Non pivot foot knee

[agdz59]

Working a 10u tournament this weekend. I'm on the bases in C with R2.  

The pitcher sets, then raises his leg and pitches with his knee going past his pivot leg before committing to home.

I called nothing but between innings the offensive coach asked about it because his runner started back to second. 

What say you?

[pnewton]

I have no problem as described. Foot can go behind pitchers plate and still come home, I would say same for the knee.  Possible there is something really funky but I don't see it in my head from this description.

[Senor Azul]

From the 2018 Minor League Baseball Umpire Manual (section 6.19, p. 101):

When a pitcher swings any part of his free foot past the back edge of the pitcher’s rubber, it is a balk if he does not pitch to the batter, unless he throws (or feints a throw) to second base on a pickoff play. (Note that this violation is in reference only to the pitcher’s foot. If the knee of the pitcher’s free leg passes behind the back edge of the rubber but his foot does not, he may legally throw to first base with no violation.)

[The Man in Blue]

NFHS also speaks to the foot, not the knee, and essentially goes the same way.

Rule 6 Pitching

SECTION 2 INFRACTIONS BY PITCHER

ART. 4 . . . Balk. If there is a runner or runners, any of the following acts by a pitcher while he is touching the pitcher’s plate is a balk:

f. failing to pitch to the batter when the entire non-pivot foot passes behind the perpendicular plane of the back edge of the pitcher’s plate, except when feinting or throwing to second base in an attempt to put out a runner.

Once the non-pivot foot crosses behind the back edge, the pitcher can either (1) continue the pitch to the batter, or (2) attempt a pickoff or feint to second base.  Nothing illegal in what you describe.

 

Wait ... 10u was leading off?!  That’s awesome.

[agdz59]

Thanks everyone.  Thought I had it right.  :-)

[Senor Azul]

Mr. Jimurray, have you joined Ozzy Osbourne on the crazy train? Why else would you be following this guy from thread to thread harassing him? He has done nothing except ask for our help. Isn’t that why we are here? You should be mentoring him and not hectoring him. This is beneath you and I think you should apologize. And I also think the moderators should delete your post.

Mr. agdz59, if you have any questions in the future I would be happy to answer them if I can. If you prefer, you could PM me and I would respond with a helpful attitude and would not berate you or demean you. And I certainly would not be discussing BMs with you.

[The Man in Blue]

Don’t forget that the pivot foot bone is connected to the pivot knee bone ... the pivot knee bone is connected to the hip bone ...the hip bone is connected to the BM bone?  Kind of gives new meaning to “passing a preceding runner”.  Ouch.

  is happening here?

[yawetag]

8 hours ago, Jimurray said:

I am mentoring him. Read 3 pages while having a BM.

My boss is already commenting on the time I'm in the restroom at work. Imagine if I took a rules book with me!

[ArchAngel72]

9 hours ago, Jimurray said:

I am mentoring him. Read 3 pages while having a BM.

Thanks for the visual, good to know what you are doing on the Jon

 

I have 4 copies of the green manual 2 digital 1 on my phone 1 on my iPad, 1 is always in my equip bag, the other is on my table near the TV

So  ultimately here is the thing People come here to post and ask questions 

1. because they cannot find it in the manual

2. because they found it and they want someone elses interpretation on it

3. because they found it and they do not understand it as it is written and are looking for help understanding it

So why are you preaching go read the F  manual?  hmmm?

2 threads and you are upset with people asking questions they are looking for help Jim please try to be helpful instead of snarky

 

[grayhawk]

For reference, only the NCAA requires F1 to either step and throw to second or pitch to the batter when the knee of the free foot leg (any part of the stride leg) crosses the back edge of the rubber.

[Jimurray]

2 hours ago, agdz59 said:

Thanks everyone.  Thought I had it right.  :-)

You would have known you got it right if you had leafed 3 pages every BM. For anyone confused by this post see: 

 

[Jimurray]

24 minutes ago, Senor Azul said:

Mr. Jimurray, have you joined Ozzy Osbourne on the crazy train? Why else would you be following this guy from thread to thread harassing him? He has done nothing except ask for our help. Isn’t that why we are here? You should be mentoring him and not hectoring him. This is beneath you and I think you should apologize. And I also think the moderators should delete your post.

Mr. agdz59, if you have any questions in the future I would be happy to answer them if I can. If you prefer, you could PM me and I would respond with a helpful attitude and would not berate you or demean you. And I certainly would not be discussing BMs with you.

I am mentoring him. Read 3 pages while having a BM.

[Jimurray]

22 hours ago, Senor Azul said:

Mr. Jimurray, have you joined Ozzy Osbourne on the crazy train? Why else would you be following this guy from thread to thread harassing him? He has done nothing except ask for our help. Isn’t that why we are here? You should be mentoring him and not hectoring him. This is beneath you and I think you should apologize. And I also think the moderators should delete your post.

Mr. agdz59, if you have any questions in the future I would be happy to answer them if I can. If you prefer, you could PM me and I would respond with a helpful attitude and would not berate you or demean you. And I certainly would not be discussing BMs with you.

I'm not stalking him. He chimed in on another thread that newbies should take the field before groking all the rules. I don't disagree. But I see many newbies never get back into the book. Thus the phone call after that JV game about whatever rule kick they had. He made some valid points about the ambiguity in the rules and interps and that we shouldn't keep a newbie off the field until he grasped everything. In that thread I suggested that thread's OP,  @ArchAngel72, get more into reading the book occasionally because aside from the valid question that he had, he kicked a basic passing the runner rule as to who was out.  One technique is to advise new umpires finishing clinics to put the book on the toilet tank. I don't know if you have heard that advice but I've heard it and also given it. Would using "throne" rather than BM be less offensive to you?