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Senor Azul

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Senor Azul last won the day on August 5

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About Senor Azul

  • Birthday 07/16/1947

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  1. Let’s take a closer look at this play. We have an in-contact pitcher, a batter in his normal stance, and a runner at third. The pitcher sees the runner from third break for the plate and the pitcher legally disengages the rubber and throws home to try to get that runner out. Ordinarily, a legal pitch arrives at the catcher in less than half a second. With the pitcher stepping back and then throwing to the plate that time is going to be a bit longer, agreed? It still is only going to take 1-2 seconds for the ball to arrive—before the batter can move out of the way of a possible tag play he must first recognize that it is a throw and not a pitch. Is it reasonable to expect the batter to be able to move out of the way in that short a time span? I say no. The rule Mr. Richvee cited is 2019 FED 7-3-5d but we need to also look at 7-3-5b and c— Interfere with the catcher’s fielding or throwing by: b. stepping out of the batter’s box c. making any other movement, including follow-through interference, which hinders actions at home plate or the catcher’s attempt to play on a runner, or So, what we have now is a conundrum for the batter. He has to comply with rules 7-3-5b and c and yet somehow also comply with 7-3-5d as well—all within 2 seconds of the ball, runner, and catcher arriving. What’s the batter to do? What’s the best action to take and still not be penalized? I say his best solution is to not move and remain in his batting stance.
  2. I have posted the following information at least five times before-- From the 2013 Wendelstedt manual (section 9.2.2, p. 174): A batter is not required to vacate his batting position in order to avoid hindering a play at the plate. A batter who just holds his position in the batter’s box, without making any additional movement, should not be called out for interference unless his inaction is deemed intentional to interfere. OBR Authoritative Opinion: Evans: The batter is obligated to avoid making ANY MOVEMENT which obstructs, impedes, or hinders the catcher’s play in any way. A swing which carries the batter over home plate and subsequently complicates the catcher’s play or attempted play should be ruled interference. Contact between the batter and catcher does not necessarily have to occur for interference to be ruled. Merely blocking the catcher’s vision to second base may very possibly be interference. (JEA/6:46) Here is the FED case play telling us that a batter is entitled to the space he occupies in the box. 2019 NFHS Case Book Play 7.3.5 Situation E: With less than two outs, R2 and B2 at the plate, R2 attempts to steal third. In the process, B2, who bats right-handed, after swinging or not swinging at the pitch, (a) makes no attempt to get out of the way of F2 throwing to third or (b) is unable to make an attempt to get out of the way of F2 throwing to third. As a result, F2 cannot make a play on the runner. Is B2 out, and must R2 return to second? RULING: B2 is not guilty of interference in (a) or (b). B2 is entitled to his position in the batter’s box and is not subject to being penalized for interference unless he moves or re-establishes his position after F2 has received the pitch, which then prevents F2 from attempting to play on a runner. Failing to move so F2 can make a throw is not batter interference.
  3. Mr. Rawly, the batter is not expected to move in your scenario. In fact, he is entitled to the space he occupies in the box i.e., if he is in his normal batting stance he is OK. He is expected, however, to recognize that the ball coming to the plate is a throw and not a pitch. The batter cannot interfere with the catcher’s try to field the throw by swinging at the throw and/or hitting the throw. The NCAA rule says it best in its rule— 2019-2020 NCAA rule 7-11v. If the batter hits, or attempts to hit, a throw made to home plate by the pitcher who is not in contact with the pitching rubber, and is attempting to retire a runner stealing home, interference shall be called and the ball is dead. PENALTY for v.—With two outs, the batter is out. With fewer than two outs, the runner shall be out. For high school rules your play is actually listed in the Dead Ball Table in rule 5 (also see their 2019 Case Book play 7.3.5 Situation G)— Item #25 from NFHS Dead Ball Table based on rule 5-1-1b Interference by batter who hits throw from the pitcher, not in contact with pitcher’s plate when runner is advancing to home base Penalty from NFHS rule 7-3-5 With less than two outs, the runner is out. Otherwise batter is out
  4. A runner cannot intentionally interfere with a fair batted ball. That was the original intent of the rule and it still is the intent of the rule [OBR rule 6.01(a)(11)]. Other rules make it illegal for a runner to intentionally interfere with a fielder or a throw as mentioned by the OP Willis. Even though it is not recent, perhaps the following anecdote from Wikipedia illustrates best how this rule has always included intentional actions by the runner. In a game against the Milwaukee Braves on April 21 (1957), (Don) Hoak was involved in a controversial play that would lead to a change in the rules. He was on second base and teammate Gus Bell was on first, when Wally Post hit a ground ball to short. Hoak broke up a potential double play by fielding the ball himself and flipping it to Milwaukee shortstop Johnny Logan. Hoak was called out for interference, but Post was given a single on the play. The day before, Johnny Temple let Bell's ground ball hit him with the same result, Temple being called out for interference and Bell being awarded a single. The two incidents prompted league presidents Warren Giles and Will Harridge to jointly announce a rule change that declared both the runner and batter out if the runner intentionally interferes with a batted ball, with no runners allowed to advance. (Without the new rule, it was sometimes advantageous for a runner to touch a batted ball, because doing so avoided a double play. In the plays already mentioned, Temple and Hoak were out according to a still-existing rule: a runner is out if a batted ball touches him in fair territory before it touches a fielder, with the batter getting a single and no runner advancing unless forced.)
  5. Mr. Jimurray, thanks for the clarification and edits to your first post. After all, we don’t want lurkers and newbies to misunderstand. I hope that one of the moderators sees your post and adds the two acronyms you coined to our master list of commonly used abbreviations. From the 2016 BRD (section 336, p. 220): OBR Official Interpretation: PBUC: If defensive players have a chance to field a fair batted ball, but choose not to, and a runner is touched by the ball (while on base), the runner is not out. Here’s the play from the 2014 PBUC (section 7.5, p. 72) that the interpretation is based on— Play 11: Runner on second base, no one out. Batter bunts fair down the third base line. Pitcher and third baseman hover over the ball and let it roll down the line toward third, hoping it will go foul. The ball continues to roll down the line in fair territory with the pitcher and third baseman following it. The ball ends up rolling to third base, strikes the base, and then strikes the runner from second base who is now standing on third. Ruling 11: Even though the ball has technically not passed a fielder, the ball is alive and in play because the fielders had an opportunity to field the batted ball but chose not to. The runner is not out in this situation.
  6. Mr. Jimurray, is this another case of you didn’t RTWFT? And so soon after the other one! The second scenario raised by the poster NJ Coach involves a bunt over the head of a charging first baseman and the subsequent intentional interference by the runner at first base, R1 not R3 at third.
  7. From the 2016 BRD (section 36, p. 43): OBR Authoritative Opinion: Evans: When Type 2 obstruction occurs, the umpire must make an initial decision to which base he will protect the runner. That is determined by the position of the runner, the speed of the runner, the position of the fielder, and the location of the ball at the very instant the obstruction occurs. That initial decision may change based on subsequent events; i.e., ball eludes a fielder or ball is dropped by a fielder. (This is called post-obstruction evidence.)
  8. While it is a baseball myth, it's not totally a softball myth. I found the following rule for NSA Slow Pitch softball that makes it illegal to carry the bat to first base--there are probably other slow-pitch softball leagues that make it illegal as well and I am sure that that is a contributing factor to the baseball myth. 2019 NSA Slow Pitch rule 8-6k Any batter-runner who carries the bat and legally reaches or touches first base, while still holding the bat, during a live ball situation (including a homerun, see exception), will be declared out…
  9. The 1860 Beadle's Dime Base-Ball Player was the very first baseball guide ever published for commercial sale to the public. It had the then-current baseball rules and even instructions on how to play the game as evidenced by the following bit of text about batting-- The Batsman, when he has hit the ball, should drop his bat, not throw it behind him, and run for the first base, not waiting to hear whether the ball has been declared foul or not, as if it be a foul ball, he can easily return to the base, but should it be fair, he will be well on his way to the base. *** Note that the book does not mention any prohibition by the rules for carrying the bat when running. In addition to the 1860 rules, I checked the 1872, 1900, 1925, and 1950 rule books and found nothing concerning a batter-runner carrying the bat while running the bases. Obviously there are a lot of years I did not check but I would be willing to bet that there never was a pro baseball rule against a BR carrying a bat to first base. I think that’s because until now it has never become an issue--additionally, home runs were not very common until about 1920. Also, there are questions as to why a runner would want to slow himself down by carrying the bat or open himself up to more possible interference calls.
  10. I posted the following in March 2019. From the 2018 Minor League Baseball Umpire Manual (section 5.15, p. 46). The text is underlined in the book signifying a change for the 2018 season in Minor League Baseball. A runner does not acquire the right to an unoccupied base on an attempt to retire the runner until he touches it before he is put out. This is true regardless of whether the umpire’s act of not making a call signifies to the defensive team that the runner failed to touch the base for purposes of an appeal play. Play 1: Batter-runner hits a ground ball and beats the play at first base but misses the bag as he passes it with both feet. Ruling 1: The proper mechanic is for the umpire to make no call on the play because the batter-runner has not yet touched first base. If the defense appeals by tagging the runner (or base) and appealing that the runner missed first base before the runner returns to first base, the batter-runner would be declared out. *** The following interpretation can be found in the 2016 BRD (section 362, p. 242): FED Official Interpretation: Hopkins: If BR misses first but beats the throw, he is “considered safe” and the umpire should so signal. If the defense appeals, the umpire will reverse his call. 2015 NFHS Baseball Rules Interpretations SITUATION 20: The batter hits the ball to the shortstop who bobbles the ball and throws late to first base. The batter-runner beats the throw but does not touch first base. RULING: The runner beats the ball on the play and is considered to be safe. The defense must appeal the missed base or tag the batter-runner before he returns to first in order to have the out declared for the missed base. (8-2-1 Penalty)
  11. Sometimes it helps our understanding of a current rule to know the history of that rule. So, here is an excerpt from the book The Official Rules of Baseball Illustrated by David Nemec concerning the rule governing interference by a runner (Chapter 7, p. 108)-- “In the early days there were frequent debates over whether a runner should be declared out when a batted ball hit him since it often was an unavoidable accident. The first effort to address the problem was in 1872, when a rule was created that any player who designedly let a batted ball or thrown ball hit him was automatically out. “In 1877 the rule became that any base runner, whether his action was by design or not, was out if he was struck by a batted ball before it had passed a fielder. The revision was necessary when it grew apparent that umpires could not be expected to judge whether a runner had intentionally let a ball hit him.” *** So it would seem from 1877 that it was the intention of the rule makers to penalize the runner who is hit by a batted ball whether it was intentional (fielding the ball, for example) or unintentional. With that in mind, I think current rule 5.09(b)(7) is the rule that would govern the plays in the original post.
  12. Umpire: Suspends Play: For Injury FED: 2019 rule 5-2-1d-1 ART. 1 . . . “Time” shall be called by the umpire and play is suspended when: d. an umpire or player is incapacitated, except that if injury occurs during a live ball, time shall not be called until no further advance or putout is possible; 1. If there is a medical emergency or if, in the umpire’s judgment, further play could jeopardize the injured player’s safety, “Time” shall be called. *** From the 2016 BRD (section 554, p. 364): Note 523: BRD recommends: If you think another player might be injured as a result of the first player’s mishap, call time at once. In any game where the players don’t shave, call time at once anyway.
  13. Mr. noumpere, once again you have given us an old citation. The rule you cited (8-4-2n) is actually 8-4-2m and it is in the 2015 rule book as such and is in the 2018 and 2019 rule books as well (I do not have a copy of the 2017 edition)-- 2019 NFHS rule 8-4 ART. 2 . . . Any runner is out when he: m. passes an unobstructed preceding runner before such runner is out (including awarded bases); or I think we are forced to invoke rule 6.95 here and now-- Rule 6.95. As in "Spend $6.95 and buy yourself a rule book."
  14. From the 2017 Jaksa/Roder manual (Chapter 15, p. 133): R2, one out. The batter hits a pop fly to shallow right-center field. Misplayed, the ball drops amidst three fielders. R2 is unable to advance and has returned to second. The batter-runner rounds first aggressively…and is obstructed, but continues his advance to second without hesitation. He is able to reach second, and jointly occupies it with R2, when both runners are tagged: the batter-runner (following runner) is out. He is required to realize that R2 has not advanced. The obstruction does not give him license to ignore the actions of his teammate while advancing. (emphasis added)
  15. From the 2016 BRD (section 12, pp. 24-25): OBR: The defense may appeal each runner at each base. (5.09c) Play: Bases loaded, 2 outs. B1 triples. The defense appeals that R1 missed second. The umpire denies the appeal. Next the defense announces it will appeal that BR missed second. That appeal is also denied. The defense then announces it will appeal that R1 missed third. Ruling: The appeals are all legal. The defense could make eight appeals on this play: R1, R2, R3 at home; R1 and R2 at third; R1 and BR at second; and BR at first. As far as I can tell, the NCAA is the only code that spells out in its rule book that the defense must indicate which runner is being appealed where more than one runner might have committed the infraction (2019 rule 8-6b-6).
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