I got a good one- fielders balk?

[Double Up]

I honestly wasn't responsible for this one...   in a game tonight, one of the umpires called a fielders balk.  

Generally speaking, here'e the basics of the situation...  The ball is put in play with everyone on the field in the positions.     1B steps to hold R1 on base  and places one foot fair in front the bag and one foot foul, outside the bag (not touching the base at all).  The pitch is thrown and the base umpire immediately calls "feilder balk" and awards the R1  second base.

i won't bother to tell you the age group, it's irrelevant....  what's the right call?  when would you make this call and whats the proper way to enforce it.     

 

Usually you see this pre-pitch, and you don't put the ball in play until everyone is on the field of play (with exception to the catcher)..   At  least that's what I believe you should do....   

I have never called this post-pitch,  so  whats the right call and  how do you enforce it? 

 

            

[Rich Ives]

4 minutes ago, ElkOil said:

There's no such thing as a "fielder's balk." Only the pitcher can balk. In this case, if the pitcher delivers a pitch without all fielders being in fair territory, it's a balk, plain and simple. Award runners one base.

Nice try but incorrect.

OBR: Just tell F3 to get fair. Never a balk.

In FED he can have one foot foul and be fair. Only a balk if both feet foul - but don't let it get that far.

[maven]

24 minutes ago, noumpere said:

Even in FED where it could technically be a balk (not the OP, but in the case where both feet are entirely in foul territory), it's impossible to call.  If you see it before the pitch, fix it.  If you don't see it before the pitch (and only see it after), you don't know that F3 didn't move.

In general, this is a provision that umpires ignore until one team brings it up, then we enforce it equally for both teams by making sure fielders are in fair (per the applicable rule's definition) before the pitch. I won't look for it until someone complains (which has happened to me exactly once).

Never, ever, call this balk.

[ElkOil]

There's no such thing as a "fielder's balk." Only the pitcher can balk. In this case, if the pitcher delivers a pitch without all fielders being in fair territory, it's a balk, plain and simple. Award runners one base.

[Double Up]

who else wants to play "stump the ump" ?

lol.  

 

okay, only a balk... both feet foul.. but dont let it get to that....  hahaha 

 

[noumpere]

Even in FED where it could technically be a balk (not the OP, but in the case where both feet are entirely in foul territory), it's impossible to call.  If you see it before the pitch, fix it.  If you don't see it before the pitch (and only see it after), you don't know that F3 didn't move.

 

Still, it's a common myth and the OP won't be the only time it happens this season

[basejester]

I suspect the origin of this myth is the rule itself.  But a balk is the penalty for (a), not for all of 5.02 (4.03).

5.02 (4.03) Fielding Positions
When the ball is put in play at the start of, or during a game, all
fielders other than the catcher shall be on fair territory.
(a) The catcher shall station himself directly back of the plate. He
may leave his position at any time to catch a pitch or make a
play except that when the batter is being given an intentional
base on balls, the catcher must stand with both feet within the
lines of the catcher’s box until the ball leaves the pitcher’s hand.
PENALTY: Balk.
(b) The pitcher, while in the act of delivering the ball to the batter,
shall take his legal position;
(c) Except the pitcher and the catcher, any fielder may station himself
anywhere in fair territory.

[maineump]

With less than 3 umpires, why would you be looking at the 1B's feet? Watch the ball.

[Jimurray]

40 minutes ago, basejester said:

I suspect the origin of this myth is the rule itself.  But a balk is the penalty for (a), not for all of 5.02 (4.03).

5.02 (4.03) Fielding Positions
When the ball is put in play at the start of, or during a game, all
fielders other than the catcher shall be on fair territory.
(a) The catcher shall station himself directly back of the plate. He
may leave his position at any time to catch a pitch or make a
play except that when the batter is being given an intentional
base on balls, the catcher must stand with both feet within the
lines of the catcher’s box until the ball leaves the pitcher’s hand.
PENALTY: Balk.
(b) The pitcher, while in the act of delivering the ball to the batter,
shall take his legal position;
(c) Except the pitcher and the catcher, any fielder may station himself
anywhere in fair territory.

And proper indentation as per the rule would make that clear.

[Richvee]

MLBUM

3.18 First baseman playing in foul territory

 

..In particular, when holding a runner on 1st base, the first baseman shall position himself with both feet in fair territory. There is no penalty specified for violation other than the first baseman shall be instructed to keep both feet in fair territory if brought to the attention of the umpire. or - if blatant or recurring violation - upon immediate direction of the umpire. If a player, after so directed by the umpire, blatantly refuses to comply, the player is subject to ejection.

[stkjock]

The Keith Hernandez rule IIRC

[noumpere]

9 hours ago, stkjock said:

The Keith Hernandez rule IIRC

It's been around for way longer than Keith Hernandez.

[stkjock]

36 minutes ago, noumpere said:

It's been around for way longer than Keith Hernandez.

ok, I recalled a story that relayed that KH would stand with both feet in foul territory habitually and caused MLB to do something with the rule.

[maven]

2 minutes ago, stkjock said:

ok, I recalled a story that relayed that KH would stand with both feet in foul territory habitually and caused MLB to do something with the rule.

Yes, they enforced it.

[stkjock]

so far I cannot find good reference other than an entry on Wiki, I know I'm not old enough to have been in the know when this would have gone down.

 

Quote

Hernandez also revolutionized the position— until umpires disallowed what he did— by taking pickoff throws while essentially squatting in foul territory so that he could make tags to his right more readily. Positioning oneself in foul territory is now illegal, according to official baseball rules, which state that all defensive players except the catcher must be positioned in fair territory while the ball is pitched.

 

[ZebraStripes]

One option is to do as I did on Monday.  "Time!  Get your foot in fair territory."

[Rich Ives]

1 hour ago, stkjock said:

so far I cannot find good reference other than an entry on Wiki, I know I'm not old enough to have been in the know when this would have gone down.

 

 

Urban legend

[maven]

The wiki quote is technically accurate. Hernandez "revolutionized" his position by doing something illegal (true, depending on what one means by 'revolutionized'). The umpires enforced the rule (true). It is now illegal to do what he did (true).

Unfortunately, the conversational implication of calling something "now illegal" is to suggest that previously it was not illegal. That's false.

Conversational implicature is a good source of humor. In Stripes, the army recruiter asks Bill Murray and Harold Ramis whether they've been convicted of a felony. They glance at each other, and they say, "Convicted? No, never convicted."

Also , I sometimes introduce my wife as "my current wife." She doesn't like that.

 

[NickG]

On 5/3/2016 at 10:15 PM, ElkOil said:

There's no such thing as a "fielder's balk." Only the pitcher can balk. In this case, if the pitcher delivers a pitch without all fielders being in fair territory, it's a balk, plain and simple. Award runners one base.

Actually, it's not technically true that only the pitcher can balk. Ever heard of the "catcher's balk"? See Rule 7.07 (OBR 2014; that's 6.01(g) in the 2015 book). Or you can read about it HERE.

[maven]

2 minutes ago, NickG said:

Actually, it's not technically true that only the pitcher can balk. Ever heard of the "catcher's balk"? See Rule 7.07 (OBR 2014; that's 6.01(g) in the 2015 book). Or you can read about it HERE.

Yes, it's technically true. The catcher can be wherever he wants; the infraction is pitching when the catcher is not in his box, and only the pitcher can pitch.

By the way, if you read the page that you link, it repeatedly states that the pitcher is charged with the balk.

Thank you for playing, we have a lovely consolation prize for you.

[ALStripes17]

Yes, it's technically true. The catcher can be wherever he wants; the infraction is pitching when the catcher is not in his box, and only the pitcher can pitch.

By the way, if you read the page that you link, it repeatedly states that the pitcher is charged with the balk.

Thank you for playing, we have a lovely consolation prize for you.

Ahh ... The Umpire Bible blog ... authoritative AND sassy.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

[Aging_Arbiter]

2 hours ago, maven said:

 

Also , I sometimes introduce my wife as "my current wife." She doesn't like that.

 

I still introduce mine as my future ex-wife.

 

Hmmmmm, could have something to do with all of the SWMBO posts..................

[stkjock]

2 hours ago, maven said:

The wiki quote is technically accurate. Hernandez "revolutionized" his position by doing something illegal (true, depending on what one means by 'revolutionized'). The umpires enforced the rule (true). It is now illegal to do what he did (true).

Unfortunately, the conversational implication of calling something "now illegal" is to suggest that previously it was not illegal. That's false.

Conversational implicature is a good source of humor. In Stripes, the army recruiter asks Bill Murray and Harold Ramis whether they've been convicted of a felony. They glance at each other, and they say, "Convicted? No, never convicted."

Also , I sometimes introduce my wife as "my current wife." She doesn't like that.

 

Appearing here all week?  or next stop The Laugh Factory?

 

 

I may have to steal that wife line

[ElkOil]

12 hours ago, NickG said:

Actually, it's not technically true that only the pitcher can balk. Ever heard of the "catcher's balk"? See Rule 7.07 (OBR 2014; that's 6.01(g) in the 2015 book). Or you can read about it HERE.

Let me get this straight. You're referencing YOUR OWN blog in which YOU YOURSELF state to charge the PITCHER with the balk, yet you want me to believe that somehow the catcher can balk? You say in your introductory post that you "devote a lot of time to umpire education and training." I don't need to point out the irony in that, do I?

[kylehutson]

On 5/4/2016 at 9:39 AM, maven said:

Also , I sometimes introduce my wife as "my current wife." She doesn't like that.

There's was a retiree around here that would refer to his wife as "the woman I've been sleeping with for the last 50 years".

He had a great sense of humor. One day I was behind him in line at the grocery store. He signed his check with his initials: "O.F.". He turned to me and said "That stands for Oliver Floyd. I have to tell people that or they think it stands for Old Fart."

[maven]

8 hours ago, kylehutson said:

There's was a retiree around here that would refer to his wife as "the woman I've been sleeping with for the last 50 years".

Dude: that's NOT his wife....