BU Indicator

[Jimurray]

The one thing not mentioned in the argument of "college and professional umps don't carry one" is that at those levels, you can be fairly certain the scoreboard is correct.  At the JV (and hell, even some Varsity) and below levels, at least in the areas I've worked, nobody is running the scoreboard and if by some miracle it IS running, it's kids on their Gerry Davis cell phones messin up the count anyway. 

​So when I do college and or pro I can look at the scoreboard and not an indicator. Some people do not need indicators on the bases and/or plate. Some do. If you do need an indicator in either position, don't look at it to the detriment of your other responsibilities. It's interesting that the most of the players and coaches need to ask the counts and outs somewhat frequently. 

[Majordave]

@Majordave ​Gerry Davis makes an indicator?

Why yes! He does. I have two of them.  But I was using GD in the potty mouth, I'm a sinner and I'm going to hell sort of way. Apologies to all. 

[MidAmUmp]

I thought there was a glitch with the new software and this topic surely couldn't have 3 pages worth of responses, but I read all 3 pages and now my head hurts and my blood pressure is up.

My thought is this...unless you have less than 3 fingers on each hand, you don't need an indicator on the bases. It's nothing more than a security blankie.

I suppose there might be a time/place for a base umpire to be on "high alert"...those high alert situations usually involve pimples. A partner or score keeper with pimples might send up a red flag. However, I still think you can keep it in your head if you're truly paying attention to the game.

Be good enough that you never rely on your indicator. Even on the plate. Keep it in your head. You'll be amazed at how much better your attention span is. I might glance at my indicator once an inning and it's not notched or anything. 

My final thought, the way we learn rules is by screwing them up. So maybe some of these plate umpires who can't seem to keep track of the count on their own should have to eat a helping of SH*# sandwich and they'll learn to keep track of the count???

[catsbackr]

Pointed tip, wire cutters work pretty well for notching indicators.

[zm1283]

​So how does BU carrying an indicator create an issue ? A REAL reason...not Smitty doesn't know how to do it right.

EVERY time I've seen a baseball or softball umpire on the bases with an indicator, he looks at it constantly. ​

 

 

​I don't use the lineup wallet because I don't record the changes.

I don't use a plate brush because I don't brush the bases.

I don't use ball bags because I have nothing to do with the supply of baseballs.

I do use an indicator because I backup my partner with the count and I don't see a need to use my limited grey matter to keep track of something that a small inconspicuous tool can handle.

I guess I will never work professional and college games.

Proper use of an indicator is a mechanic.  But I can understand why that would confuse you since you don't use one.

​And you shouldn't carry an indicator because you're not working the plate.

Reverse rotating is a mechanic. Whether or not to carry an indicator is not. 

[ricka56]

EVERY time I've seen a baseball or softball umpire on the bases looking at his indicator constantly, he looks at it constantly. ​

​I fixed the above sentence for you. Smitty is the exception to the rule, not the rule.

If you were PU and I was BU, you would think that I wasn't carrying an indicator...actually you wouldn't have noticed anything at all, which I suspect is what happens with you the other 99% of the time that Smitty isn't working.

[zm1283]

I thought there was a glitch with the new software and this topic surely couldn't have 3 pages worth of responses, but I read all 3 pages and now my head hurts and my blood pressure is up.

My thought is this...unless you have less than 3 fingers on each hand, you don't need an indicator on the bases. It's nothing more than a security blankie.

I suppose there might be a time/place for a base umpire to be on "high alert"...those high alert situations usually involve pimples. A partner or score keeper with pimples might send up a red flag. However, I still think you can keep it in your head if you're truly paying attention to the game.

Be good enough that you never rely on your indicator. Even on the plate. Keep it in your head. You'll be amazed at how much better your attention span is. I might glance at my indicator once an inning and it's not notched or anything. 

My final thought, the way we learn rules is by screwing them up. So maybe some of these plate umpires who can't seem to keep track of the count on their own should have to eat a helping of SH*# sandwich and they'll learn to keep track of the count???

​BUT BUT BUT what if your partner loses/breaks his during the game!!!!!???? (I can't figure out how either would ever happen) You have to be there to save the day as the base umpire!! The humanity!

[ElkOil]

Like @MidAmAUmp, I am surprised this simple topic is taking up so many pages and garners such an impassioned response by so many.  If an ump uses a clicker (yes, I called it a clicker.  Because is goes "click") to the detriment of his performance or the game, the problem lies not with the tool, but with his use of it.  If someone is unable to properly use something, the solution isn't to prevent him from using it, but improving his use of it.  If we have trouble with a mechanic, we don't abandon the mechanic, we work at getting better.  If you're a carpenter and keep smashing your thumb with your hammer, you don't become a no-hammer-owning carpenter.  If you're a chef and keep cutting your finger, you don't stop using knives.  So advocating getting rid of a clicker just because someone can't use it properly confuses me.  I don't follow the logic.

[BretMan]

​BUT BUT BUT what if your partner loses/breaks his during the game!!!!!???? (I can't figure out how either would ever happen)...

​This happened to me one time out of a zillion games (well, probably out of over 800 plate games).

Pitch gets fouled back and goes straight to my left hand. I open my hand and my indicator falls out in about a dozen pieces- plastic shards, springs, wheels...

But I didn't steal my base umpire's. I just manned up and kept the count in my head.

[ElkOil]

​This happened to me one time out of a zillion games (well, probably out of over 800 plate games).

Pitch gets fouled back and goes straight to my left hand. I open my hand and my indicator falls out in about a dozen pieces- plastic shards, springs, wheels...

But I didn't steal my base umpire's. I just manned up and kept the count in my head.

​I would have just reached in my pocket and took out my backup indicator.

[kylehutson]

​This happened to me one time out of a zillion games (well, probably out of over 800 plate games).

Pitch gets fouled back and goes straight to my left hand. I open my hand and my indicator falls out in about a dozen pieces- plastic shards, springs, wheels...

But I didn't steal my base umpire's. I just manned up and kept the count in my head.

Same thing happened to me. It was a rec league game where the teenagers that were umping didn't have their own equipment, so I knew there was a spare in the crow's nest. I had them toss me a spare.

[Cav]

I don't carry an indicator when working the bases, but I once wore a pedometer during a 3-man series to see in which base position I moved more.  It turned out to be more worthless than an indicator out there.

[UmpJeff]

​I would have just reached in my pocket and took out my backup indicator.

​I thought you called it a "clicker"...

Glad to see you use the correct term.

[lawump]

If you want to look like an amateur umpire, carry an indicator (and/or a brush and/or wear a ball bag) on the bases.  If you want to be one step closer to looking like a professional umpire working amateur baseball, leave the indicator in the locker room. 

I only work high school, legion and college.  On the rare occasions when I had a partner take an indicator out on the bases with him, I correctly guessed the quality of his umpiring ability (or lack thereof) early in the first inning.  That's a fact.

You all can flame me, rant me, scream at me...whatever you want...but having an indicator on the bases is one of the strongest indicators (pardon the pun) that I am working with a weak partner.  Whether one is causative of the other, or whether it is coincidence, I don't know.  I just know it is a fact.

It is the plate umpire's responsibility to keep track of balls and strikes.  Let him do his job.  If a player on the field asks me (as base umpire) the count, I just signal (or ask) my partner to give the count.

[ElkOil]

​I thought you called it a "clicker"...

Glad to see you use the correct term.

​Eh, I go back and forth.  Sometimes I call it a clicker, sometimes an indicator.  Sometimes a counter.

[ElkOil]

I am thoroughly fascinated by this umpiring sub-culture.  We have two distinct camps on this and judgement of each other a-plenty. Incredible.

[grayhawk]

If you want to look like an amateur umpire, carry an indicator (and/or a brush and/or wear a ball bag) on the bases.  If you want to be one step closer to looking like a professional umpire working amateur baseball, leave the indicator in the locker room. 

I only work high school, legion and college.  On the rare occasions when I had a partner take an indicator out on the bases with him, I correctly guessed the quality of his umpiring ability (or lack thereof) early in the first inning.  That's a fact.

You all can flame me, rant me, scream at me...whatever you want...but having an indicator on the bases is one of the strongest indicators (pardon the pun) that I am working with a weak partner.  Whether one is causative of the other, or whether it is coincidence, I don't know.  I just know it is a fact.

It is the plate umpire's responsibility to keep track of balls and strikes.  Let him do his job.  If a player on the field asks me (as base umpire) the count, I just signal (or ask) my partner to give the count.

​That's fine, except that some associations (like ours) require base umpires to carry an indicator.

[Sut'n Blue]

​Eh, I go back and forth.  Sometimes I call it a clicker, sometimes an indicator.  Sometimes a counter.

I kinda like "indiclickor."

[jkumpire]

I'm confused, the thread title says "BU indicator". Does that mean someone has developed a new indicator for Base Umpires? How does it work? What is it like? Does it beep? Does it order pizza for the crew in the bottom of the 6th or 8th? 

Does it sweep the pitcher's plate between innings too? Can i get it at the Umpire-Empire Store?

 

 

 

Edited April 30, 2015 by jkumpire

[jkumpire]

I kinda like "indiclickor."

​Isn't that the name of a James Bond movie from the 70's?

Edited April 30, 2015 by jkumpire

[Kevin_K]

I don't use an indiclickerator (my new preferred terminology for this piece of equipment) on the bases out of personal choice.

No one has ever asked me about it, evaluated me on it, or even cared whether or not I do or do not have one. No one has ever checked to see if I was wearing a cup in the field - I do. No one has ever checked to see if my base cap is 4 stitch, 6 stitch, or 8 stitch - its 8.

My evaluations have always been upon my mechanics, my judgment, my game management, and my effervescent personality.

That's why I hope to graduate this year from t-ball to coach pitch.

[ElkOil]

​I thought you called it a "clicker"...

Glad to see you use the correct term.

​Actually, I should be true to my Boston roots and call it a "clickah."

Edited May 1, 2015 by ElkOil

[ZebraStripes]

If you want to look like an amateur umpire, carry an indicator (and/or a brush and/or wear a ball bag) on the bases.  If you want to be one step closer to looking like a professional umpire working amateur baseball, leave the indicator in the locker room. 

I only work high school, legion and college.  On the rare occasions when I had a partner take an indicator out on the bases with him, I correctly guessed the quality of his umpiring ability (or lack thereof) early in the first inning.  That's a fact.

You all can flame me, rant me, scream at me...whatever you want...but having an indicator on the bases is one of the strongest indicators (pardon the pun) that I am working with a weak partner.  Whether one is causative of the other, or whether it is coincidence, I don't know.  I just know it is a fact.

It is the plate umpire's responsibility to keep track of balls and strikes.  Let him do his job.  If a player on the field asks me (as base umpire) the count, I just signal (or ask) my partner to give the count.

​As you are a lawyer, you know quite well that it is not a fact.  It is your opinion that you formed based on those that you have been around (a relatively small sample size).  A judge would not accept it as fact and you know it.

ASA (that similar sport that some of you don't acknowledge) requires BU to sweep the pitching plate with a plate brush between innings.  

[ricka56]

My thought is this...unless you have less than 3 fingers on each hand, you don't need an indicator on the bases....However, I still think you can keep it in your head if you're truly paying attention to the game.

It is the plate umpire's responsibility to keep track of balls and strikes.  Let him do his job.  If a player on the field asks me (as base umpire) the count, I just signal (or ask) my partner to give the count.

​1. So, does the BU even have to concern himself with the count at all ? If they memorize it, fine, but if they lose the count, no one cares ?
2. If F6 asks BU for the count, is the proper reaction not to answer the question, signal your partner and have him announce the count ? even though you know that the count is 2-2, let PU announce 2-2 ?
3. Is the reason that some BU's don't use an indicator because they don't concern themselves with keeping the count ?

If BU should know the count at all times, I don't understand why anyone would have a problem with the way they achieve that task. It's like like being looked down upon because an umpire isn't wearing poly-wools or his sunglasses aren't Oakley's. That kind of snobbery is a "them problem", not a "me problem". And if my evaluator makes it a "me problem" and that's the worst "me problem" on his list, then "me happy".

[JHSump]

I am not a professional umpire, but I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night...

That said, here is what I have picked up from this U-E discussion, and a college umpire that has mentored me. Perhaps this will help explain the "no BU indicator" side.

Someone has to keep the count, regardless of the presence of a scoreboard, or scoreboard operator skill. OBR 9.05(a)(2) says the PU must keep track of the count --- it's his job. (Fed? I'd have to look.)

If you don't use an indicator on the bases, then you can watch all the subtle routines of the pitcher. Yes, if your indicator is notched, you can probably get away without looking at it. But many BUs I see with indicators are constantly looking at it between pitches. That sort of action concerns me. What happens if there is a balk or pick at the moment BU has his eyes on his indicator? And, with practice, you can keep the count in your head. It keeps you in the game.

If there is a dispute, the PU's count is the official count (see the rules, again).

In the games I work (e.g., HS and lower, even much lower), the pitchers are very creative in how --- and when --- they violate pitching rules. Often other action on the field is weird too. It is all I can do to keep track of all that on the bases, without having to (even occasionally) look at an indicator.

If your association says you must use an indicator on the bases, then do so. What they say is what you must do.

When my partner and I are going over the coveage before a game, and I am BU, I tell him that I don't keep an indicator on the bases and I give him the reason: so I can continually watch the pitcher and the ball, etc., so he can concentrate on his very complicated job. That way he has one less thing to worry about. I also ask if he gives the count often. Usually they do, or will do so since I am not "using an indicator." This keeps all the players and coaches from asking --- they see the count often. If the PU does flash the count often, that also alleviates my having to keep track in my head. If they don't, I keep it in my head. Regardless, I do keep the number of outs in my head, but we flash that to each other after each one anyway (usually, and I flash the number of outs to the PU if he does not).

When a coach asks me the count (as happened last night), I simply say, "Make sure you ask him. His count is the official count." They promplty ask the PU, and never ask me again. They don't seem to get hung up on this, since I don't make a big deal of it (I say it in a non-confrontational tone). If a coach or player asks for the number of outs, I simply flash to him the number of fingers for outs. If a player wants to know the count, I pat my hat to get the PU to give the count.

Bottom line: the BU has enough duties to take care of. Looking at an indicator is distracting from my job as BU. The PU has enough duties (including keeping the official count), so having a BU free to watch the ball and pitcher at all times is a great help for the PU.