're an umpire. If the catcher goes to talk with his pitcher, call time. Especially at the varsity level and above.

Everyone in that situation, including the offense, wants a time out. Don't let the defense get a cheap out like that. The ensuing SH*#storm that will follow far outweighs "being right" by the rulebook.

Even if time is not explicitly called, it's an implied time out that both sides want. Just call time and be done with. Some refer to this as preventative umpiring.

[ArchAngel72]

At the LL level if a catcher goes off like that by himself and did not say anything I would Say time and start dusting the plate... 

Yes its wrong but I do not want that fight later when the OP happens.

I admit though at tournament level I maybe more inclined to do it properly and let it play out

 

[Rich Ives]

2 hours ago, JonnyCat said:

 

However, don't let this happen in any of your games if you're an umpire. If the catcher goes to talk with his pitcher, call time. Especially at the varsity level and above.

 

Maybe it's a set sucker play.  

AND: Catcher should know enough to ask for time at the varsity level and above. Don't help him out.

[Rich Ives]

50 minutes ago, ArchAngel72 said:

At the LL level if a catcher goes off like that by himself and did not say anything I would Say time and start dusting the plate... 

 

And what if he wanders off to pick up his helmet? 

[Mudisfun]

I always enjoy having R3 and F2 wanders out to the mound to talk to F1... definitely no play on since no one is paying attention or covering the plate.

Have mentioned to many F2's that if R3 or their BC was paying any bit of attention, they would have scored without any effort.

Bottom line? If you want time, ask for it. 

And when the inevitable happens, be it the play in the OP, or my scenario with F3 scoring and the coach is less than happy? Hey coach, you have 9 players on the field and 1-10 coaches in the dugout who could have asked for time, OR, you have 1 coach in the dugout and 2 coaching bases, in addition to your runners who could have requested time. Don't put your lack of paying attention on me.

Under HS age, yes, I will do preventative umpiring. HS level? You are on your own. 

[ArchAngel72]

1 hour ago, Rich Ives said:

And what if he wanders off to pick up his helmet? 

that's not a mound visit and its usually not more than a few steps from the plate area.. nope no doing anything with that.

 

[834k3r]

1 hour ago, Rich Ives said:

And what if he wanders off to pick up his helmet? 

OT, but more often than not, I'm the one picking up the catcher's helmet and knocking the dirt from it--especially in LL.

[Velho]

19 minutes ago, 834k3r said:

2 hours ago, Rich Ives said:

And what if he wanders off to pick up his helmet? 

OT, but more often than not, I'm the one picking up the catcher's helmet and knocking the dirt from it--especially in LL.

That's kind of you. I don't do that often but I will give advice (depending on my mood and the game vibe) when catcher has the bad habit of using two hands to put on their mask.

[834k3r]

4 minutes ago, Velho said:

That's kind of you. I don't do that often but I will give advice (depending on my mood and the game vibe) when catcher has the bad habit of using two hands to put on their mask.

I figure that if we advocate "being on the same team" with the catchers, respect and kindness goes both ways.

[noumpere]

2 hours ago, Rich Ives said:

Maybe it's a set sucker play.  

AND: Catcher should know enough to ask for time at the varsity level and above. Don't help him out.

I'll take the crap for the 1-in-a-million trick play to avid the crap for the 1-in-a-hundred times everybody expected time.

[BigBlue4u]

Right or wrong, at every level I have worked from D1 to LL, whenever a catcher goes out to talk with the pitcher with men on base, I just call "time."  So, I have never had a problem like this.

[JonnyCat]

6 hours ago, Rich Ives said:

Maybe it's a set sucker play.  

AND: Catcher should know enough to ask for time at the varsity level and above. Don't help him out.

No. What catcher in their right mind goes to talk to the pitcher and not expect or ask time with runners on? Just no, call time.

3 hours ago, noumpere said:

I'll take the crap for the 1-in-a-million trick play to avid the crap for the 1-in-a-hundred times everybody expected time.

Agree.

1 hour ago, BigBlue4u said:

Right or wrong, at every level I have worked from D1 to LL, whenever a catcher goes out to talk with the pitcher with men on base, I just call "time."  So, I have never had a problem like this.

Exactly! Do this.

[Vegas_Ump]

How many times does the cutoff man walk the ball in from the outfield and he's asking you for time?  (Rant topic #1)

How many times does the third base coach ask for time so his runner can dust off while F5 still has the ball?  (Rant topic #2 - Ask Curacao about that one.)

The umpire is NOT the 10th defensive player nor is he the 3rd Offensive coach.  I think the discussion of  when to use some judgment is good here.  But Rich Ives and I have been on boards before where the term "Punish Stupidity When Possible" applied.

Mike

Las Vegas

[Richvee]

I don’t think there’s a one size fits all answer here. For the most part, I’m fine with calling time when F2 leaves for the mound. 
      But……..

Lets say I have an “ active” r3.  He’s running a few steps down the line every pitch because F 1 is winding up. Daring a throw from F2. He’s on his toes watching F2’s throw back to the mound looking for any miss step that may give him a chance to score. 
F2 catches the next pitch and before I can even say  “ ball” or “ strike”  he’s popped up and heading to the mound to talk to F1 without even turning around and holding up a hand. 
I know R3’s been waiting for something like this and I’m watching him before I think about calling time when no one asked for it. 
     If r3 is heading back to third? Which is 99% if the time, call time. 

[The Man in Blue]

There is no TIME unless there is "TIME!"

If you haven't called time, don't pretend that an "implied time out" exists.  Since you all won't let us proclaim "Dead ball!" then the only thing that can kill it is saying "TIME!"  You want us to say "TIME!" in the evident situation when the ball enters dead ball territory.  You want us to say "TIME!" in the evident situation when a batter gets hit by a pitch.  So why in the hell would there EVER be anything that would be an "implied time" when the ball is live?

Both OBR and NFHS say the ball is live until the umpire calls "TIME!"

 

I'm sure I've told the story on here about a veteran umpire asking me why I call "TIME!" every time I brush off the plate.  At the moment, my answer was "I was taught that.  Habit, I guess."

Later that day, when we had swapped out for another game, he was behind the plate and getting ready to brush it off when a runner came sliding across it.  My answer changed to, "That's why."

Of course, the defense was aggrieved and we had to get together.  I had to stop laughing in order to ask him, "Did you call time?"  He had not.  I said, "I didn't call time.  You didn't call time.  The ball didn't leave the field.  The batter wasn't hit by a pitch.  So why would the ball be dead?"  We let the run stand.  He now calls time before he brushes the plate off.

[beerguy55]

On 8/26/2022 at 6:47 AM, JonnyCat said:

Yes the umpires would be correct by rule if they called the runner out.

However, don't let this happen in any of your games if you're an umpire. If the catcher goes to talk with his pitcher, call time. Especially at the varsity level and above.

Everyone in that situation, including the offense, wants a time out. Don't let the defense get a cheap out like that. The ensuing SH*#storm that will follow far outweighs "being right" by the rulebook.

Even if time is not explicitly called, it's an implied time out that both sides want. Just call time and be done with. Some refer to this as preventative umpiring.

You can't have it both ways...do we want coaches/players to learn that time is granted by umpires and umpires only, or do we want them to expect time to be called any time they want it?  You're advocating umpires to not only start reading minds, but to also then comply with those thoughts without question.

Here's the biggest danger with your position...the first five games of season they have you, or like-minded umps, behind the plate, who call time here...and then in game six F2 strolls out to the mound expecting Blue to call Time...but that guy didn't get your memo.

This could just as easily become a free base for the offense as a free out for the defense...how many times have you seen R3 sprint home in this exact scenario?

 

I'd advocate using reasonable judgment to some degree, but this has to be balanced with not only the game situation, but also with what you want to become a habit or not.

[JonnyCat]

On 8/30/2022 at 11:09 AM, beerguy55 said:

You can't have it both ways...do we want coaches/players to learn that time is granted by umpires and umpires only, or do we want them to expect time to be called any time they want it?  You're advocating umpires to not only start reading minds, but to also then comply with those thoughts without question.

I'm not advocating for that. Just call time even if the catcher doesn't expressly ask for it. Catchers have always asked me for time, so I've never had to deal with this situation personally.

Here's the biggest danger with your position...the first five games of season they have you, or like-minded umps, behind the plate, who call time here...and then in game six F2 strolls out to the mound expecting Blue to call Time...but that guy didn't get your memo.

Shame on him. He'll just have to deal with it and learn the hard way.

This could just as easily become a free base for the offense as a free out for the defense...how many times have you seen R3 sprint home in this exact scenario?

Honestly, I've never seen this happen in any of my games, either as a PU or BU. And who would take that to give up a run in the chance of getting an out in that situation? Are you saying that the defense would purposely not call time with a runner on 3rd, in order to maybe get an out on a runner at another base? Doesn't seem likely to me.

I'd advocate using reasonable judgment to some degree, but this has to be balanced with not only the game situation, but also with what you want to become a habit or not.

I hear what you are saying. I'm just advocating to avoid a SH*#storm.

Maybe this would happen at the younger levels, but at HS and on up, no catcher in their right mind would not want time to talk to their pitcher with runners on base. It just wouldn't happen. If he's walking out, not to give the ridiculous signals catchers do for some sort of defensive play with runners on 1st and 3rd (never understood this), but to talk with his pitcher, just call time, dust off the plate, and wait for him to come back. If you do this, you avoid a headache. If someone says that the defense didn't call time, which would be coming from the defense themselves, you as a PU did to dust off the plate.

To me this is like the coach coming out to talk with his pitcher when the play is relaxed. They usually ask for time, but it's happened to me a number of times that they don't ask for time, even with runners on. I still grant it. Everyone knows whats going on. Everyone is expecting time.

I suppose it could be a designed play to get a cheap out similar to a hidden ball trick, but I've never seen or heard of it.

Not telling anyone how to run their game, do what ever works for you, I don't care. I would call time, and it seems like an easy way to avoid trouble.