BU Indicator

[berns_97]

Required to keep count but only by memory. The BU should keep his clicker in his ball bag along with his Skittles and water.  

No no no.... Not clicker, INDICATOR

​he was joking ......... UmpTTS43 knows that it's called ....

Ik ive seen his posts just wanted to be funny kinda lol

[zm1283]

If you're not going to use your lineup wallet, plate brush, and ball bags on the bases, don't use your indicator either. 

Professional and college umpires that work 2-man games don't use them on the bases either. If both guys just do their job, it isn't an issue. You should be able to keep the count in your head on the bases. What the hell else are you doing that is requiring your attention?

(I'm not sure why this is in the "mechanics" section)

 

Edited April 28, 2015 by zm1283

[noumpere]

I carry one but do not use it during the game.  Two reasons to carry it:

 

1) If PU drops / breaks / loses his, yours can be the backup (of course, he could carry two; I do)

2) If there's a rain delay, I set my indicator.  It's too easy for PU to reset his out of nervous habit, and then we have a backup (and the very act of setting it makes it leass likely for me to forget it)

[catsbackr]

Reasons NOT to use an indicator on the bases:

1.  College and professional baseball umpire training does not teach, advocate nor expect a base umpire to have an indicator on the bases. 

2.  You may miss a balk or a pickoff due to messing with your "clicker". Recent example: I worked a HS JV tourney game the other day with an old man, 75 at least, who was obsessed with his indicator and with brushing off the bases after plays and brushing off the pitcher's plate between innings. One inning he interrupted the pitcher during warmup pitches to brush the pitcher's plate off. Unbelievable!  He also missed a balk due to looking at his GD indicator.  I got it but it was really his call standing in C position.  Guy was a pure smitty.  Got every close call on the bases wrong.  Embarrassing to be on the field with him.   

Those are two very good reasons why you should NOT be using one on the bases. The count belongs to the Plate Umpire. It's his doodoo sandwich to eat if he messes it up.

my .02. Do what you want.   I hope you don't plan on moving up. Lots more important things for a base umpire to do than keep the count. 

​So your reasoning to not carry an indicator on the bases is that they don't carry one in 3/4-man systems and the worst umpire in the world can't keep his eyes off his indicator as an examples of why everyone should not use an indicator on the bases ? How about giving us a sound mechanical reason why we shouldn't. I think the only reason you shouldn't use an indicator on the bases is if you have to look at it during a live ball situation. I have notched mine and don't ever put my eyes on it, even when I'm on the dish (and I can chew gum and walk at the same time).

I think not carrying an indicator on the bases is an old/outdated concept and the reasons for it are no longer valid. The indicator is a tool, use it where you think its appropriate.

​Do This^^^^^^^ and you don't have to look at all the time, you'll know where your starting place is without looking.

[ricka56]

If you're not going to use your lineup wallet, plate brush, and ball bags on the bases, don't use your indicator either. Why not, if you can keep the count in your head without using it (plate or bases) that's fine. But if it is an aid to the BU, why not use it ?

Professional and college umpires that work 2-man games don't use them on the bases either. But if you ask them why, I don't think they can come up with a REAL reason, other than tradition.  If both guys just do their job, it isn't an issue. How does BU carrying an indicator create an issue ?  You should be able to keep the count in your head on the bases. Why shouldn't the PU be able to keep the count in his head ?  What the hell else are you doing that is requiring your attention? If you are, as you say, doing your job, there can be many things vying for your attention on the bases...same (but different things) as for PU.

​So how does BU carrying an indicator create an issue ? A REAL reason...not Smitty doesn't know how to do it right.

Edited April 28, 2015 by ricka56

[ElkOil]

If you're not going to use your lineup wallet, plate brush, and ball bags on the bases, don't use your indicator either. 

What the hell else are you doing that is requiring your attention?

 

​To your fist point, I'd find it interesting to know why you feel keeping the count is both umpires' responsibilities, yet only the PU should have the benefit of an indicator.  It is the sole responsibility of the PU to clean the plate and keep the lineup, but a shared responsibility to keep the count.  PU has it as a primary, true, but to my earlier point, there is no harm done by the BU keeping an indicator as well, so long as he's not a slave to it.

To your second point, there is so much wrong with this question, to answer it would require an umpiring clinic about BU's responsibilities -- which I'm sure you know, which is why I'm so confused by the statement.

Edited April 28, 2015 by ElkOil

[Kevin_K]

Reasons NOT to use an indicator on the bases:

1.  College and professional baseball umpire training does not teach, advocate nor expect a base umpire to have an indicator on the bases. 

2.  You may miss a balk or a pickoff due to messing with your "clicker". Recent example: I worked a HS JV tourney game the other day with an old man, 75 at least, who was obsessed with his indicator and with brushing off the bases after plays and brushing off the pitcher's plate between innings. One inning he interrupted the pitcher during warmup pitches to brush the pitcher's plate off. Unbelievable!  He also missed a balk due to looking at his GD indicator.  I got it but it was really his call standing in C position.  Guy was a pure smitty.  Got every close call on the bases wrong.  Embarrassing to be on the field with him.   

Those are two very good reasons why you should NOT be using one on the bases. The count belongs to the Plate Umpire. It's his doodoo sandwich to eat if he messes it up.

my .02. Do what you want.   I hope you don't plan on moving up. Lots more important things for a base umpire to do than keep the count. 

@Majordave ​Gerry Davis makes an indicator?

[LMSANS]

If you're not going to use your lineup wallet, plate brush, and ball bags on the bases, don't use your indicator either. 

Professional and college umpires that work 2-man games don't use them on the bases either. If both guys just do their job, it isn't an issue. You should be able to keep the count in your head on the bases. What the hell else are you doing that is requiring your attention?

(I'm not sure why this is in the "mechanics" section)

 

​I don't use the lineup wallet because I don't record the changes.

I don't use a plate brush because I don't brush the bases.

I don't use ball bags because I have nothing to do with the supply of baseballs.

I do use an indicator because I backup my partner with the count and I don't see a need to use my limited grey matter to keep track of something that a small inconspicuous tool can handle.

I guess I will never work professional and college games.

Proper use of an indicator is a mechanic.  But I can understand why that would confuse you since you don't use one.

[ZebraStripes]

I dumped my indicator in the field after my crew chief at CDP advised me on it as GHSA didn't want them in the field.  This year, from what I understand, GHSA has flipped on that and now requires that the BU carry and use an indicator.

[ZebraStripes]

ok, I did find from the GHSA Baseball Clinic the following

 

INDICATORS – The field umpire/base umpire shall use a ball/strike/out indicator for ALL GHSA baseball games.

[Welpe]

Welcome to the 2015 Edition of the BU Indicator Argument.

[grayhawk]

I carry one in my pocket and, like @ricka56, mine is notched so it never needs to come out of my pocket for me to know the count.  I don't miss anything on their field due to carrying one.  When I'm on the plate, I don't care one bit if my partner carries one or not, as long as he's doing his job.

Do what your assigner or association requires, if they happen to care.

[ZebraStripes]

I've been thinking about notching my indicators.  How do you have them notched to differentiate?

 

[grayhawk]

I've been thinking about notching my indicators.  How do you have them notched to differentiate?

 

​https://www.ump-attire.com/Baseball-Umpire-Equipment/Bags-Tools/Indicators/UC5-BC_All-Star-4-Dial-Die-Cast-Metal-Umpire-Indicator

 

[DVA7130]

No matter what the situation, I WILL notice if the BU brings an indicator onto the field, and it WILL change my perception of you.

GHSA is trying to get people to use them because the former softball head is now in charge of baseball.........................

I still do not use one, because I want to be professional, and it just looks damn smitty.

Do not bring one.

[Tksjewelry]

I use one when I BU. I did notch it after a discussion on here and very rarely look at it as I can tell by feel what I have for the count. Luckily I carry one as my PU Saturday busted his in the first inning and he was able to use mine but I also keep a spare in my field bag I hang on the fence. 

[MadMax]

My pet peeve, PU that doesn't use an indicator twirling his fingers asking me (with indicator) for the count.

​This is not directed at you, Rick ( @ricka56), but with you pressing that button...

My pet peeve? Seeing my BU giving a field player or a 1BC the count (not the number of outs, _the count_), or flashing it my direction unsolicited. Or, scurrying over to tell the newly-warmed-up F1 who was just brought in by the coach to pitch what "the situation" is, referencing his indicator like it's a divining rod. Or, hearing that "CLICK!" from 98 feet away, and expecting to see a SHBM or SHBF* taking a photo of the "plate group" only to see my BU holding his indicator like a camera (or worse, like a Geiger counter) out in front of him and making. certain. of. turning. every. dial. to. get. the. count. correct. These pet peeves are equal to BU partners that brush off a base. Kick it a few times, sure. Make sure it's moored correctly, no worries. Okay, here we... AreYouFreakin'KiddingMe??!! You'reCallingTimeToBrushOffTheBaseAreYouNuts??!!!

On the other side of the looking glass, I never bring an indicator onto the bases. If I notice that my PU is not so confident in his memory, and is struggling, I'll (continue to) be using my finger-method for keeping the count (I usually start the game doing the finger-method, and drop it after 1-2 batters, after seeing how the PU is doing). If/when a fielder or a base coach asks what the count is, in lieu of my PU partner hearing it and answering, I reply, "My partner's got it." That simple.

I'll have words with any association staff-person that mandates the BU's (must) use an indicator. If a BU wants to, either out of training or habit, that should be their choice. If they use one, do it discreetly, and the PU doesn't even have to be told that they have one.

Now, a pet peeve when I'm BU (or even as a watching baseball enthusiast) of a PU? Announcing the count, often with hand signals, after every pitch.

I agree with @LMSANS that it's a tool, but there are times, in some umpires' right left hand, it becomes a crutch.

* - "S" is for "Single", and "F" is for "Fan". You know the rest. And my hopeful expectations are often crushed.

[ElkOil]

I've been thinking about notching my indicators.  How do you have them notched to differentiate?

 

​I notched mine on Ball 3, Strike 2 and Out 2.  Unless I feel a notch, there's nothing I need to concern myself about as long as I click it properly.  (I know, I know... it's not a clicker.  Hey, it goes "click.")

[RingEmUp]

I don't even like using one as a PU and I definitely don't use one as the BU.  I keep track of the outs and that's it as a BU.  As a PU, I have a bad habit that I keep checking it or playing with the indicator and so for me keeping it in my pocket helps that.  I always have it ready in case I need it but if I can work a game without the crutch of an indicator then I'm much better off.  

[ZebraStripes]

​https://www.ump-attire.com/Baseball-Umpire-Equipment/Bags-Tools/Indicators/UC5-BC_All-Star-4-Dial-Die-Cast-Metal-Umpire-Indicator

 

​That would be sweet in call order.  

[ZebraStripes]

​I notched mine on Ball 3, Strike 2 and Out 2.  Unless I feel a notch, there's nothing I need to concern myself about as long as I click it properly.  (I know, I know... it's not a clicker.  Hey, it goes "click.")

​drop it in the dirt a few times and it could be a hanger

[ZebraStripes]

I did have my indicator in the field with me on Sunday.  Pitch is delivered PU calls ball 4.  I am certain that my indicator reads 3-2.  The defensive team scorekeeper states that the count should be 3-2.  PU points to me and I place 3 left fingers on my chest and 2 right fingers on the other side.  

[Sut'n Blue]

No doubt someone will correct me if I'm wrong but I thought I read somewhere that last year there were six separate occasions where MLB umpires had to use replay to determine the count. Four of the best umpires in the world on the same field and they lose the count. Betcha they wished they had an extra indicator on the field.

There's no reason why a base ump can't use an indicator as effectively and discreetly as the plate ump. If you've umpired you've lost the count more than once. A little insurance won't hurt so why not use this simple tool to our advantage and have the base ump use one? It hurts nothing.

When on bases I ask the plate ump if he minds if I carry one, if he doesn't want me to, I don't. When on the plate I'll tell the base ump that he's welcome to carry an indicator and hope he takes me up on the offer. Yes, it's my job to know the count and I take it seriously but I'm not perfect (just like all of us).

I notch my zeros but ElkOil's notching of ball 3, strike 2, and out 2 seems like an idea worth trying. Not to go too far afield but can anyone explain why they make indicators that include ball 4, strike 3 and out 3?

[ricka56]

I've been thinking about notching my indicators.  How do you have them notched to differentiate?

​I marked where I wanted the notches with a pencil, locked down my hacksaw, and rubbed the indicator along the saw at the markings. 3 notches was hard to fit/distinguish/count, so I made one big flat notch for ball 3 (easy to recognize). It ain't pretty, but I never have to look at it...plate or bases.

[BuckeyeMike]

The one thing not mentioned in the argument of "college and professional umps don't carry one" is that at those levels, you can be fairly certain the scoreboard is correct.  At the JV (and hell, even some Varsity) and below levels, at least in the areas I've worked, nobody is running the scoreboard and if by some miracle it IS running, it's kids on their Gerry Davis cell phones messin up the count anyway.