Introducing Umpire-Empire Clinics!

[JaxRolo]

Jax, how many tents can you get in your back yard??

I will just rent out floor space in my spare room. Bathroom use will cost extra!

[Jocko]

Jax, how many tents can you get in your back yard??

I will just rent out floor space in my spare room. Bathroom use will cost extra!

will Momma Rolo be catering? Laundry?

[Thunderheads]

Jax, how many tents can you get in your back yard??

I will just rent out floor space in my spare room. Bathroom use will cost extra!

will Momma Rolo be catering? Laundry?

you two can mess with a thread like no one else! :smachhead:

[JaxRolo]

Jax, how many tents can you get in your back yard??

I will just rent out floor space in my spare room. Bathroom use will cost extra!

will Momma Rolo be catering? Laundry?

you two can mess with a thread like no one else!

Danny fault!

[Jocko]

Danny made me do it :angel4:

[spiritump]

This is not meant to be negative or argumentative, but I see no NFHS qualifications with an otherwise very qualified faculty.

That is what my board would respond.

Larry Sansevere

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The staffs will vary for each clinic. However, what sort of NFHS qualifications are you looking for? The 3 of us have umpired high school baseball. I believe Olindo and Jeff still might.

As Rip Torn would say... "If you can dodge a wrench, you can dodge a ball."

I don't know...maybe mentioning the states the faculty is certified in.

The point being NFHS is mentioned as the first rule set covered, but it doesn't even mention that any faculty member has done high school ball.

If I brought this to my board as a suggestion they'd kick me out of the room because we are an NFHS group.

Larry Sansevere

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they would also kick you out because they think they are the best and have nothing to learn

[hckyosgood30]

Larry,

I understand what you mean, I've dealt with a few associations like the one you've described. I'd just go at it with this is a great local opportunity for our membership. When the board asks about the FED side of the clinic. Simply answer them with yes this is geared towards umpires at all levels and FED rules and rules differences will be covered. FED manual is mostly the same to CCA save a few pages but cage work, handling situations, professionalism are universal tools for any level. That is how I've pitched several different clinic options to my board and at first it is hard they usually will give you the opportunity to tell the membership. Not that they endorse the clinic but that it's an option for their own personal/professional development.

[mstaylor]

To be honest, base mechanics are pushed much less at most clinics. Plate mechanics are the same at any level. The only differences are some rotations.

[dumbdumb]

Larry

You are a good guy and everyone can tell and I am not trying to be negative or argumentative, just honest in my opinion on this one.

However, from the Shore website

We are a very professional organization and adhere STRICTLY to our rules and Constitution.

Your will not be eligible for varsity until you attend the umpire mechanics clinic, work 40+ sub-varsity games over cadet over cadet and two years assigned by the assignor. Earliest year eligible is 4th year.

I consider this a very honest, but not professional (courteous, conscientious and businesslike in the workplace) organization to those who try to join the group with experience, since they totally ignore ones experience and credentials. I think professional is the wrong choice of words from the marketing perspective.

What was done to that AAA, D1 guy was unconscionable (having to wait until the 4th year for varsity) IMHO.

At least those with experience who might transfer into this area through no fault of their own, can consider going elsewhere without wasting time trying to join. Let those with no experience join, so at least those at the varsity level know they have at least 3 years of varsity games before someone else starts getting a slice of the pie. Pretty rough if those trying to get in outnumber those retiring.

Once again, I would imagine there was at least someone in the organization that tried to ask that they wave the requirement for this guy, although it did not work.

This groups arrogance in this area, just gets me going, and I am sure yours is not the only one like this out there. It would be very easy to have tryouts for anyone transferring in who might not measure up in your area, although they were HS in their area, due the higher level of skills in your area.

Once again, I love all your contributions and I am not trying to hurt you or your organization, although I realize my comments probably do hurt and I am truely sorry.

However, this one area of policy really sticks in my craw and burns me up. I am sure as far as the umpiring on the field goes, things are just fine in your group.

[mstaylor]

I have seen groups like Larry's and I dislike the false wait in the name of experience. I'm sorry, if you are a school grad, especially good enough to work professionally, and have D1 experience then you should certainly be able to work varsity baseball. When we have guys transfer in and claim to have varsity or college experience, we embrace them but we do look at them before we cut them loose. We watch them in scrimmages and let them work with some senior guys to decide if they really have ability. As we all know, some groups don't train worth a hoot so we have to confirm. However, if they can work, they will get varsity right off the bat.

[LMSANS]

DD,

Got no problem with you expressing your opinion and I do agree with most of it.

This is one of the major reasons I got myself on the board. We need to get rid of a few dinosaurs before we can make real change.

BTW transfers with HS experience are given credit for that experience. However, V assignments are first given to the umpires that are on the school's list of preferred umpires.

Larry Sansevere

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[JaxRolo]

However, V assignments are first given to the umpires that are on the school's list of preferred umpires.

Larry Sansevere

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Schools get to choose Umpires? wow

Here the School Board contracts with the associations for all the schools and they get what they get. Of course varsity does get the better umpires. But the schools don't get to pick.

[Umpire in Chief]

Also please consider this clinic is not designed for associations but for individuals.

Should an association want to do a private clinic specifically for their members we would look at that and what they are seeking on a case by case basis.

[dumbdumb]

However, V assignments are first given to the umpires that are on the school's list of preferred umpires.

Larry Sansevere

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Schools get to choose Umpires? wow

Here the School Board contracts with the associations for all the schools and they get what they get. Of course varsity does get the better umpires. But the schools don't get to pick.

Coach to umpire--Remember that FPSR call that you made against me, that let that last place chicken poop school program beat our blue ribbon, best in class, program that we run here. Remember when I came out and tried to intimidate you by telling you it was a horse manure call, and you don't know the rules and that you would never work our games again if you didn't change the call (and you kicked me out) so we wouldn't lose and be embarrassed, (even though it was the worst game we played all year) by this chicken poop last place team. It's not about getting it right (which you did) and throwing me out (which others do not), but it's about knowing who I am, and that I get all the close calls and interpretations or else.

Now, do you still want to know why I did not pick you to work our games this year for either of the 2 reasons above and you actually showed me up and did both, although either one by itself would knock you off my list? And guess what, your association let's me do this for either reason or for any reason for that matter (I just don't like the way you look), and you cannot do a thing about it, other than join that other group over 50 miles away. So, how does it feel punk. Do you want to work games for my blue ribbon program that goes to the state each year, and maybe I will put in a good word for you to work the playoffs, except when you make calls against us, or do you want to work that last place loser's program that only wins 1 or 2 games every year, and not get recommended to the state from a blue ribbon, best in class program. Your choice. You go figure it out Einstein.

Sounds like a neat clinic for those who can go Warren. Good luck. I am sure they can learn plenty and work the rules of whatever organization they work for into what they are learning on the field and in the classroom.

[MidAmUmp]

To clear up any confusion the clinics will be covering MLB rules with NCAA & NFHS differences. There are several reasons for this...

First, all rules are based on the MLB rules with the exceptions for safety rules - with few exceptions Interference is Interference, Obstruction is Obstruction, a Balk is a Balk...we'll address the exceptions and the various enforcement differences.

Second, while most umpires use NFHS rules during the high school season there are several other organizations that use MLB, NCAA or a combination of all 3 rule sets. It would be doing a disservice to those who attend our clinics across the US if we simply focused on NFHS rules and then expect umpires to take what they learn at our clinics and work a Legion or a Showcase tournament over the summer playing under MLB or NCAA rules.

Finally, the vast majority of the clinic will be spent on the field learning how to recognize rule infractions, as opposed to sitting in a classroom looking at a book. In the (tentative) itinerary I have written for these clinics we are only spending 2 hours in the classroom discussing rules and a lot of that will be video with an additional at least 7-8 hours on the field working on the 2-umpire system and rule recognition/enforcement.

The 2-Umpire System we will be teaching will be mainly focused on the CCA manual's prescribed mechanics. Again, we will attempt to address if NFHS differs, but the main focus will be CCA because it is a very well organized, explained, common sense approach to the compromises necessary in the 2-umpire system.

Obviously lesson plans can be altered to fit an area's need. But as Warren has already pointed out, these clinics are not designed for associations, unless an association wants to do a private clinic.

To address a clinic staffs NFHS credentials, as I've already stated, the staff of instructors will vary. We're not flying instructors from California to Boston... However, the instructors will be people we know who are capable of teaching. Most will be NCAA D-I, D-II, and current or former professional umpires. Let's be honest, how many people out there are going to attend a nationally advertised clinic run by high school umpires? This statement is not trying to be high handed or arrogant. It's simple business. Are you going to invest money with someone who took a few economics classes, or someone who works for a successful investment firm? All of the instructors we will use will have a high school umpiring background.

Hopefully this clears some things up and answers some questions.

[Guest]

Digressing, this is a concept I'd love to see make its way up here. However, that is highly unlikely to happen due to all the bureaucratic red tape, on top of the fact that anyone who is not a representative of a current professional umpire school (assuming they cleared the tape and got permission to host) would almost certainly have to go through Baseball Canada and then the respective provincial association in order to be recognized and then would likely have to incorporate the existing training cirriculum in order to have success, given that the current training process is for anyone who is not nationally certified, invitation only FWIW, is to pay a registration fee of $45 and then take a one day, 7 hour clinic (6 hours of training). Even our National clinic is light in training...last year's was 8 hours of training spread over two days.

I'd be interested in seeing if this is even possible...

I don't know Canadian law and what might be required in having one up there. But as for Baseball Canada, I don't see why they would have to be involved or have any say. We would provide a clinic and those who are interested pay for themselves.

1) Laws

My expertise is in criminal law and not business law, but I am relatively certain that as an American citizen desiring to create income via their business in Canada, you would have to apply for a work visa, business license or both. While we can bring up certain "big names" to guest speak at events, they are volunteering their services and thus allowed to come through given the standard border crossing practice.

2) B-Can / Provincial body

While they may not have to get involved, the business model of a third party clinic desiring success should definitely seek to achieve their support and endorsement. Otherwise, you will have to sell the clinic based on the argument, why should I pay for you to teach me about umpiring when it will do nothing to further my credentials in an official capacity? All umpire training here is overseen by the provincial governing body and then, if you're good enough, Baseball Canada's national program.

Assuming you were able to put this together logistically, you'd have to look at several other challenges:

1) Credentials of Instructors

No offense to anyone on staff, by the only instructor with experience that would matter to 98% of prospective students is Olindo courtesy of his time in the game. Our respective countries have their respective amateur hierarchies and they don't really align on paper. The only similarity that we can measure with common certainty is established based on the presence of a minor league career. While I'm sure everyone reading this is probably going "oh my God, the Canadian is cutting up D-2 umpires, how dare he?!", we would say the same thing if I asked you to give a critique of umpires in our National program (Level 4/5) by only looking at a summary of some of their highest experiences. I'm willing to bet many of you would balk about myself and several other Canadians coming down to teach a clinic given creds simply listed us as having worked "X number Senior Eliminations, Y Number Junior Eliminations, Z Number of "Major" National tournaments, and the 20XX IBL Playoffs." That's not to say that they wouldn't serve as quality instructors; just that the credentials they possess will not allow instant credibility like having MiLB creds would.

2) Rules

You would have to bring in credible instructors who are familiar with Canadian rules, provincial rules (as necessary), and when they do and don't supersede each other and MLB rules. There's not that many and it's not that hard to grasp if you've "grown up" with it, but to learn it from scratch when your knowledge is built on a completely foreign foundation is extremely intimidating.

3) Mechanics

Same thing with mechanics. We have our own system of mechanics that are already taught during standard training no less. If you wanted to bill the clinic as advanced and offer 3 man mechs training, the point is even more emphasized as our "official" 3 man, for the time being, does not really align with CCA or MiLB.

While I would fully support any credible third party clinic offered by anyone looking to offer supplemental training to what is offered already, it's not just as easy as providing a clinic and allowing those interested to pay for themselves. I'm not trying to discourage you at all from doing this; just trying to very realistically point out the challenges you would face bringing something like this North.

[AZump78]

Wait, wait...They play baseball in Canada???

[JaxRolo]

Wait, wait...They play baseball in Canada???

Not really!

[BRUMP]

Wait, wait...They play baseball in Canada???

[Jocko]

Wait, wait...They play baseball in Canada???

a cheap facsimile thereof......... :TD:

[Typhoon]

I remember that every year Guelph Minor Baseball used to put on a 2 day clinic. Ed Hickox was the head instructor and he would bring a minor league umpire with him. There were also clinicians from Baseball Ontario at the clinic so that it was recognized by the provincial authority, and was considered as a level III clinic. I don't know if Ed donated his time or was paid. It was a great clinic and I certainly learned a lot there. It was held in a large domed structure that was donated by the owner for the weekend. He was on the executive of the local minor ball association. There was about 2 freet of snow on the ground the year I went.

Wait, wait...They play baseball in Canada???

Oh, and by the way didn't Team Canada beat Team USA in the 1999 Pan Am games. :agasp_:

[jmpnjmy]

Snack on that for lunch. :rollinglaugh:

[BRUMP]

Go back to watching curling. Lol

[mstaylor]

Hey, easy on the curling, I like that. :)

[Jocko]

Curling is weird. I can't figure it out.