Change to FED 1-4-2

[ElkOil]

The 2016 FED 1-4-2 has a change that pitchers can only wear a solid black or dark compression sleeve below the elbow, and this doesn't affect the uniform shirt sleeve.  How do we tell the difference between a compression sleeve, a compression shirt sleeve and a uniform sleeve?  I've seen lots of shirts that are difficult to differentiate.

Edited January 9, 2016 by ElkOil

[Jimurray]

The 2016 FED 1-4-2 has a change that pitcher's can only wear a solid black or dark compression sleeve below the elbow, and this doesn't affect the uniform shirt sleeve.  How do we tell the difference between a compression sleeve, a compression shirt sleeve and a uniform sleeve?  I've seen lots of shirts that are difficult to differentiate.

I think if he wears one sleeve it would be compression and should be dark. If there are sleeves on both arms it would be an undershirt and can't be white or gray below the elbow. 

[Umpirechick1]

If it's like the one they show, it will be easy - the blue checkered camo look.  We were discussing it last night and most said "If in doubt, just ask." And that seemed to be the general consensus.  It would only take about 30 seconds.

[catsbackr]

Judgement.  If you find it distracting, have them remove it.

[ElkOil]

Judgement.  If you find it distracting, have them remove it.

The compression sleeve rule removes judgement, though.  The uniform sleeve rule has some more latitude built into it.

1-4-2 states:

Compression sleeves that are solid black or solid dark-colored shall be the only colors allowed to be worn by the pitcher below his elbow.

The thing I can see being a point of contention is that it's okay for a uniform sleeve to be camo, but not a compression sleeve on the same arm.  I can't wait to enforce this one.  

[Richvee]

The compression sleeve rule removes judgement, though.  The uniform sleeve rule has some more latitude built into it.

1-4-2 states:

Compression sleeves that are solid black or solid dark-colored shall be the only colors allowed to be worn by the pitcher below his elbow.

The thing I can see being a point of contention is that it's okay for a uniform sleeve to be camo, but not a compression sleeve on the same arm.  I can't wait to enforce this one.  

Par for the course for FED...hey you can have a white shirt showing above your elbow if it's the shirt from a vest/shirt combo uniform but you can't have a white undershirt sleeve showing out from under your normal button up uniform shirt. From the rule...

"If the pitcher's undershirt sleeves are exposed, they shall not be white or gray."

However if they're white sleeves under a vest, somehow,that makes it OK.

"A vest and coordinating shirt that is worn underneath is viewed as a type of uniform top."

1.4.2 SITUATION A:

Team A wears the new vest-type jersey. The school's colors are red and white. Its road uniform top is red, with a white undershirt. The pitcher is wearing this uniform. (a) The sleeve of the white shirt does not extend beyond his elbow or (b) He is wearing a long-sleeved, white-compression shirt that extends beyond the elbow.

RULING: Legal in (a), illegal in (b).

Edited January 8, 2016 by Richvee

[Jimurray]

Par for the course for FED...hey you can have a white shirt showing above your elbow if it's the shirt from a vest/shirt combo uniform but you can't have a white undershirt sleeve showing out from under your normal button up uniform shirt. From the rule...

"If the pitcher's undershirt sleeves are exposed, they shall not be white or gray."

However if they're white sleeves under a vest, somehow,that makes it OK.

"A vest and coordinating shirt that is worn underneath is viewed as a type of uniform top."

1.4.2 SITUATION A:

Team A wears the new vest-type jersey. The school's colors are red and white. Its road uniform top is red, with a white undershirt. The pitcher is wearing this uniform. (a) The sleeve of the white shirt does not extend beyond his elbow or (b) He is wearing a long-sleeved, white-compression shirt that extends beyond the elbow.

RULING: Legal in (a), illegal in (b).

I think the subsequent case play makes any white or gray legal above the elbow for any type jersey:

 

"

Results for elbow
Rule: 1.4.2 1.4.2 SITUATION A:  Team A wears the new vest-type jersey. The school's colors are red and white. Its road uniform top is red, with a white undershirt. The pitcher is wearing this uniform. (a) The sleeve of the white shirt does not extend beyond his elbow or (b) He is wearing a long-sleeved, white-compression shirt that extends beyond the elbow.  RULING: Legal in (a), illegal in (b).
Rule: 1.4.2   1.4.2 SITUATION B:  Team A wears its gray road traditional sleeved jerseys. The sleeves of the jersey extend beyond the pitcher's elbow.  RULING: This is an illegal jersey for the pitcher."   At least that's how we call it in my neck of the woods.

[Richvee]

I think the subsequent case play makes any white or gray legal above the elbow for any type jersey:

 

"

Results for elbow
Rule: 1.4.2 1.4.2 SITUATION A:  Team A wears the new vest-type jersey. The school's colors are red and white. Its road uniform top is red, with a white undershirt. The pitcher is wearing this uniform. (a) The sleeve of the white shirt does not extend beyond his elbow or (b) He is wearing a long-sleeved, white-compression shirt that extends beyond the elbow.  RULING: Legal in (a), illegal in (b).
Rule: 1.4.2   1.4.2 SITUATION B:  Team A wears its gray road traditional sleeved jerseys. The sleeves of the jersey extend beyond the pitcher's elbow.  RULING: This is an illegal jersey for the pitcher."   At least that's how we call it in my neck of the woods.

I call it this way as well, but when I read it all together, it seems to say  that an undershirt under a traditional uniform top cannot be exposed at all.

I'd like to see a case play that says.

"F1 is wearing a traditional grey short sleeve uniform. His undershirt is white, and is longer than his uniform sleeve, but above his elbow. 

[ElkOil]

I call it this way as well, but when I read it all together, it seems to say  that an undershirt under a traditional uniform top cannot be exposed at all.

I'd like to see a case play that says.

"F1 is wearing a traditional grey short sleeve uniform. His undershirt is white, and is longer than his uniform sleeve, but above his elbow. 

My understanding is that is correct.  The undershirt can be any color as long as the sleeve stays above the elbow.  If it extends below the elbow, it can't be white or gray.  And specifically, if it's a compression sleeve, it must be solid and dark.  So that implies that as long the sleeve isn't a compression sleeve, it can be that camo stuff that's popular, or any color/color combination that doesn't violate the shirt sleeve rule.  That's how I'm taking this, anyway.

[maven]

I call it this way as well, but when I read it all together, it seems to say  that an undershirt under a traditional uniform top cannot be exposed at all.

I'd like to see a case play that says.

"F1 is wearing a traditional grey short sleeve uniform. His undershirt is white, and is longer than his uniform sleeve, but above his elbow. 

That's what 1.4.2A says. If his undershirt sleeves were shorter than his uniform sleeves, I wouldn't see it or know what color it was.

Just be glad baseball doesn't have the basketball rule....

[Richvee]

Here's the way I read this rule and it's 2 case plays...

Let's assume this is a pitcher. He's fine as is.

If he had a white undershirt, it couldn't show at all. "If the pitcher's undershirt sleeves are exposed, they shall not be white or gray."

 Now if he's wearing a vest uniform like this...

Then the sleeves could be white or grey as long as they're not below the elbow.  Case play 1.4.2A

While searching for some uniform pics, I found one that unfortunately would be illegal, but I don't think we'd hear any complaints from either team

[ElkOil]

And this would be okay:

But this would be illegal:

It seems silly to me that FED would single out compression sleeves.

[FleasOf1000Camels]

I don't see what the conflict is.  Shirt, compression sleeve or whatever...pitcher cant have white or gray showing below the elbow.

Edited January 11, 2016 by FleasOf1000Camels

[Richvee]

I don't see what the conflict it.  Shirt, compression sleeve or whatever...pitcher cant have white or gray showing below the elbow.

My point is the rule seems to state  a white/grey undershirt that is showing at all from under a traditional short sleeve uniform is not OK. However, if it is a vest type uniform the shirt could be white above the elbow, obviously showing from under the vest. I don't get why showing whit is OK with one type uniform shirt, but not another.

[kylehutson]

What about sleeves like this?

We have a team in our area that has this (or something very similar). It's not predominantly white or grey, but there is white or grey in it. In my opinion, it's not distracting, but I would also like it to be enforced consistently.

[noumpere]

From the 2014 Interps (emphasis added):

 

SITUATION 17: The starting pitcher comes to the mound to take his warm-up throws to start the game. He is wearing a compression sleeve only on his throwing arm. The opposing coach demands that the sleeve be taken off before the pitcher may pitch. RULING: A pitcher may wear a compression or medical sleeve on one or both arms that is any color, including one that is white or gray, provided it does not extend below the elbow. A doctor’s signed permission slip is not required. If the pitcher wears a sleeve that extends below the elbow, it can be worn on either arm, provided it is not white or gray or have white/gray on it. It also cannot be of a color or color combination that would be deemed distracting by the plate umpire.

 

And, all the camo I've seen in this thread would be judged "distracting"

 

(NCAA gets around this by requiring a neoprene sleeve to be covered by an undershirt and the undershirt must be a solid color)

[conbo61]

"Coach, the sleeve is distracting to ME. I want my calls to be consistent between teams."

Seems to cover it.

[JaxRolo]

And this would be okay:

But this would be illegal:

It seems silly to me that FED would single out compression sleeves.

Illegal. Has greys in it.

[JaxRolo]

What about sleeves like this?

We have a team in our area that has this (or something very similar). It's not predominantly white or grey, but there is white or grey in it. In my opinion, it's not distracting, but I would also like it to be enforced consistently.

No no no

[ElkOil]

Illegal. Has greys in it.

I have to disagree on this.  Per FED, to be illegal, the sleeve must BE white or gray.  Simply containing those colors doesn't rise to that level.  You might be thinking about the glove/mitt rule, which states it can't contain any white or gray.

[Jimurray]

I have to disagree on this.  Per FED, to be illegal, the sleeve must BE white or gray.  Simply containing those colors doesn't rise to that level.  You might be thinking about the glove/mitt rule, which states it can't contain any white or gray.

2014 Interps, Sit 17 clarifies that the sleeve may not have white or gray in it. That being said, I have ignored small logos, had the pitcher turn the sleeve inside out, and had the pitcher rub dirt on the log. I start by ignoring.

[JaxRolo]

I have to disagree on this.  Per FED, to be illegal, the sleeve must BE white or gray.  Simply containing those colors doesn't rise to that level.  You might be thinking about the glove/mitt rule, which states it can't contain any white or gray.

I disagree. When you have a black sleeve and a white logo "technically" it's not allowed.

[ElkOil]

I disagree. When you have a black sleeve and a white logo "technically" it's not allowed.

I'm intrigued now.  Tomorrow night, my association has a rules clinic and it's run by a guy who is on the NFHS Rules Committee.  I can't wait.

[DVA7130]

I'm intrigued now.  Tomorrow night, my association has a rules clinic and it's run by a guy who is on the NFHS Rules Committee.  I can't wait.

This year's fed Preseason Guide has a specific example that camo is illegal.

[Cato the Younger]

On January 13, 2016 at 10:47 PM, DVA7130 said:

This year's fed Preseason Guide has a specific example that camo is illegal.

Is that the one produced by referee magazine?