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Senor Azul

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Everything posted by Senor Azul

  1. The Comment to 2019 NFHS Case Book Play 2.9.1 Situation C should give you what you are looking for— COMMENT: …A fielder’s status, generally, is determined by the location of his feet, and when a foot is touching a boundary line or the playing field inside the boundary line, he has not left the playing field, even though his other foot might be in contact with the area beyond the boundary line. Umpires may use the following guidelines to determine the status of a fielder following the catch of a batted or thrown live ball: (1) It is a catch when he has one or both feet touching the playing field, or with both feet in flight prior to his touching any dead-ball area. (2) If after making the catch both feet are entirely in a dead-ball area, the ball becomes dead. (3) If the ball is caught after he has established his position outside the playing field, it is not a legal catch. Also remember that whenever a dead ball follows a catch, there are instances when one or more runners may be awarded bases. (5-1-1i, 8-3-3d) I think this case play makes it clearer than the other case plays 5.1.1 Situation L and P. Also, you should keep in mind that a player may leave the ground in live ball territory and while in the air make a legal catch. He is not actually required by the rule to have one foot touching live ball territory.
  2. Mr. ricka56, I would say that you could use the same phrase for NCAA. From the 2019-2020 College Baseball Rules Study Guide by George Demetriou concerning RLI (p. 37): (5) The quality of the throw is a factor. Interference should not be declared if the throw has no realistic chance of retiring the batter-runner. A violation may occur if the batter-runner is out of the lane on either side. It depends on from where the throw is made… And on pages 39-40 the following case plays appear: Play 2-50 B1 is called out on strike three. The pitch gets away from F2 and rolls toward the first base dugout. B1 is running in fair territory about two-thirds of the way to first when he is struck by F2’s throw. Ruling: The play stands. F2 made an errant throw. Although B1 was not in the lane, his position did not interfere with F3 taking a quality throw. Play 2-51 B1 is called out on strike three. The pitch gets away from F2 and rolls along the first-base line extended. B1 is running in fair territory about two-thirds of the way to first when F2 realizes he does not have a line of sight to F3. He throws the ball over B1. F3 leaps but cannot reach the ball. Ruling: B1 is out for interference. Although F2 made an errant throw, it was attributable to B1 being outside the lane. His position interfered with F2 making a quality throw.
  3. The most likely result is a fielder’s choice as Mr. JSam21 posted. A scorer would draw a line from home to first in the book with a notation of FC and since R2’s interference was the third out the batter-runner would be counted as a runner left on base per rule 9.02(g). But there is another possible outcome for the batter—he could be credited with a hit as per rule 9.05(b)(5). 2021 OBR 9.05(b) The Official Scorer shall not credit a base hit when a: (5) (runner) is called out for interference with a fielder attempting to field a batted ball, unless in the scorer’s judgment the batter-runner would have been safe had the interference not occurred.
  4. So in this particular case (using OBR for simplicity), the defense could appeal that the walked batter didn't get to first base? Even though a 3rd out was made before he got there, so it would be pointless for him to continue? No, there is no advantageous fourth out to be had here under OBR. By rule the batter-runner is considered to have reached base-- 2021 OBR 9.02(g) Number of runners left on base by each team. This total shall include all runners who get on base by any means and who do not score and are not put out. The Official Scorer shall include in this total a batter-runner whose batted ball results in another runner being retired for the third out. The following can be found in the 2016 BRD (section 3, pp. 15-16) Play 2-3: R3, R2, 2 outs. B1 singles to the outfield but injures himself coming out of the box. He cannot continue. R3 scores easily, but R2 is thrown out at home: 3 outs. The catcher then fires to F3, who tags first in advance of BR. Ruling: In FED/NCAA, cancel R3’s run. In OBR, the run scores, as per … OBR Official Interpretation 4-3: Wendelstedt: Play 2-3 does not qualify to become an apparent (advantageous) fourth out. It is made on a runner who has not yet reached a base, not on one who has missed a base or has not properly tagged up from one.
  5. If a consecutive runner is out for abandonment before his advance base on a batted ball, the out is not a force out (the force of the abandoning runner is removed by his own actions). However, an appeal of the abandoned base as a missed base is a force out, and can be upheld for an advantageous fourth out (see Example 2 below). Note that abandonment does not remove the force against runners ahead of the abandoning runner; this stipulation prevents a runner from abandoning the basepaths, intentionally or otherwise, and removing the force against a runner ahead of him. Example 2--R3, R1, game tied at 2-2, bottom of the ninth inning, 2 outs. Base hit. R3 touches home plate as the apparent winning run and the batter-runner touches first, but R1 goes to join in the celebration at home plate without advancing to (or near) second base: R1 is out for abandonment, but this is not a force out, and the run can score if it preceded the abandonment (time play). If the defense were to appeal that R1 had not touched second, there would be a force out, and no run. In cases where an apparent winning run precedes abandonment (time play), the umpires should signal the out for abandonment and the time play, but should not otherwise indicate to the defense that anything unusual has occurred. Of course, the umpires must be aware of the possibility of an appeal by the defense that could result in a force out, negating the winning run(s). Umpires must observe the playing field until all infielders (including the pitcher) have left fair territory.
  6. The BR can never be called out for abandonment prior to touching 1B, which is defined for runners who have touched 1B. From the 2017 Jaksa/Roder manual (chapter 6, pp. 50-51): A runner who discontinues his advance or return to a base, progresses a reasonable distance from the base (usually toward his dugout or defensive position), and indicates no intent to reassert his status as a runner has abandoned his effort to run the bases. The cause of his actions (e.g., ignorance or apathy) is irrelevant. The ball remains in play. By rule, a batter-runner cannot be out for abandoning before touching (or passing) first base. However, there may be instances wherein a batter-runner aborts an advance toward first base before touching (or passing) it. This is herein called desertion… Desertion typically occurs when a third strike is not caught and the defense neglects tagging the batter-runner or first base. If such batter-runner is not trying for first base when he leaves the dirt circle surrounding home plate, he is out for desertion. (5.05a2-Comment) Furthermore, if the batter-runner has been given a reasonable opportunity to advance but gives indication that he is unaware of this opportunity or is choosing not to take advantage of it (lingers in the plate area, begins to remove batting gloves or equipment, moves toward his position or dugout, begins to argue, etc.) he is out for desertion. [NFHS 8-4-1i] A batter-runner is also out for desertion if he is being chased toward home plate during a tag attempt and reaches home plate. Although improbable, desertion can also occur after an award (5.05b1 Comment) (e.g., after ball four the batter-runner goes directly to his dugout as a pinch-runner goes from the dugout to first base) or on a batted ball. If such batter-runner reaches his dugout he is out for desertion.
  7. The following case play can be found in the 2016 BRD (section 296, p. 197): Play 161-296: R1. The runner is moving on the pitch when B1’s attempted bunt is a pop-up behind the plate. BR heads for first as the foul is caught. The catcher throws to F3 to double up R1, but his throw hits BR in the running lane and goes into the dugout. Ruling: R1 is awarded third. BR was in the running lane; that he continued to run is not sufficient to create interference. Note 267: If BR had been to the left or right of the lane, the umpire would properly call out R1 because of interference by a retired batter-runner. BRD comment: If R1 does not retouch first before he touches second on the award, on proper appeal he will be out. Our guest Tom only identified his scenario as a “12 year old game” with no word as to what rules governed his game. He also did not give us any details as to whether the batter-runner actually interfered in any way on the catcher’s throw to first. So here’s a FED interpretation that tells us that it does matter if the batter-runner is following the baserunning rules-- From the 2016 BRD (section 349, p. 232): FED Official Interpretation: Rumble: R1, one out. B1 strikes out, but F2 drops the ball. BR starts for first, and the catcher’s throw hits him: (a) inside the running lane; or (b) not in the running lane. Ruling: in (a), there is no interference unless BR deliberately got hit by the ball. The ball remains alive. In (b), BR is guilty of interference. The ball is dead, and he is declared out. R1 returns TOP unless he had reached second at the time of the interference. Note 325: Don’t be confused by the OI. The batter is declared out: he was out the moment he swung for strike three. In (a), he’s inside the lane so there’s no additional penalty: R1 might go on to third. The point: The catcher should have known not to play on BR. But in (b), BR is out of the lane: His interference kills the ball and prevents R1 from advancing. From the 2016 BRD (section 349, p. 233): OBR Official Interpretation: Wendelstedt: Interference may be called on a batter-runner who is already out if he interferes with a play being made back into first while he is outside of the running lane. The runner on whom the play is being made (R1) is out.
  8. From the 2021 Minor League Baseball Umpire Manual (section 9.4, p. 152)— “Before the first pitch of an inning or following any dead situation, the plate umpire should be sure that the pitcher does not deliver the pitch before the batter is ready. It is acceptable for the umpire to put up his right hand up in front of his body at least head height to prevent the pitcher from delivering a pitch before the batter is set. This signal should only be used to indicate that the ball is still dead following the calling of time and never used to initiate the call of time. The plate umpire should always raise both hands above his head when initiating the call of time.” From the 2017 Jaksa/Roder manual (chapter 2, p. 22): The ball becomes live again once (5.12)… (a) every umpire discontinues his signaling of time, and (b) the pitcher has the ball in-contact with the pitching rubber. The plate umpire recognizes time during warm-up pitches. When he is in position, preparing to rule on a pitch to a batter, he may point to the pitcher to emphasize his discontinuation of time, and this is called “putting the ball in play.” This point does not in itself create a live ball—nor is it required of the umpire—but is often useful, especially with runners on base.
  9. 2022 Little League Rules Instruction Manual PLAY: Runner on first, home plate umpire believing all play had ceased, turned his/her back on the pitcher to dust off home plate when: (a) runner steals second with no play being made; (b) pitcher catches runner standing off first talking with first base coach. Base umpire calls runner out. RULING: In both (a) and (b), put runner back on first. The runners were placed in jeopardy due to an umpire’s error. Do not rely on the concept of Implied Time Out since that does not exist in the Rule Book. INSTRUCTOR’S COMMENTS (for rule 5.02): The “No Pitch” signal (raising one hand up while facing the pitcher) is the same as calling “Time”. If an Umpire raises one hand up while facing the pitcher, he/ she has called “Time Out”. The ball must be made “live” again after this “Time Out.” See Rule 5.11. In addition, the NCAA and FED actually have rules mentioning and okaying the do-not-pitch signal. FED rule 5-1-1: Ball becomes dead immediately when…h. the umpire handles a live ball or calls "Time” for inspecting the ball or for any other reason, including items in Section 2 or gives the “Do Not Pitch Signal” … The “Do Not Pitch” signal is listed as item 21 in the Immediate Dead Ball table in rule 5 of the 2019 NFHS Baseball Rules Book. 2021-2022 NCAA rule 6-5h. The plate umpire holds up a hand instructing the pitcher not to pitch until the batter or umpire is ready. The ball is dead and no other play shall be allowed until the umpire declares, “Play" or uses some other appropriate signal such as a point toward the pitcher to indicate “Play” and that the ball is live. When a batter is getting set, the umpire shall keep one hand up to the pitcher to indicate that the ball is dead.
  10. A runner cannot choose to just plow through a fielder who is attempting a tag. From the 2017 Jaksa/Roder manual (chapter 13, p. 108): In such cases, a runner must prove by his actions and the way he positions himself that his intent is to reach the base safely and to stay on the base if it cannot be overrun… Actions that disregard this intent and show, rather, an intent to interfere with a fielder attempting a throw or tag include: (a) grabbing the fielder, (b) using excessive and unnecessary force in shoving, elbowing, spiking (at or above the knee), roll blocking, etc., the fielder, (c) intentionally standing (rather than sliding) and blocking the fielder, (d) waving arms to distract or hinder the fielder, (e) throwing a helmet at the ball or the fielder, (f) slapping the ball or the fielder’s glove or mitt, (g) initiating an avoidable collision with the fielder (NCAA 8-7a-1 and 2)
  11. Senor Azul

    Balk no balk

    From the 2021 Minor League Baseball Umpire Manual (section 6.31, p. 120): …If the pitcher has his hands together long enough that, in the judgment of the umpire, it appears that he has actually come to a Set Position or has actually assumed the wind-up position, then should the pitcher separate his hands, a balk shall be called under Official Baseball Rule 6.02(a)(10). From the 2017 Jaksa/Roder manual (p. 145): It is a balk if a pitcher who is in-contact... Contacts the rubber with his hands apart, joins his hands for a considerable period of time, and then separates his hands without a concurrent motion to pitch, throw, or disengage. The pitcher is allowed to momentarily adjust the ball, or transfer the ball from hand to glove (or vice versa) as he steps onto the pitching rubber, but is otherwise prohibited from stepping onto the rubber with his hands joined (and if he does so, a balk may be called as he separates his hands).
  12. Senor Azul

    Balk no balk

    Apparently, in FED it is alright to engage the rubber with the hands already together—see the FED case play below and FED case play 6.1.2 Situation G in the 2020 book. 2020 NFHS Case Book Play 6.1.2 Situation F: With R3 on third base, F1 steps on the pitcher’s plate and his hands are already together in front of his body. F1 then drops his pitching hand to his side and stops. RULING: This is a balk and R3 is awarded home. F1 separated his hands without delivering the pitch.
  13. Senor Azul

    Mound visit

    Since our guest did not specify which rule set his game was played under here are the interpretations for all codes. From the 2016 BRD (section 150, p. 114): FED: The coach may stand with his pitcher at the mound between half-innings. If his presence creates a delay: PENALTY: The umpire may charge a conference. 2019 NFHS Case Book Play 3.4.1 Situation H: Between innings the coach of Team A walks from the third base coach’s box to the pitcher’s mound and proceeds to visit with F1. Ruling: F1 has one minute in which to complete his warmup throws. At that point, the coach should leave the field. The umpire should not allow play to begin until the coach is off the field. The umpire may assess the coach a charged conference if he delays leaving the field. (6-2-2c EXCEPTION) NCAA: Official Interpretation: Paronto: This is covered with the timed, 90-second count between each half-inning. When the 90-second (or 108-second count for televised contests) expires, a penalty of one ball will be charged to the pitcher. As long as the conference does not delay the start of the half-inning, the meeting is allowed. OBR Official Interpretation: Wendelstedt: If a manager goes out during warm-ups to see a pitcher who was already listed in the lineup in a previous inning, that would be a trip. Play: After Home switches sides in the 3rd inning, Coach Home goes to the mound, standing with his pitcher Bubba while he warms up. Bubba also pitched the 2nd inning. Ruling: In FED/NCAA, that is not a conference. In OBR, it is a trip to the mound.
  14. Under pro rules this is considered to be so-called “weak” interference or “interference without a play.” This scenario is actually addressed in the rule book-- 2021 OBR Rules 6.03(a)(3) and (4) Comment: …If a batter strikes at a ball and misses and swings so hard he carries the bat all the way around and, in the umpire’s judgment, unintentionally hits the catcher or the ball in back of him on the backswing, it shall be called a strike only (not interference). The ball will be dead, however, and no runner shall advance on the play. Under high school rules (NFHS or FED) the play in the OP is considered to be follow-through interference (see rule 2-21-4). Here is a case play illustrating how this play should be officiated in a high school game-- 2019 FED Case Book Play 7.3.5 SITUATION F: With R3 on third, one out and two strikes on B3, B3 swings at and misses the pitch. The ball bounces off F2’s glove into the air, where it is hit by B3’s follow-through. The ball rolls to the back stop. B3 reaches first base safely and R3 scores. RULING: The ball is dead immediately. B3 is out for interference and R3 returns to third base. A batter is entitled to an uninterrupted opportunity to hit the ball, just as the catcher is entitled to an uninterrupted opportunity to field the ball. Once the batter swings, he is responsible for his follow-through.
  15. From the 2022 Little League RIM rule 7.08(a)(3) INSTRUCTOR’S COMMENTS: Rule 7.08(a)(3) does not prevent or make hurdling illegal. Rule 7.08(a)(3) is easily the most misunderstood rule in the book. It is easily broken down as follows: 1. The fielder must have the ball in his/her possession; AND 2. The fielder must be WAITING to make the tag; If BOTH of those two criteria are satisfied, then the runner must EITHER: 1. SLIDE; OR 2. ATTEMPT to get around the fielder OR. 3. RETREAT to the previous base OR 4. GIVE THEMSELVES UP Notice that the rule says “attempt to get around”, not “avoid”. Contact may occur with no penalty assessed.
  16. You made the right call, Mr. Lewis 88. There was no violation since the contact was made with the fielder in front of the base. The FED must feel pretty strongly about this concept since they put two case plays in the book that are nearly identical— 2019 FED Case Book Play 2.32.1 SITUATION: With R1, a ground ball is hit to F6, who throws to F4 covering second. R1 slides late at second, stays in the baseline, but R1 makes contact with F4 who is in front of the base, causing him to overthrow first base. RULING: Providing the slide is legal and the contact is not malicious, there is no violation. 2019 FED Case Book Play 5.1.1 Situation O: With R1, a ground ball is hit to F6, who throws to F4 covering second. R1 slides late at second, stays in the baseline, but R1 makes contact with F4 in front of the base, causing him to overthrow first base. RULING: Providing the slide is legal and the contact is not malicious, there is no violation. (2-32-2f)
  17. From the 2021 Minor League Baseball Umpire Manual (section 5.40, p. 69): … A base runner being called out for abandoning his effort to touch the next base does not change a force play to a tag or time play on any other runner(s). And just to reinforce this principle here are two other citations—one from the 2016 BRD and one posted here in 2018 by Mr. Jimurray. Official Interpretation: Rice for Wendelstedt School: The definition of a force play is a play in which a runner legally loses his right to occupy a base by reason of the batter becoming a runner. The force is removed if the forced runner touches his next base or a following runner is put out before he reaches his next base. Simply put, if a runner is put out for any reason prior to the force being removed, it is a force out. Abandonment would be no different. (2016 BRD, section 453, p. 301) Play: R1, R3, two outs, no count, tie score. The batter knocks a base hit. R3 scores on the play, but R1 runs off the field to celebrate believing the game is immediately over and is called out for abandoning his effort to run the bases. Ruling: Since R1 is called out for the third out on a force play, no run scores. (Adapted from the 2013 WRIM, play P489, p. 259) 2017 MLBUM, new Interp #31: "A baserunner being called out for abandoning his effort to touch the next base does not change a force play to a tag or time play on any other runners."
  18. The following text is taken from the 2017 Jaksa/Roder rules interpretation manual (chapter 10, p. 90): When judging whether a run scores on a time play, the umpire is to watch for whether the runner touches the plate before or after the tag originates. The tag originates when it is applied by touching the runner or base. An umpire is not to judge a time play according to whether the runner touches the plate before or after the completion of the tag—which is after complete control is shown or proven. The umpire at the plate watches for whether the runner touches the plate before or after the origination of the tag. The umpire on the bases watches for the completion of the tag (complete control) and signals the third out. Only then does the umpire at the plate make his signal on the time play.
  19. Mr. Jimurray, I would urge you to be careful about bringing forward any rule citations made by Mr. noumpere. He has told us on several occasions that he does not have any current or recent rule books or interpretation manuals. You told us that he originally posted this text “circa 2017” but if you read the text you will find two references to rule 8.05 which has not been the valid rule number since 2015. As for the rest of the text, it seems that nothing else is egregiously wrong—so we are lucky in that regard. That’s not to say that the current version of this text in the 2021 MiLBUM isn’t different. In fact, there are two newer sections—paragraphs 9 and 10 that appear on pages 123-124 of the 2021 MiLBUM that deal with balks followed by catcher interference and declared infield flies. Since Mr. Umpire942, the OP, specifically asked about anything he may have missed I would think that would be important.
  20. In a handful of the nearly 5000 regular season games? Isn’t this number wrong? I can see how it is derived—there are 30 MLB teams and they each play 162 games in the championship season—30 x 162 = 4860. That would be the “nearly 5000” but don’t we need to divide 4860 by two? So—4860/2 = 2430 actual games played during the regular season.
  21. Senor Azul

    Tag up

    According to the official baseball (OBR) scoring rules it is possible to credit an unintentional assist to a fielder who fulfills the criteria for being awarded an assist [see rule 9.10(a)(1) Comment]. 2021 OBR 9.10 Assists (a) The Official Scorer shall credit an assist to each fielder who (1) throws or deflects a batted or thrown ball in such a way that a putout results, or would have resulted except for a subsequent error by any fielder. Only one assist and no more shall be credited to each fielder who throws or deflects the ball in a run-down play that results in a putout, or would have resulted in a putout, except for a subsequent error; or Rule 9.10(a)(1) Comment: Mere ineffective contact with the ball shall not be considered an assist. “Deflect” shall mean to slow down or change the direction of the ball and thereby effectively assist in putting out a batter or runner… So Mr. Velho is absolutely spot on with his suggestion as to how to notate your play in the scorebook. One of the more famous incidents of a deflected fly ball occurred in the final game of the 1980 World Series between the Phillies and Royals. In the top of the ninth Royals batter Frank White hit a foul popup that came down in front of the first base dugout. Phillies catcher Bob Boone came over and tried to make the catch but the ball popped out of his mitt. Fortunately for Boone, that darned Pete Rose was right there to make the catch for the putout (video is available on YouTube).
  22. Cant assume he would have been out on the throw to third. Missed tag, missed catch, swim move, ball jarred during slide....Give them the benefit of the Triple + error. That is wrong! All one need do is to read the applicable scoring rule where it tells us to judge whether a good throw would have put the runner out. Check it out—rule 9.00 The Rules of Scoring-- 2021 OBR 9.12(a)(5) whose wild throw permits a runner to reach a base safely, when in the scorer’s judgment a good throw would have put out the runner, unless such wild throw is made attempting to prevent a stolen base; Rule 9.05(a) Comment: In applying Rule 9.05(a), the Official Scorer shall always give the batter the benefit of the doubt. A safe course for the Official Scorer to follow is to score a hit when exceptionally good fielding of a ball fails to result in a putout. From the book Baseball Scorekeeping by Andres Wirkmaa (pp. 149-150): …It sets forth the principle that a scorer should always consider whether a good throw, in lieu of the wild (bad) throw at issue, would have brought about a different result before he or she charges an error on the wild (bad) throw. In other words, an error is not to be automatically charged whenever a throw intended to put out a runner is wild/bad and the runner is safe. It must be clear that but for the throw being wild/bad, the runner would have been put out.
  23. Was the batted ball the sole reason the batter-runner (BR) made it safely to third base? Or would the BR have been put out at third base with a good throw? As you describe it I would credit the BR with a triple and show the advance to the plate as a result of a wild throw (for example, E7T) to account for the run. Here are the relevant high school softball scorekeeping rules-- 2020 NFHS rule 9-3 ART. 3 . . . A base hit for extra bases is credited to the batter when it is the sole reason for safe arrival at second base (double), third base (triple) or home plate (home run). 9-5 ART. 5 . . . An error is charged against a fielder for each misplay that prolongs the time at bat of the batter; or prolongs the time a player continues to be a runner; or permits the runner to advance one or more bases. If it is impossible to assign an error to an individual player, then the team will be assessed with an error.
  24. I have an old ASA rule book from 2014 (before ASA became USA). I found a couple of references that might be of help to you. The first paragraph of the Rules Supplement entry for Interference states the following— “Interference may be in the form of physical contact, verbal distraction, visual distraction, or any type of distraction that hinders a fielder in the execution of a play.” Then in the same entry it lists the different types of interference. One type listed is— “Offensive players in the dugout may be charged with interference if they interfere with a fielder’s opportunity to make an out on a fly ball.”
  25. 2019 FED Case Book play 3.3.1 Situation CC: After hitting a line drive toward F5, B1 releases the bat, which strikes F2 or the umpire. The act was judged by the umpire to be (a) intentional or (b) unintentional. RULING: In (a) and (b), this is a delayed dead-ball situation. In (a), the offender will be ejected from the game. If his fair hit ball is a base hit, he will be replaced with a substitute runner. In (b), the umpire will warn the coach of that player’s team that the next player on that team to violate the rule shall be ejected from the game. 2019 FED Case Book play 3.3.1 Situation LL: With Team B at bat (a) B1 receives ball four and on his way to first base, B1 carelessly flips the bat toward his bench, almost hitting the on-deck batter, or (b) after hitting a ground ball to F5, B1 flips the bat behind him as he begins his advance to first base and the bat strikes F2, or (c) F1, while backing up home plate, picks up a bat and tosses it out of the way, but in doing so almost hits the plate umpire. RULING: In (a), (b) and (c), the umpire shall issue a team warning to the head coach of the player committing the infraction. (3-3-1c)
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