Mechanics, nobody on or R3 only

[GreyhoundAggie]

Hey gents.

 

Quick mechanics question out of curiousity.

 

Wanted to poll you guys and see if you do it any differently.

 

Nobody on.

 

Book mechanic is for the PU to rotate to 3rd and the BU to rotate to home if needed.

 

Clinic's and most guys I work with, as well as me, have the BU take him all the way to 3rd, no need for PU to rotate up.

 

R3 only

 

I had a partner who said he plays this as the PU rotates up to third and treats is like Nobody on when there is a clean hit. This guy is a board member and called for over 10 years.

 

I told him I had always treated it like Nobody on. PU takes BR all the way and PU stays home.

 

Just wanted to see if I am off base on this?

[Jocko]

Fed mech has PU rotate on BR into 3B. I always always always pregame that BU has the BR to all bags. No reason to rotate if it's routine and nothing weird happens (like BU falls down). R3, PU rotates (in foul territory) prepared to make a call at the cutout if needed. Once the play develops and you read it coming into 3B you glance over your shoulder at R3 touching the dish, moving into fair at the cutout. So says PBUC2Man.

[GreyhoundAggie]

Thanks Jocko.

 

That's interesting. I would just think with R3 only it makes no sense to have the PU up at 3rd. BU can handle him all the way.

 

And yes, definitely stay in the library (foul area), until a play develops, then move into the cutout.

[SnareDrum]

I prefer to take the BR to 3rd with nobody on and I'll cover that in the pregame. If my partner prefers otherwise, I'm cool with it, but it's what I prefer. A lot of my BU mechanics involve the PU staying home, partly because they grow roots and stay there the whole time anyway (City League, not HS) I'm ever so slowly chipping away at them though.

[sdix00]

 

PBUC 2 Man

With a runner on 3rd base only, on an obvious base hit to the outfield 

(i.e., no possible fair/foul or catch/no catch on the play), the plate umpire 

will stay home, and the base umpire will have responsibility for all plays 

at 1st, 2nd, and 3rd. The plate umpire will have responsibility for all 

touches of home plate, and the base umpire is  responsible for all

touches at 1st, 2nd, and 3rd.

[Jocko]

 

PBUC 2 ManWith a runner on 3rd base only, on an obvious base hit to the outfield (i.e., no possible fair/foul or catch/no catch on the play), the plate umpire will stay home, and the base umpire will have responsibility for all plays at 1st, 2nd, and 3rd. The plate umpire will have responsibility for all touches of home plate, and the base umpire is  responsible for all touches at 1st, 2nd, and 3rd.

aha... What was I (mis)remembering? I'm at work. Will look it up when I get home unless someone beats me to it.

[grayhawk]

 

 

PBUC 2 Man

With a runner on 3rd base only, on an obvious base hit to the outfield 

(i.e., no possible fair/foul or catch/no catch on the play), the plate umpire 

will stay home, and the base umpire will have responsibility for all plays 

at 1st, 2nd, and 3rd. The plate umpire will have responsibility for all 

touches of home plate, and the base umpire is  responsible for all

touches at 1st, 2nd, and 3rd.

 

Thank you.  I thought I was misreading every previous post.  Why in the world would PU rotate up to third in either of these cases?  Only reason I can think of is that BU has poor mobility.

[Big Red]

What I was used to before working HS is in line with MLB/PBUC mechanics.  As sdix points out from PBUC, which is seconded in Jim Evans' Maximizing the Two-Umpire System, with nobody on:  BU takes BR all the way to 3rd.  R3:  BU takes all plays at 1st, 2nd, 3rd.

 

As I started my HS training, clinics, etc, I had an epiphany about the Fed mechanic where PU rotates to 3rd in these situations, especially when everybody I asked couldn't provide a reason why. 

After attending the state meeting/ a regional training clinic, and reflected in most chapters I've encountered, the ages of some of these guys are only rivaled by their waistlines.  With nobody on, I've worked with guys who can hardly make the pivot, even with a strong tailwind, to pick up the BR on an extra-base hit.  Most don't even pivot...they "glide" toward 2nd, and are usually behind the runner even at that point, so being in a position to make a call at 3rd is a foregone conclusion.

 

During pre-game when I'm BU, I always tell the guys I work with that I'll take BR into 3rd.  With some of them, I can't even finish the sentence before they are agreeing.  Of the many guys I've worked with, only one of them has pre-gamed he'll rotate as PU to pick up BR into 3rd since he didn't like to just sit behind home plate.  He's a spry 60 years young, in great shape and God bless him, we had that very situation and he was there!

Not meant as a slam to anyone in particular, just stating facts and what I believe to be the rationale behind the Fed mechanics though there may very well be another reason(s) for them.

[Richvee]

 

 

 

PBUC 2 Man

With a runner on 3rd base only, on an obvious base hit to the outfield 

(i.e., no possible fair/foul or catch/no catch on the play), the plate umpire 

will stay home, and the base umpire will have responsibility for all plays 

at 1st, 2nd, and 3rd. The plate umpire will have responsibility for all 

touches of home plate, and the base umpire is  responsible for all

touches at 1st, 2nd, and 3rd.

 

Thank you.  I thought I was misreading every previous post.  Why in the world would PU rotate up to third in either of these cases?  Only reason I can think of is that BU has poor mobility.

I know no one like the FED mechanics but they do have PU rotate to 3rd on a hit with the bases empty and BU staying in. I'm not sating I like it or not, but my association expects us to use the FED mechanics. So I do. 

[grayhawk]

 

 

 

 

PBUC 2 Man

With a runner on 3rd base only, on an obvious base hit to the outfield 

(i.e., no possible fair/foul or catch/no catch on the play), the plate umpire 

will stay home, and the base umpire will have responsibility for all plays 

at 1st, 2nd, and 3rd. The plate umpire will have responsibility for all 

touches of home plate, and the base umpire is  responsible for all

touches at 1st, 2nd, and 3rd.

 

Thank you.  I thought I was misreading every previous post.  Why in the world would PU rotate up to third in either of these cases?  Only reason I can think of is that BU has poor mobility.

I know no one like the FED mechanics but they do have PU rotate to 3rd on a hit with the bases empty and BU staying in. I'm not sating I like it or not, but my association expects us to use the FED mechanics. So I do. 

 

We use CCA in our association, so it's no wonder I never learned it that way.

[Jocko]

Aggie, I was indeed misquoting. What I had mixed in was R1/R3. I jumbled them together. My deepest aapologies to all. :notworthy:

[BT_Blue]

Thank God that both Oregon and Washington have slid more towards CCA and away from the nutty FED mechanics such as PU rotating to third on a clean base hit and none on.

[GreyhoundAggie]

Aggie, I was indeed misquoting. What I had mixed in was R1/R3. I jumbled them together. My deepest aapologies to all.

 

Hehe. No worries. I looked it up in my book that my association gives us and they have PU rotating to 3rd with R3 only on a base hit. I just usually signal to my partner i have everything as BU and they are good with it. It's a stupid mechanic.

[SoCal Lurker]

Random aside from a non-ump:  for those of you who do varying levels, does the association typically "pick" a set of mechancis for all games covered by the association, or do you have to go back and forth between different sets of mechanics depending on the game you are doing? 

[noumpere]

With no one on you can make a case (but not a strong one) for PU covering third.

 

With R3 to start, then BU is already in the middle so theres no need for PU to cover third.

 

But mechanics change over time and at different rates at different levels so cover it in your pregame.  Theres only one thing worse than having two umpires at a base and that's having no umpires at the base.

[grayhawk]

Random aside from a non-ump:  for those of you who do varying levels, does the association typically "pick" a set of mechancis for all games covered by the association, or do you have to go back and forth between different sets of mechanics depending on the game you are doing? 

 

The only association that "subscribes" to a set of mechanics where I work is HS, and their choice is CCA.  When I work travel ball or Pony, they don't mandate any specific set of mechanics - we just cover everything in the pregame (which many times I have to force my partner to "endure").  LL West region teaches pro mechanics based on Jim Evans for the big field, and then makes appropriate modifications for the small diamond.

[Guest]

Now I understand why you guys are so hell-bent on a pre-game. Not saying that this is a bad thing, but thanks to the OBA / B-Can getting everyone in the province on the same page, I can bang mine out with a new partner in 5 minutes or less.

[NFUA_44]

Random aside from a non-ump:  for those of you who do varying levels, does the association typically "pick" a set of mechancis for all games covered by the association, or do you have to go back and forth between different sets of mechanics depending on the game you are doing? 

Depends on what the Assn. is about.  Alot of them have a primary focus on a specific level and will adopt that levels specific mechanics, i.e. FED for HS, CCA for College, etc.  Some of the bigger associations, especially in bigger area's, have programs broken into "units", i.e. Rec, HS, JUCO, College, and can adopt different mechanics, but most will stick with one set to keep things a little simpler.

 

Both of my College Assn's use CCA of course, and each has a couple quirks on how things are done on a State Specific level.  The HS group I belong to has used CCA for several years, though I think the State of FL is still under FED Mechanics with a growing movement towards going to CCA.  To the best of my knowledge a majority of Local FL HS Assn.'s use CCA and then hold a FED "refresher" class just prior to playoffs beginning for those that get assigned.

[BalkHawk]

I've never heard this mechanic before, but I'm going to start using it.

[Jocko]

I've never heard this mechanic before, but I'm going to start using it.

??? Which mech are you refering to ???

[BalkHawk]

the rotation I mean. rotating to third for play on b/r.

[GreyhoundAggie]

But the mechanic is for the PU to stay home on these situations?

[bam]

Now I'm lost on this one.  What's the CCA rotation with a runner on 1st?  What about 1st and 3rd?  And do those rotations differ from standard FED? 

[noumpere]

Now I'm lost on this one.  What's the CCA rotation with a runner on 1st?  What about 1st and 3rd?  And do those rotations differ from standard FED? 

 

With R1 only -- PU has plays on R1 at third and home, even if the batted ball never leaves the infield.

 

With R1 and R3 -- PU has plays on R1 at third only if the batted ball leaves the infield (hit, or dropped fly in the outfield).

 

I don't like the first mechanic but I use it.  I'd prefer that BU has all the plays in the infield if the batted ball doesn't leave the infield.

 

I don't know what standard FED says about this.

[Richvee]

 

Now I'm lost on this one.  What's the CCA rotation with a runner on 1st?  What about 1st and 3rd?  And do those rotations differ from standard FED? 

 

With R1 only -- PU has plays on R1 at third and home, even if the batted ball never leaves the infield.

 

With R1 and R3 -- PU has plays on R1 at third only if the batted ball leaves the infield (hit, or dropped fly in the outfield).

 

I don't like the first mechanic but I use it.  I'd prefer that BU has all the plays in the infield if the batted ball doesn't leave the infield.

 

I don't know what standard FED says about this.

Question on our NJ FED test this year.

 

On any plays in the infield on a batted ground ball the base ump..

 

a. Has all calls at all the bases except home

 

b. Plate ump has the runner going from 1st to 3rd on the ground ball

 

c. Plate ump has to cover any play at 3rd on ground balls on the 2nd play in the infield. 

 

Correct answer is A. 

 

I have to look up your 2nd question, but I think FED has PU staying home with R1, R3.