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Senor Azul

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Senor Azul last won the day on April 2

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About Senor Azul

  • Birthday 07/16/1947

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  1. Senor Azul

    No Call?

    I can find without much effort instances online of this phrase being used to describe the tangle/untangle play. But you know what? I cannot find anybody telling us not to use that phrase except here on U-E—not online or in any manuals. If it is so stupid, dangerous, lazy, and meaningless why isn’t anyone else warning us of the harm it can cause? Can you, Mr. beerguy55, please provide a citation from somewhere else emphasizing the need to avoid this phrase? Here’s just one example. One of our infrequent contributors has actually written a book about the rules. He also has a blog in which he stated the following (and I suspect that this text also appears in his book) about the famous Fisk/Armbrister tangle/untangle play: “Let’s go back to the 1975 World Series for a similar play with a different outcome. “In this instance both the catcher and runner were doing what they were supposed to be doing. Contact could not be avoided. The umpires ruled to play on. Tough call for the Red Sox – of course if Fisk would have made a better throw the arguments would not have happened.” And here’s what one of our frequent contributors said about this book, “a very well done book and a good supplement to the rule book itself.” So, Mr. beerguy55, if you cannot find any references to cite for your dire warnings, it would seem to be a golden opportunity for you to write a book of your own and become a famous baseball writer. Carpe diem, Mr. beerguy55!
  2. Senor Azul

    No Call?

    Close Call Sports/Umpire Ejection Fantasy League (UEFL) analyzed this play and ejection in April 2013 [titled MLB Ejection 017: Dan Iassogna (1; Charlie Manuel)]. The Appeals Board of the UEFL voted 5-1 to affirm the on-field call. At least two of the board members who voted agreement with the no-call are regular contributors here on U-E. Here’s what one wrote in his concurring opinion, “It's the classic F2/BR tangle. Both were doing what they were supposed to be doing.” Here’s a video made by Close Call Sports about Tangle/Untangle:
  3. Senor Azul

    Intentional Walks

    The text I quoted earlier from the 2018 MiLBUM can also be found in the 2017 MLBUM. However, I did not quote the whole thing. That interpretation goes on to say (same section, same page)— Keep in mind a few additional points… · Once the defensive manager notifies the umpire he would like to no-pitch intentionally walk the batter, it will be too late for the defense to successfully appeal the following: -- a missed base or a base left too soon --half-swings --an improper batter (batting out of order) --misapplication of a rule (protest)
  4. Senor Azul

    Balk or NO Balk

    Mr. maven posted the following on March 2, “The appearance to the contrary is from Demetriou, who's notoriously sloppy, interpreting an NCAA rule. That rule also allows an attempt to retire a runner to otherwise excuse an illegal throw to a fielder away from the base.” Mr. maven, I am surprised that no one has challenged you about this assertion that George Demetriou is “notoriously sloppy.” Well, I am doing so now. Can you give an example to back up your insulting assertion? I have searched the Internet and have not found any negative reviews of the man or his work—in short, he seems to have a sterling reputation. In any case, he is certainly not sloppy in his assessment of this particular rule; that’s why I included the actual NCAA rule along with his interpretation in my earlier post.
  5. As I posted 10 days ago, the rule allowing runners to advance on caught fly balls as soon as the fielder touched the ball entered the rule book in 1920. Here’s what the actual rule was in 1864-- "Sec. 18. No ace or base can be made when a fair ball has been caught without having touched the ground; such a ball shall be considered alive and in play. In such cases players running bases shall return to them, and may be put out in so returning, in the same manner as the striker when running to first base; but players, when balls are so caught, may run their bases immediately after the ball has been settled in the hands of the player catching it." And here’s the change made to the rule in 1920-- 1920 Official Base Ball Rules adopted by the National and American Leagues and the National Association of Professional Base Ball Leagues (amendments for 1920 indicated by italics) Rule 56 Section 10 If, when a fair or foul hit ball (other than a foul tip as defined in Rule 46) be legally caught by a fielder, such ball be legally held by a fielder on the base occupied by the base-runner when such ball was batted, or the base-runner be touched with the ball in the hands of a fielder, before he retouch such base after such fair or foul hit ball was so caught; provided, that the base-runner shall not be out in such case, if, after the ball was legally caught as above, it be delivered to the bat by the pitcher before the fielder hold it on said base, or touch the base-runner out with it; but if the base-runner, in attempting to reach a base, detach it from its fastening before being touched or forced out, he shall be declared safe. A base-runner who holds his base on a fly ball shall have the right to advance the moment such fly ball touches the hands of a fielder.
  6. Senor Azul

    Intentional Walks

    Unfortunately, it seems that we are not going to get a response from the OP to Mr. yawetag’s request for a rule citation nor to my request for information about which rule set he wanted to know about. So now might be a good time to hijack this thread by bringing the following old question up again. A few years back a question was asked about a smart defense recognizing that the batter at the plate was batting out of order. They wanted to ensure they got an out so they intentionally walked the BOO batter and then made their appeal. Is this a legal maneuver? Would you honor the appeal and call the correct batter out for MYTAB?
  7. 2019 OBR rule 5.06(b) (3) Each runner, other than the batter, may without liability to be put out, advance one base when: (E) A fielder deliberately touches a pitched ball with his cap, mask or any part of his uniform detached from its proper place on his person. The ball is in play, and the award is made from the position of the runner at the time the ball was touched. 2019 NFHS Case Book Play 8.3.3 Situation L: With two outs and R2 on second, B4 strikes out, but the pitch gets by F2 and is rolling toward the backstop. F2 chases the ball down and stops it with his mask. RULING: This is a delayed dead-ball situation. R2 is awarded two bases from the time of the infraction at the end of playing action. 2019-2020 NCAA rule 8-3g. If a fielder intentionally touches a fair ball with a cap, glove, mask, helmet or any part of the uniform while detached from its proper place on the body, the runners are awarded bases which shall be determined by where the runners were at the time of the illegal touching. The call is a delayed dead ball and the runners may advance further at their own risk. 3) If it is a pitch, the individual shall be entitled to one base. The bases to be awarded shall be determined by where the runners were at the time of the touch. In all cases, the runners may advance further at their own risk.
  8. Senor Azul

    Intentional Walks

    To our guest, Warren, what rule set was your game played under? It does make a difference. For example, in Little League the intentional base on balls has to be requested before a pitch has been thrown. Here’s the answer for the Official Baseball Rules (OBR) found in the 2018 Minor League Baseball Umpire Manual (section 10.1, p. 135) (bold emphasis added): If the defensive team's manager notifies the umpire that he would like to intentionally walk the batter, · Prior to the at-bat beginning: As the batter approaches the plate the umpire will call "Time," the ball is dead, and the umpire shall award the batter first base and advance any other runner(s) forced to advance by the batter being walked. · During an at-bat: The umpire will call "Time," the ball is dead, and the umpire shall award the batter first base and advance any other runner(s) forced to advance by the batter being walked. If a substitute batter is being entered into the game, the plate umpire should confirm and officially signal the batter into the game prior to addressing the defensive Club's request to intentionally walk the batter.
  9. Tony C., what all the others have told you is correct because it is actually in the rule book (bold emphasis added)— 2019 OBR Definitions of Terms (Catch) Comment: A catch is legal if the ball is finally held by any fielder, even though juggled, or held by another fielder before it touches the ground. Runners may leave their bases the instant the first fielder touches the ball. A fielder may reach over a fence, railing, rope or other line of demarcation to make a catch. He may jump on top of a railing, or canvas that may be in foul ground. No interference should be allowed when a fielder reaches over a fence, railing, rope or into a stand to catch a ball. He does so at his own risk. This rule did not enter the rule book until 1920. Prior to that the rule was that runners after returning to their original base (retouching or tagging up) could try to advance as soon as the ball had been “settled into the hands of a fielder.” Umpires took that phrase to mean that a ball had to be firmly secured before a runner was free to tag up and try to advance.
  10. Senor Azul


    Mr. noumpere, so why, in your opinion, is my scenario #3 not a balk. I sincerely hope you are not going to tell us that an in-contact pitcher can make a throw (as opposed to a pitch) to the plate.
  11. Mr. T_Thomas, you’re not an umpire, are you? Nearly everything in your post is wrong. Let’s start with your misinterpretation of the FED case play. In the original post the very first question you asked in some very ungrammatical English was “Is batter still required to go touch for first under this situation?” Prior to my post no one had actually answered that. There were three other responders and the closest one to answering that question was Mr. noumpere who was guessing albeit it was a correct guess—and provided no actual rule citation to support the guess. I gave you actual proof that the batter-runner is required to go to first base in that case play. The batter-runner doesn’t have to go to first and miss it—he has no choice but to leave the box as soon as he receives ball four. I gave you rules that support the case play using proper citation format which you don’t seem to recognize. FED rules are separated by hyphens and case play citations are separated by decimal points. It’s RULE 8 not article 8. And did you notice that all the text I provided was nearly identical to what you parroted back to us? If it sounds as if I am mildly perturbed, it’s because I am. If you had told us that you had already been given the correct rule references for the FED ruling from another site it would have saved me a lot of work and I could have been more helpful in getting you to what you wanted to know. The term abandonment has a very precise meaning in all rule sets. It applies to the situation where any runner who has acquired first base then leaves the base path heading to his dugout or his defensive position. A batter-runner who gives up his effort to reach first base has deserted. By rule, a batter-runner cannot be out for abandonment before touching or passing first base. However, there may be instances where a batter-runner aborts an advance toward first base before touching or passing it. That’s what we call desertion. I am afraid that Mr. noumpere has misled you concerning the umpire “directing” the batter-runner to go to first base. Here’s where that idea comes from—it’s in the 2016 BRD (section 33, p. 39): In an explanatory note from the author Carl Childress he writes— “OBR does not provide a time frame for the advance: Simply, you wait around until BR and R3 decide to touch the bases, when the game ends. Many umpires, myself included, would ‘remind’ the runners to advance.” It’s not an official policy because we as umpires are not supposed to appear as if we are helping one team over the other. But we would definitely like to avoid the sh*tstorm that will certainly follow if we call out the batter-runner and nullify the game-winning run so we might as quietly as possible “remind” the batter-runner to advance.
  12. 2019 NFHS rule 8 SECTION 2 TOUCHING, OCCUPYING AND RETURNING TO A BASE ART. 1 . . . An advancing runner shall touch first, second, third and then home plate in order, including awarded bases. "A dead-ball appeal may be made by a coach or any defensive player with or without the ball by verbally stating that the runner missed the base or left the base too early...On the last play of the game, an appeal can be made until the umpire(s) leave the field of play." Rule 8-2-6j states, "If any situation arises which could lead to an appeal by the defense on the last play of the game, the appeal must be made while an umpire is still on the field of play." 8-2-9: "All awarded bases must be touched in their proper order." 2019 NFHS Case Book Play 9.1.1 Situation D: With two outs, R3 on third base and R1 on first base. B5 receives a fourth ball. An overthrow at third permits R3 to reach home. In advancing (a) R1 fails to touch second or (b) B5 goes to second base but fails to touch first base. RULING: Upon appeal, the umpire will rule R1 out for failing to touch second base in (a) and B5 out for failing to touch first base in (b). The run by R3 will not count in either case. (8-2 PENALTY)
  13. Perhaps this cartoon was the inspiration for the name of this website? Check out the book that Bullwinkle is reading about 12 seconds into the video. And, of course, that is Bullwinkle J. Moose performing as his alter ego Mr. Know-It-All.
  14. Senor Azul


    Scenario #1 Right-handed (RH) pitcher engages rubber to take set position. Just as he touches the rubber he drops the ball. Do you call a balk and award the runner(s) one base or do you ignore the drop? When the coach of the team at bat asks you if that was a balk do you tell him no because the pitcher wasn’t comfortable yet? Scenario #2 RH pitcher engages rubber to take set position. Just as he touches the rubber he turns quickly and attempts a pickoff at first base but throws the ball out of play. You award the runner(s) two bases because the pitcher had not yet become comfortable on the rubber. Scenario #3 RH pitcher engages rubber to take set position. Just as he touches the rubber the runner from third base takes off to steal home. The pitcher, without disengaging the rubber or coming to a stop, immediately throws home to put out the runner and you allow it and call the out. The offensive coach asks you why it wasn’t a balk and you tell him the pitcher had not gotten comfortable yet. Do I understand correctly what you are advocating, Mr. noumpere? Doesn’t your theory create more problems than it solves? Wouldn’t it be more chaotic because each umpire across the nation just might have a different idea what pitcher comfort might be?
  15. Mr. The Man in Blue, did you read the analysis of the play in the video? Here’s the main takeaway—“To recap, a foul bunt requires intent. A foul ball does not require intent.” And nothing about the batter’s action meets the definition of bunt— 2019 OBR definition A BUNT is a batted ball not swung at, but intentionally met with the bat and tapped slowly within the infield. Aren’t you being perverse or contrary (or as Mr. maven might say--contumacious) for no good reason?
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