NFHS - Ejected coach; where must he go?

[Guest bob]

The high school varsity coach was ejected last night for continuing to argue with the umpire behind the plate.  Coach went into the stands and then down towards right field fence.  The umpire told him to leave the confines of the park.  Can't he stay and watch or must he be out in the parking lot, etc?

[beerguy55]

For his sins he must be cast into the pits of Gehenna.

[Rich Ives]

1 hour ago, Guest bob said:

The high school varsity coach was ejected last night for continuing to argue with the umpire behind the plate.  Coach went into the stands and then down towards right field fence.  The umpire told him to leave the confines of the park.  Can't he stay and watch or must he be out in the parking lot, etc?

 B

[maven]

Quote

NFHS Rule 3-3-2: A coach who is ejected shall leave the vicinity of the playing area immediately and is prohibited from further contact, direct or indirect, with the team during the remainder of the game. He may return when requested to attend to an ill or injured player.

The standard interpretation of "leave the vicinity of the playing area" is to be removed from visual contact with the team and the game. If the umpire can see him, then he's still in the vicinity.

He is not required to go to the parking lot, but for visiting team coaches, that's pretty common.

[Jimurray]

4 minutes ago, maven said:

The standard interpretation of "leave the vicinity of the playing area" is to be removed from visual contact with the team and the game. If the umpire can see him, then he's still in the vicinity.

He is not required to go to the parking lot, but for visiting team coaches, that's pretty common.

2016 Interps:

SITUATION 8: What may a coach who is ejected do? RULING: A coach who is ejected shall immediately leave the vicinity of the playing area and is prohibited from further contact – direct or indirect – with the team during the remainder of the game. His presence away from the field shall be such that he cannot be seen or heard from the playing field. He may return when requested to attend to an ill or injured player. (3-3-2)

[yawetag]

Check with your local state association for any exceptions to this rule, but the ones posted are typical. South Carolina's slides this year used the phrase "visual confines".

[Senor Azul]

Here are a couple of case book plays showing that Mr. maven is right about the parking lot being a common place to retreat to after being ejected.

2019 NFHS Case Book Play 3.3.2 Situation A:  The coach has been ejected for unsportsmanlike conduct. Later in the game, his pitcher complains of a sore arm. The coach returns from the parking lot. RULING:  This is not allowed. The coach must be requested by the umpire before he can return.

3.3.2 Situation C:  F4 is injured by R1’s slide into second base. His coach, who is also the team trainer, was ejected earlier in the game. He is sitting in the parking lot away from the game. RULING:  If the umpire believes that the injured player needs to be attended, he may request the ejected coach to return to the field. The coach cannot return unless requested by the umpire.

FED Official Interpretation:  Rumble:  State associations are responsible for setting guidelines that dictate where game participants go after ejection.

[Guest Bob]

…...and if the coach refuses to leave "the confines of the field".

[scrounge]

1 minute ago, Guest Bob said:

…...and if the coach refuses to leave "the confines of the field".

The game is suspended, let the state handle it from that point.

[yawetag]

12 minutes ago, Guest Bob said:

…...and if the coach refuses to leave "the confines of the field".

1. You find the site administrator and tell him/her to make sure the coach leaves.; and/or

2. You tell the new head coach of his team to tell the old head coach to leave the confines. If he refuses, you eject him, too. Go to the next one.

Eventually you have a non-confine area with coaches there or you have a suspended game.

[SavoyBG]

Here in NJ if he has an assistant who can run the team then he has to leave out of sight and sound. If he is alone as a coach, like maybe a Freshman game on the road, he can go somewhere away from the infield, but where he can still see the game, since he is still responsible for supervising the kids.

[LRZ]

21 minutes ago, SavoyBG said:

.... If he is alone as a coach, like maybe a Freshman game on the road, he can go somewhere away from the infield, but where he can still see the game, since he is still responsible for supervising the kids.

No adult in the dugout? How does that work? Who makes substitutions, who calls play and maybe pitches? 

[HokieUmp]

7 minutes ago, LRZ said:

No adult in the dugout? How does that work? Who makes substitutions, who calls play and maybe pitches? 

I'd like to think that somewhere in this big old world, there are HS pitchers/catchers that either know the game well enough to do it themselves, or just throw the ball and see what happens.  I especially think that thought while I wait for the pitch to be relayed Every. Single. Time.

[maven]

55 minutes ago, LRZ said:

No adult in the dugout? How does that work? Who makes substitutions, who calls play and maybe pitches? 

For a HS game, it doesn't. Suspend the game and let the state figure it out.

Around here, that school would have some 'splainin to do.

[LRZ]

What I meant was: how does this work without adult supervision in the dugout and on the playing field? I forgot about using blue font.

I would not continue a game without adult supervision present to exercise supervision. A banished coach does not meet that standard.

[Senor Azul]

According to the 2016 BRD (section 169, p. 127) your question was a POE in 1989: State associations could have rules that supersede the FED to ensure high school players remain under adult supervision.

For example I found one state policy online that says if no other adult is available then the contest is forfeited--a pretty good reason for the coach to keep his cool, wouldn't you agree?

[beerguy55]

2 hours ago, LRZ said:

No adult in the dugout? How does that work? Who makes substitutions, who calls play and maybe pitches? 

Meh - my daughter had her national certification to coach at 16.  By the time we got to U18 we had four players who were certified to coach.   I think the captains can figure it out, and should have the respect of the other players to do it without incident.

[yawetag]

Don't really care what certification anyone in the dugout has. I need an adult in the dugout.

And, as @Senor Azul said above (and I said earlier), follow what your state says to do. Ask this at the beginning of the year next year if there's nothing codified.

[blue23ll]

If there is no certified adult coach/administrator who can supervise the players, the game is suspended. 

[Kevin_K]

7 hours ago, SavoyBG said:

Here in NJ if he has an assistant who can run the team then he has to leave out of sight and sound. If he is alone as a coach, like maybe a Freshman game on the road, he can go somewhere away from the infield, but where he can still see the game, since he is still responsible for supervising the kids.

Here are the guidelines for solo coaches per NJSIAA regulations. See page 14.

 

[Richvee]

7 hours ago, LRZ said:

No adult in the dugout? How does that work? Who makes substitutions, who calls play and maybe pitches? 

Have we gotten to the point where kids can’t play baseball if an adult isn’t telling them what to do?  If their coach is tool and  got ejected from a game where he knows he’ the only adult, my guess is the kids know he’s a tool too, and will probably have more fun playing baseball without the jack wagon up their asses  

Oh.. by the way, @SavoyBG is correct. In NJ the ejected coach can stay in view but not coach. 

“ Whenever it becomes necessary to disqualify a coach from the game, the official should determine the availability of another coach or qualified faculty member who can assume responsibility for the team. 

If the administrator is able to designate such a person The disqualified coach must leave the immediate area. 

If not he should be assigned to an area where he can visually observe the game and be available to protect the safety and welfare of the team. If the disqualified coach uses this privilege to communicate with the team or is again guilty of an unsportsmanlike act,  the game shall be terminated and the central office of the NJSIAA notified in writing. “ 

[Senor Azul]

Mr. blue23ll, the state of Washington through its governing agency the WIAA had the following question and answer in its 2017-2018 coach handbook--

2017-2018 WASHINGTON INTERSCHOLASTIC ACTIVITIES ASSOCIATION HANDBOOK

Q&A-1: As the only coach at the baseball game, I was ejected for unsportsmanlike conduct. The umpire called the game because there was no other adult school representative present to assume the coaching duties. Was this the correct action?

YES; when the coach is ejected and there are no other authorized adult school district personnel present to supervise the team, the contest is terminated and forfeiture declared.

[maven]

If a coach's ejection is part of a penalty for violating 3-3-1 (l–q), then failure to comply with the ejection is grounds for forfeit by rule, not by state adoption.

Quote

3-3-1 PENALTY The umpire shall eject the offender from the game. Failure to comply shall result in game being forfeited.

 

[LRZ]

For those of you who took my question seriously, please read my second post:

"What I meant was: how does this work without adult supervision in the dugout and on the playing field? I forgot about using blue font. I would not continue a game without adult supervision present to exercise supervision. A banished coach does not meet that standard."

I meant to question the absence of supervision, not who calls plays or strategy.

The catcher peers into the dugout to get the sign from the coach. He then looks down at his chart (or whatever they are called) on his forearm and gets the right connection. He then gives the signal to the pitcher. But, hey, let's speed the game up, right?

[blue23ll]

14 hours ago, Senor Azul said:

Mr. blue23ll, the state of Washington through its governing agency the WIAA had the following question and answer in its 2017-2018 coach handbook--

2017-2018 WASHINGTON INTERSCHOLASTIC ACTIVITIES ASSOCIATION HANDBOOK

Q&A-1: As the only coach at the baseball game, I was ejected for unsportsmanlike conduct. The umpire called the game because there was no other adult school representative present to assume the coaching duties. Was this the correct action?

YES; when the coach is ejected and there are no other authorized adult school district personnel present to supervise the team, the contest is terminated and forfeiture declared.

We terminate (suspend) the game. What happens after that isn't our concern. 

[beerguy55]

23 hours ago, yawetag said:

Don't really care what certification anyone in the dugout has. I need an adult in the dugout.

And, as @Senor Azul said above (and I said earlier), follow what your state says to do. Ask this at the beginning of the year next year if there's nothing codified.

The question I specifically answered was about whether or not you need an adult to determine lineups or call pitches.   You don't need an adult to coach a game any more than you need an adult to umpire a game.  Many minor teenagers are well qualified and capable of doing both or either and if we want to see the pipeline of both full for the future I hope that's where either of them get their start.

If the state/association mandates it, that's a different discussion.   If there is a qualified coach as per the governing rules that determines the standard for a coach, the age should only matter if it is one of the specific rules.  Otherwise, your need for an adult may be over-reaching.    Likewise, I would question any coach that demanded an adult umpire.