batter thinks its ball 4, runner on second starts to walk as well

[Umpire942]

catchter throws, 2ndbase tags him.  hes out no?  this is HS level here.

 

not even sure why i should be asking.  ball is live, umpire did not say walk or ball 4 etc.  (what if he did though by mistake?)

[ArchAngel72]

20 minutes ago, umpstu said:

Crocs only.  Most comfortable footwear ever.  Now take your base.

NOPE  crocs with fuzzy inners and socks..

I got diabetic neuropathy all the way up to my knees.  these are without a doubt the most comfortable thing on my feet.

 

[LRZ]

2 hours ago, ArchAngel72 said:

 

Socks and crocs checking in....

 

Must they be all black?

[isired]

already know the answers to all of those.  But regardless play has stopped.  The 3rd base coach would be warned, which would require a TIME to be called no?, and now they cannot correctly tag the runner.  
Does the coach coming onto the field, during a live play, warrant a judgement of an out  (we are off topic now)

If nobody requested time, I wouldn't grant time (and even if somebody did request it, I probably wouldn't grant it, based on how I'm interpreting the scene you've set).

I would instruct the coach to leave the playing field, as someone mentioned above.

Besides, it doesn't really matter what should or shouldn't be done, all that matters is what WAS done. Did an umpire call time? Is so, then time is out. If not, then the ball is live and play can ensue.

But as someone astutely pointed out, the only thing that matters here is that the umpire didn't call ball 4, so tye ball is live and R2 is advancing at his own peril, and so can be tagged out, can try to to reach 3rd safely, or can try to return to second safely.

If the PU had called ball 4, since R2 isn't forced, he is still advancing at his own peril, so the above still applies.

[beerguy55]

2 hours ago, agdz59 said:

"Obstruction"/"Interference", Verbalize "Foul" / Silent "Fair", "That's a balk!" vs "Time, that's a balk", etc - those I get.

"Take your base" / "ball 4"? Who the hell cares?  I've yet to have a smart ass ask me what I mean by "Take your base". And if they did, I'd smile and tell them to be on their way.

I'd rather an ump say "Now go home and get your F*#King shine box"

[Tborze]

2 hours ago, agdz59 said:

"Obstruction"/"Interference", Verbalize "Foul" / Silent "Fair", "That's a balk!" vs "Time, that's a balk", etc - those I get.

"Take your base" / "ball 4"? Who the hell cares?  I've yet to have a smart ass ask me what I mean by "Take your base". And if they did, I'd smile and tell them to be on their way.

Don't take it so personal!  If you are trying to be the best you can be, take the advice. If not, then don't!  WE CARE!

[The Man in Blue]

Wow ... I must be the most evil person on the planet.

On ball 1, I say "Ball!"

On ball 2, I say "Ball!"

On ball 3, I say "Ball!"

On ball 4, I say "Ball!"

 

If that gets us nowhere, I will give it a few moments before reminding the batter he can go to first base.

[umpstu]

8 hours ago, ArchAngel72 said:

NOPE  crocs with fuzzy inners and socks..

I got diabetic neuropathy all the way up to my knees.  these are without a doubt the most comfortable thing on my feet.

 

Those make my feet sweat and stink.

[umpstu]

5 hours ago, The Man in Blue said:

Wow ... I must be the most evil person on the planet.

On ball 1, I say "Ball!"

On ball 2, I say "Ball!"

On ball 3, I say "Ball!"

On ball 4, I say "Ball!"

 

If that gets us nowhere, I will give it a few moments before reminding the batter he can go to first base.

And usually his team is ridiculing him

 

[umpstu]

7 hours ago, beerguy55 said:

I'd rather an ump say "Now go home and get your F*#King shine box"

Don't do it Tommy

[Jimurray]

12 hours ago, Jimurray said:

I think it was at an Evans Clinic that we students were asked how to award 1B on ball four. A bunch of us were saying the usual stuff, take...etc. We then were were laughingly demonstrated the award by the instructor: "ball four". But if you can show me a professional umpire saying it or pointing to 1B I will take this off my faux pas list. Have you been to a clinic where they heard you say "take your base" and they did not dissuade you?

@agdz59 You have not answered the question. have you seen pro umpires doing this? Added question, have you been to a reputable clinic where this was not addressed? Your partners may not want to take away from a great game you both called and will leave that little picayune faux pas detract from a great team experience. It still is a faux pas and some people would question if you had been trained. Although I've trained people that could not stop saying "Dead Ball, Foul Ball" and they still couldn't break the habit. Grin and bear it. I did hear a CWS umpire, last year, call dead ball on a HBP and the world did not collapse. So just ask your assignors if you look like you know what your doing if you say take your base or ball four. 

[agdz59]

35 minutes ago, Jimurray said:

@agdz59 You have not answered the question. have you seen pro umpires doing this? Added question, have you been to a reputable clinic where this was not addressed? Your partners may not want to take away from a great game you both called and will leave that little picayune faux pas detract from a great team experience. It still is a faux pas and some people would question if you had been trained. Although I've trained people that could not stop saying "Dead Ball, Foul Ball" and they still couldn't break the habit. Grin and bear it. I did hear a CWS umpire, last year, call dead ball on a HBP and the world did not collapse. So just ask your assignors if you look like you know what your doing if you say take your base or ball four. 

Are you saying that a partner is going to let my saying "take your base" to the hitter that they and nobody else can hear affect working with me because... they might get kooties or something?

I don't get this ump culture sometimes. 

I mean, I understand the zen of 'less is more' as you level up and the experience level among everyone involved goes up.  But to avoid another ump because of this?  What's the point?

I'm not a big league ump.  I haven't been to a paid-for clinic.  I'm a old software engineer that loves the game, loves being a part of the game, takes pride in learning this craft, getting better and, yes, earning better assignments because of that.  Sure the better assignments for me are JV level games instead of U10 and U11 games.  Is that worthy of your disdain?

Not that I care.

Take you base.

[Jimurray]

32 minutes ago, agdz59 said:

Are you saying that a partner is going to let my saying "take your base" to the hitter that they and nobody else can hear affect working with me because... they might get kooties or something?

I don't get this ump culture sometimes. 

I mean, I understand the zen of 'less is more' as you level up and the experience level among everyone involved goes up.  But to avoid another ump because of this?  What's the point?

I'm not a big league ump.  I haven't been to a paid-for clinic.  I'm a old software engineer that loves the game, loves being a part of the game, takes pride in learning this craft, getting better and, yes, earning better assignments because of that.  Sure the better assignments for me are JV level games instead of U10 and U11 games.  Is that worthy of your disdain?

Not that I care.

Take you base.

Thank you, question answered. Your partner won’t get Kooties and will just attribute it to you being untrained. He will still call with you and just grin and bear some faux pas, especially if he reads your personality. We have been trying to train you and now you admit to not being trained at  a paying clinic. It’s possible you might learn something. So is what we are advising not “learning the craft”? It’s free. 

[SH0102]

5 hours ago, Jimurray said:

Thank you, question answered. Your partner won’t get Kooties and will just attribute it to you being untrained. He will still call with you and just grin and bear some faux pas, especially if he reads your personality. We have been trying to train you and now you admit to not being trained at  a paying clinic. It’s possible you might learn something. So is what we are advising not “learning the craft”? It’s free. 

I don’t do it, I just say ball and never had an issue with people not knowing what to do…but I am genuinely curious why it’s faux pas to say “ball four” but perfectly acceptable to say “strike three”?

They both indicate the at bat is over. 
 

imagine this sequence:

1) Ball

2) strike!

3) strike!  (Hold up 1-2 count with hands)

4) ball

5) ball (hold up 3-2 count with hands)

6) last pitch…”strike”

would that not Inform everyone of the third strike assuming they know the count? But no one I’ve ever worked with doesn’t use “three” in some form.

so again, I follow the same advice Jim is giving. I don’t say ball four, I don’t say take your base, so I’m not arguing.

im genuinely asking what the reason is to practically require “three” when it’s practically forbidden to say “four”

[noumpere]

7 hours ago, agdz59 said:

 takes pride in learning this craft, getting better and, yes, earning better assignments

Defending your position of saying "take your base" is inconsistent with the above.

 

Is it the biggest issue?  No.

Will changing this immediately get you to work the state finals (or even get your first JV game)? No.

But, it's easy to change and will improve other's perception of your umpiring skills, even if they can't tell exactly why.

[LRZ]

Does the ump in question dress professionally? Hustle? Get in proper position? Display good timing? Get the calls right? Communicate well with partners and coaches? Good game management? 

Way, way, WAY down the list--maybe on page four--is "doesn't tell the batter to take his base."

Besides the pro/kiddie ball dichotomy, there may be cultural and regional differences: what is demanded in one state or locale may not even be an issue in another. Around here, the umpire culture is extremely lax, but there are many very good umpires.

[agdz59]

1 hour ago, LRZ said:

Does the ump in question dress professionally? Hustle? Get in proper position? Display good timing? Get the calls right? Communicate well with partners and coaches? Good game management? 

Way, way, WAY down the list--maybe on page four--is "doesn't tell the batter to take his base."

Amen.

[Jimurray]

4 hours ago, SH0102 said:

I don’t do it, I just say ball and never had an issue with people not knowing what to do…but I am genuinely curious why it’s faux pas to say “ball four” but perfectly acceptable to say “strike three”?

They both indicate the at bat is over. 
 

imagine this sequence:

1) Ball

2) strike!

3) strike!  (Hold up 1-2 count with hands)

4) ball

5) ball (hold up 3-2 count with hands)

6) last pitch…”strike”

would that not Inform everyone of the third strike assuming they know the count? But no one I’ve ever worked with doesn’t use “three” in some form.

so again, I follow the same advice Jim is giving. I don’t say ball four, I don’t say take your base, so I’m not arguing.

im genuinely asking what the reason is to practically require “three” when it’s practically forbidden to say “four”

I don’t see anybody saying you shouldn’t say “four”. 

[HokieUmp]

6 hours ago, SH0102 said:

I don’t do it, I just say ball and never had an issue with people not knowing what to do…but I am genuinely curious why it’s faux pas to say “ball four” but perfectly acceptable to say “strike three”?

They both indicate the at bat is over.

..... snip .....

im genuinely asking what the reason is to practically require “three” when it’s practically forbidden to say “four”

@Jimurrayhas already spoken to it a couple hours ago.  But I think the faux pas is the "take your base," as opposed to the "ball four" part.

I've been formally trained.  And I say "Ball 4."  But sometimes I don't.  Sometimes I say "Ball 1" or "Ball 2" or "Ball 3."  Sometimes I don't.  It varies - by game, by inning, by batter.  I think I do it more often when it's the littler guys, or non-scholastic.  But I NEVER say "take your base."

And that's what's considered the faux pas.

Thing is - if you get the games you want, both in quality AND quantity, you do you.  But just know that, just like in hockey, there *is* A Code.

[SH0102]

5 hours ago, HokieUmp said:

@Jimurrayhas already spoken to it a couple hours ago.  But I think the faux pas is the "take your base," as opposed to the "ball four" part.

I've been formally trained.  And I say "Ball 4."  But sometimes I don't.  Sometimes I say "Ball 1" or "Ball 2" or "Ball 3."  Sometimes I don't.  It varies - by game, by inning, by batter.  I think I do it more often when it's the littler guys, or non-scholastic.  But I NEVER say "take your base."

And that's what's considered the faux pas.

Thing is - if you get the games you want, both in quality AND quantity, you do you.  But just know that, just like in hockey, there *is* A Code.

Ahh, perhaps I misread it, sorry