All Star FM4000MAG

[umptwo]

On 10/3/2018 at 9:31 AM, acpar72 said:

I have the regular LUC pads on my All Star Mag like Jim.  Opens up vision MUCH better than the oversized pad.  

When you say “regular” LUC, do you men the LUC pads that would come with an FM25, or ones that would come with a regular (steel) FM4000?  (Embedded in that question is whether the pads for the steel and mag 4000 are identical or not.)

[Thunderheads]

12 hours ago, umptwo said:

When you say “regular” LUC, do you men the LUC pads that would come with an FM25, or ones that would come with a regular (steel) FM4000?  (Embedded in that question is whether the pads for the steel and mag 4000 are identical or not.)

All LUC pads are the same except for the lower pad on the new FM4000 MAG

[acpar72]

I mean, that I ordered LUC pads from All Star after I noticed how much of the "low" went away with the oversized pad sold with the 4000MAG.  I had to request the LUC pads that come standard with the S7 because they are split allowing for the center vertical bar on the MAG. 

[Thunderheads]

7 minutes ago, acpar72 said:

I mean, that I ordered LUC pads from All Star after I noticed how much of the "low" went away with the oversized pad sold with the 4000MAG.  I had to request the LUC pads that come standard with the S7 because they are split allowing for the center vertical bar on the MAG. 

Good point here ......  while the LUC PADS are indeed the same (LUC for the FM25, and LUC for the FM4000) ....the 4000 pads chin velcro is split to accept the middle chin bar.

The 4000-MAG pads are obviously also split.  All that said, you can still get standard LUC pads and cut the chin velcro yourself to fit a 4000  

[bluetick48]

Mail came today and my Mag showed up BLACK. No need for the powder coat now lol. 

[BT_Blue]

3 hours ago, bluetick48 said:

Mail came today and my Mag showed up BLACK. No need for the powder coat now lol. 

[umpstu]

5 hours ago, bluetick48 said:

Mail came today and my Mag showed up BLACK. No need for the powder coat now lol. 

Who did you order from?

[bluetick48]

1 minute ago, umpstu said:

Who did you order from?

Baseball Express...... $179 Shipped 

[umpstu]

11 minutes ago, bluetick48 said:

Baseball Express...... $179 Shipped 

 

Did they accidentally ship the black one to you?

[bluetick48]

9 minutes ago, umpstu said:

Did they accidentally ship the black one to you?

I’m guessing so, but they’re not getting it back lol....

[tpatience]

3 hours ago, bluetick48 said:

I’m guessing so, but they’re not getting it back lol....

If you look at the model number, it has BLK at the end. I’m guessing that it wasn’t a mistake and they just didn’t update pictures and description 

[acpar72]

Whats the promo code?

[acpar72]

On ‎10‎/‎9‎/‎2018 at 12:20 AM, tpatience said:

If you look at the model number, it has BLK at the end. I’m guessing that it wasn’t a mistake and they just didn’t update pictures and description 

That is incorrect. "BLK" stands for black, which is identifying the pads and not the frame.  However, it is now available from UA.  Also, All Star's Instagram account identifies future deerskin padding. The Instagram account also states back in September that the matte black frames are "back" in stock.  So now I'm wondering...maybe Jim and Chris did receive black frames from All Star?  I mean, why or how would they take the time to have someone paint their frame?  

[JDavis225]

What's the big craze with these masks? I'm watching Boston and Houston at the moment and Guccione (sp?) is wearing one and I've also seen others. Are they more protective? Lighter? Just trying to figure out why everyone is switching to those atrocious masks.

[BT_Blue]

1 hour ago, JDavis225 said:

What's the big craze with these masks? I'm watching Boston and Houston at the moment and Guccione (sp?) is wearing one and I've also seen others. Are they more protective? Lighter? Just trying to figure out why everyone is switching to those atrocious masks.

From what I understand it has to do with weight, durability, and deflection angles making it safe to wear. 

[wolfe_man]

I can attest that they are wicked light.  Feels like nothings in the box when you get it.  Offers good vision and then what BT_Blue mentioned - better angles for deflection, etc.  Plus, magnesium doesn't bend.  It's a super tough mask with great looks and next to no weight.  Nothing to dislike here.

[bluetick48]

What @wolfe_man said ☝️☝️☝️

[MadMax]

6 hours ago, JDavis225 said:

Just trying to figure out why everyone is switching to those atrocious masks.

Blasphemy. Besides, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

The FM4000's planform is born out of research by All-Star, undertaken on their own, aimed at designing a mask that was strong, resistant to (most) deformation by transferring load outward, reducing the amount of flat surfaces presented to a ball. Through CAD work, they arrived at a pyramidal -shaped cage, curved along an arc. The utilized this cage in what became their signature HSM, the MVP2500 / 4000. Going further, they expanded it into a TM, with the mask shaped almost as a true half-sphere, but also curved around the face so as to increase pad contact and effectiveness.

Lots of design and science here.

While All-Star introduced the FM4000 in a hollow steel model, it was what they did "behind the curtain" during the next five years that really makes them stand out amongst their peers. Of the various materials that could be employed for a mask, magnesium had always been intriguing – supremely lightweight, incredibly stiff and resistant to deformation (bending). Its limitation, though, was one of cost (understandable) and bonding – magnesium is not welded together, but instead is cemented (or, more like glued). Welds are more desirable than glue joints because the bond is homogenous, and thus, easier and less costly to do en masse. Cement or glue bonding becomes more costly because you have to introduce another substance, control the amount, allow it to set and cure, and then quality control check it to make sure it held. Magnesium becomes much more attractive when you can eliminate all joints and bonds, and the magnesium alloy part is die cast. So, All-Star worked out how to die cast molten magnesium alloy into their strongest mask geometry (planform).

The resulting FM4000MAG mask is incredibly light. And, because it is magnesium (alloy) it will never bend or break. There aren't any welds or bond joints to pop, either. The mask is one piece, injection-molded, homogenous magnesium.

Now, this extreme light-weight-ness comes at a single price – like titanium, there is such little mass and density, the mask will instantly transfer compressive energy (impact force) to the next thing adjacent to it, in this case, the pads. It is absolutely crucial that high-density (Team Wendys at least) or high-volume pads are used. One of the first professional catchers to use the FM4000MAG, Jonathan Lucroy, identified that the pads needed to be thicker (greater volume), and could benefit from having a pressure plate. As such, the latest version of LUC-4K pads have a hard plastic plate as their foundation, which makes contact with the mask bars. Then, the pads' volume is greatly increased. When any force impacts the mask at a localized spot, the entire plate is engaged and the force distributed throughout the entirety of the pad. While the chin pad received this treatment, the forehead pad did not. Why would it? Catchers wear a helmet with their mask, do they not? This helps to absorb and dissipate most of that energy. Who would wear just a common hat?

Huh.

[BT_Blue]

As has been asked before... I wonder All Star has any thoughts of making an upper pad that we can use or that a catcher that wants extra padding could use? 

[Aging_Arbiter]

On ‎10‎/‎21‎/‎2018 at 1:18 AM, MadMax said:

beauty is in the eye of the beholder

BEholder................................That's where I got confused.  I though it was BEERholder.

[kylejt]

Or, just get a Champro, load it with TW pads and a Wilson harness. 

Oh, and what's with the sports bra on the All Star?

[LineyNinja]

I have heard rumors that there are tan pads in the works. I can only hope it comes on the market sooner than later.

[umpstu]

On 10/20/2018 at 10:18 PM, MadMax said:

Blasphemy. Besides, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

The FM4000's planform is born out of research by All-Star, undertaken on their own, aimed at designing a mask that was strong, resistant to (most) deformation by transferring load outward, reducing the amount of flat surfaces presented to a ball. Through CAD work, they arrived at a pyramidal -shaped cage, curved along an arc. The utilized this cage in what became their signature HSM, the MVP2500 / 4000. Going further, they expanded it into a TM, with the mask shaped almost as a true half-sphere, but also curved around the face so as to increase pad contact and effectiveness.

Lots of design and science here.

While All-Star introduced the FM4000 in a hollow steel model, it was what they did "behind the curtain" during the next five years that really makes them stand out amongst their peers. Of the various materials that could be employed for a mask, magnesium had always been intriguing – supremely lightweight, incredibly stiff and resistant to deformation (bending). Its limitation, though, was one of cost (understandable) and bonding – magnesium is not welded together, but instead is cemented (or, more like glued). Welds are more desirable than glue joints because the bond is homogenous, and thus, easier and less costly to do en masse. Cement or glue bonding becomes more costly because you have to introduce another substance, control the amount, allow it to set and cure, and then quality control check it to make sure it held. Magnesium becomes much more attractive when you can eliminate all joints and bonds, and the magnesium alloy part is die cast. So, All-Star worked out how to die cast molten magnesium alloy into their strongest mask geometry (planform).

The resulting FM4000MAG mask is incredibly light. And, because it is magnesium (alloy) it will never bend or break. There aren't any welds or bond joints to pop, either. The mask is one piece, injection-molded, homogenous magnesium.

Now, this extreme light-weight-ness comes at a single price – like titanium, there is such little mass and density, the mask will instantly transfer compressive energy (impact force) to the next thing adjacent to it, in this case, the pads. It is absolutely crucial that high-density (Team Wendys at least) or high-volume pads are used. One of the first professional catchers to use the FM4000MAG, Jonathan Lucroy, identified that the pads needed to be thicker (greater volume), and could benefit from having a pressure plate. As such, the latest version of LUC-4K pads have a hard plastic plate as their foundation, which makes contact with the mask bars. Then, the pads' volume is greatly increased. When any force impacts the mask at a localized spot, the entire plate is engaged and the force distributed throughout the entirety of the pad. While the chin pad received this treatment, the forehead pad did not. Why would it? Catchers wear a helmet with their mask, do they not? This helps to absorb and dissipate most of that energy. Who would wear just a common hat?

Huh.

Yes. The top pad definitely transfers the force to your forehead.  Took a hit yesterday and it was a sharp pain.  Any suggestions for a forehead pad to alleviate it?

[MadMax]

17 minutes ago, umpstu said:

Yes. The top pad definitely transfers the force to your forehead.  Took a hit yesterday and it was a sharp pain.  Any suggestions for a forehead pad to alleviate it?

That was likely the top pad "bottoming out", compressing flat such that the mask bars made contact with your forehead.

Stu, I'm sorry to hear that this happened to you... hope you're AOK and unaffected long term. This just steels me to get my hard hat out and in production.

[BT_Blue]

9 minutes ago, MadMax said:

That was likely the top pad "bottoming out", compressing flat such that the mask bars made contact with your forehead.

Stu, I'm sorry to hear that this happened to you... hope you're AOK and unaffected long term. This just steels me to get my hard hat out and in production.

Did someone release a hard plastic plate that could be put into the hat as a way of protecting pitchers against concussions from line drives hit back at them? I remember a pitcher for the Ray's had such a hat. But it was bulky, cumbersome, and looked like he was a toddler wearing his dad's size 8 lid.