Orioles balk

[Gfoley4]

 is this really a balk though? Sure it looks so weird that I bet no coach would argue and there would be the same result either way, but just curious.

[Jimurray]

No step to 2B that’s a balk. Time. Because of the WTF moment we might pause and then there is a “wild throw”. That happened while the ball was dead. WTF

[dumbdumb]

I would go with 602a comment and the deceiving.

 

[noumpere]

It's an easy balk, although I agree it might be a delayed call because of the WTF factor.

[BT_Blue]

Everyone in the bar thinks it's a balk too.

 

[MadMax]

On 8/8/2020 at 12:15 AM, BT_Blue said:

Everyone in the bar thinks it's a balk too.

A brunette, with eyes like that, I would be able to explain a Balk to.

Some coach? Fuh-getta-bout-iiiiiiit!

[maven]

We get a clue about when the balk occurred in the fact that the PU killed it prior to the pitch. Clearly, then, the balk occurred prior to delivery to the plate (area?). Otherwise, they'd leave it live on the WP and allow the runner to advance (thus mooting the balk penalty).

Someone can confirm this hypothesis by looking up the box score and checking whether F1 was charged with a WP. If not, then it was no pitch.

The step was toward 1B not 2B or HP, but I don't think what he did with the free foot committed him to throwing/feinting to 2B. If not, then it's not a step balk: no rule dictates where F1 must land the free foot when delivering to the pitch. 

I think he might have called a start/stop balk. The move had a substantial hitch in it, which could plausibly be judged as failing the requirement to deliver the pitch "without interruption or alteration."

[Richvee]

I've got a step to 1B and throw to the plate. Should time have been called? it looks like PU puts up the hands and realizes "Oh no, it's live, then sees no one playing and says, "screw it, "Time..That's a balk"

 

[maven]

1 hour ago, Richvee said:

I've got a step to 1B and throw to the plate. 

Rich: so what? Which rule prohibits that?

The "step directly to the base" restriction applies only when throwing/feinting to a base. But here, F1 is pitching: where does the rule dictate where the free foot has to land for a pitch?

Mechanically, of course, stepping sideways is idiotic. You can't get anything on a pitch that way, if the momentum vector isn't toward HP. But as we know, stupid ≠ illegal (and furthermore, weird ≠ illegal).

[Mad Mike]

2 hours ago, maven said:

We get a clue about when the balk occurred in the fact that the PU killed it prior to the pitch. Clearly, then, the balk occurred prior to delivery to the plate (area?). Otherwise, they'd leave it live on the WP and allow the runner to advance (thus mooting the balk penalty).

Someone can confirm this hypothesis by looking up the box score and checking whether F1 was charged with a WP. If not, then it was no pitch.

The step was toward 1B not 2B or HP, but I don't think what he did with the free foot committed him to throwing/feinting to 2B. If not, then it's not a step balk: no rule dictates where F1 must land the free foot when delivering to the pitch. 

I think he might have called a start/stop balk. The move had a substantial hitch in it, which could plausibly be judged as failing the requirement to deliver the pitch "without interruption or alteration."

@Maven, the balk penalty is not mooted unless if the ball is put in play on a balk AND all runners including the batter runner advance at least one base. Then we wave it off and play on. If all runners do not advance one base safely, we wait for action to conclude and then enforce it, correct? 

While the above being the case, what about if they were playing at Oakland which has a deeper backstop than most fields. R2 could have motored home and scored from second, no? 

Or do we think the umpire killed it prematurely thinking that BR obviously was not heading to first and R2 would not have scored.....?

We should leave the ball live until the catcher secures the ball and no further play is possible. Then enforce the balk penalty. And if R2 did try to score and gets thrown out at the plate that is on him. He is out as a balk only allows him one base award, if he takes the risk and gets thrown out too bad for him....and ejections will most likely follow as a coach will not understand how his runner is out on a balk.

[Jimurray]

1 hour ago, maven said:

Rich: so what? Which rule prohibits that?

The "step directly to the base" restriction applies only when throwing/feinting to a base. But here, F1 is pitching: where does the rule dictate where the free foot has to land for a pitch?

Mechanically, of course, stepping sideways is idiotic. You can't get anything on a pitch that way, if the momentum vector isn't toward HP. But as we know, stupid ≠ illegal (and furthermore, weird ≠ illegal).

I don't have a pitch. I have a feint without a step to 2B. Ball dead. A moment to ponder WTF and kill it. The wild pitch never happened. If you judge a wild pitch with a balk @Mad Mike, the batter does not have to advance. You keep it live until all runners have stopped advancing and the catcher is in possesion of the ball in the infield. That didn't happen in the OP but if the umpire judged as Maven did he should have kept it live. But that is not the first time I've seen an MLB umpire kill it when action was relaxed and nothing was going to happen. I think I saw Jerry Lane do it a few years back.

[maven]

3 minutes ago, Jimurray said:

I have a feint without a step to 2B.

Why? All he did was look at 2B. Without arm action, it's not feinting a throw to a base.

[Jimurray]

4 minutes ago, maven said:

Why? All he did was look at 2B. Without arm action, it's not feinting a throw to a base.

Arm action is not needed to feint to a base. From the MLBUM:  "Note that a pitcher, when faking a throw to second base, is not required to have arm action in the fake, although a legal step is required."

[maven]

26 minutes ago, Jimurray said:

Arm action is not needed to feint to a base. From the MLBUM:  "Note that a pitcher, when faking a throw to second base, is not required to have arm action in the fake, although a legal step is required."

Sure, if he steps there, it's a feint, whether or not he moves his arm.

But you're accusing him of feinting without a step and without any arm action. Why? A head turn by itself is never a feint.

[wolfe_man]

I have no where near the knowledge or experience you guys do, but watching the video of this it sure looked odd, but I honestly never saw his motion stop.  There was a slight hesitation in his movement and that's what I'm thinking ended up being balked by the PU. 

The angle of the video didn't show if he stepped back or not (video view was CF camera), but it did look like he didn't step towards the plate or 2B either.  I'm in agreement with @maven that he stepped more towards 1B than any other direction, which was odd since there was no runner there.

No matter what, this F1 was way too concerned with the runner.  I think it got in his head.  JomBoy's take on the whole thing is pretty funny. 

 

[Jimurray]

11 minutes ago, maven said:

Sure, if he steps there, it's a feint, whether or not he moves his arm.

But you're accusing him of feinting without a step and without any arm action. Why? A head turn by itself is never a feint.

But I can judge an attempt to feint from that head turn and the step. The box has him charged with a balk. Either the PU did a Jerry Lane and killed it early after the WP or he killed it after the WTF moment of the step in the wrong direction. I'm thinking the WP didn't happen.

[Richvee]

2 hours ago, maven said:

Rich: so what? Which rule prohibits that?

The "step directly to the base" restriction applies only when throwing/feinting to a base. But here, F1 is pitching: where does the rule dictate where the free foot has to land for a pitch?

Mechanically, of course, stepping sideways is idiotic. You can't get anything on a pitch that way, if the momentum vector isn't toward HP. But as we know, stupid ≠ illegal (and furthermore, weird ≠ illegal).

Rule 6.02(a )(3) Comment:

A pitcher is to step directly toward a base before throwing to that base and is required to throw (except to second base) because he steps.  

[wolfe_man]

2 minutes ago, Jimurray said:

But I can judge an attempt to feint from that head turn and the step. The box has him charged with a balk. Either the PU did a Jerry Lane and killed it early after the WP or he killed it after the WTF moment of the step in the wrong direction. I'm thinking the WP didn't happen.

Watching the video, I think  the PU had killed it because when the WP happens he already is off to the side and has his mask off.

[ArchAngel72]

holy crap I think i counted 3 balks on 1 pitch

[kylehutson]

1 hour ago, wolfe_man said:

JomBoy's take on the whole thing is pretty funny. 

It usually is. Even if he is unusually harsh on the umpires most of the time. I still watch everything he puts out with "breakdown" in the title.

[maven]

2 hours ago, Richvee said:

Rule 6.02(a )(3) Comment:

A pitcher is to step directly toward a base before throwing to that base and is required to throw (except to second base) because he steps.  

Right: no feinting to 1B or 3B. If he steps, he has to throw the ball to the base.

This provision governs pickoffs. It does not apply to delivering the pitch.

[Biscuit]

4 hours ago, maven said:

Right: no feinting to 1B or 3B. If he steps, he has to throw the ball to the base.

This provision governs pickoffs. It does not apply to delivering the pitch.

To me, it looks like he feinted, then realized, oh crap, this is stupid, and tried to save it with a throw (pitch) home. I have a feint to first, then a pitch. I must admit, I'm not 100% sure that's a supportable call. The question is, can you have both a feint and a pitch? 

 

Important to note, the step to first alone does not mean he cannot pitch. Taking in the whole thing though, I think it's obvious that the step was NOT for the purpose of pitching. 

[Rich Ives]

On 8/7/2020 at 12:05 AM, Gfoley4 said:

 is this really a balk though? Sure it looks so weird that I bet no coach would argue and there would be the same result either way, but just curious.

Stepped to 1B and didn't throw there.