What is wrong with kids these days?

[MarsOmega]

I want to start off by saying I have never ejected a kid from a baseball game before this season, which is my fourth. I have ejected a men's league player for calling me a MF, but no kids. 

I was working solo at a 12u Little League game last Saturday. The game was going fine until #5 was up to bat in the top of the 4th inning. He checked his swing on the first pitch. I say that he went. Checks his swing at the next pitch. I say he went again. The third pitch comes right down the middle at belt height. I ring him up. He then says the F-word loud enough for me, the catcher the pitcher, and the other team's coaches (in the dugout) to hear. I say "Hey, no, no no. You can't say things like that." The kid ignores me and goes inside the dugout. I approached the head coach for the team and told him that his player was now warned for unsportsmanlike conduct due to his language. The coach says he will talk to his player. Ok great! In the next inning with 2 outs, #5 ends up on third. He attempts to steal home on a past ball when the catcher grabs it, chases him up the baseline back toward third, and gets tagged out. It was pretty close but I saw the glove tag on his chest. I call him out. He then takes his helmet off and slammed it onto the ground. I say "#5 you're gone". I then approached the coach and told him that he was ejected for slamming his equipment after a warning for unsportsmanlike conduct. He told me that I can't talk to his players. I told him that I had no choice. For the entire rest of the game, the kid sat on the bench, harassed me, and encouraged his teammates to do the same. He did not have a parent at the game, so I had no choice but to let him remain on the bench for safety reasons. I shut down numerous players who started to loudly question my calls. And that was the end of that game?

In my Tuesday game, I had to warn another kid for using the F-word after striking out in a 10u game for the SAME LEAGUE! I thankfully didn't have to eject anyone for that game.

Am I doing anything wrong here? I've never had to eject a player before this season and have now had 2 in a week. Any advice would be appreciated because I am a young hothead whose weakest game mechanics are game management.

What do you have here guys?

 

[834k3r]

If the 12U kid would've continued to mouth off, I would have warned the coach and ejected him if he didn't control his player. You're right--the kid has to stay in the dugout, but his continued chirping is not okay.

[BrainFreeze]

It's been a while since I umpired games for U12, but if a 12-year-old drops an F-Bomb loud enough for people to hear, he should be ejected.

[Mudisfun]

First, I would have ejected the player at the 1st instance where it was more than under his breath.

When he went to the getting the bench into it, the coach should have been warned to control his bench/players. If it continued, then the coach should be ejected. He is responsible for the conduct of his team, period.

[flyingron]

I think you handled it fine.    Might have warned the bench if the kid who is not supposed to be participating in anyway is still chirping from the bench.

Don't take this the wrong way, but it's one of my little peeves, and you might not be aware.   The term for when the ball gets away from the catcher is a "passed ball" (not past).

 

[Velho]

14 minutes ago, flyingron said:

The term for when the ball gets away from the catcher is a "passed ball" (not past).

👍

[The Man in Blue]

Coach, #5 was ejected and I understand he can't leave without an adult to take him away from the park.  Since you can't control him on the bench, you are the adult who gets to take him away from the park.  

@MarsOmega, that is a valid question though.  I went several years before ever ejecting anybody, and then ended up with several ejections in about a 4 week span.  I was asking myself if something was wrong with me.  Truth is though, sometimes the baseball gods just $#!+ on you.

[SeeingEyeDog]

@MarsOmega, good management and good ejection, brother. I agree with others who have said you "could" have ejected on the initial F-U since it was described as being so demonstrative but, you're the umpire working the game. I like that you chose a warning there given that it's 12U. You are showing the coaches, the players, the parents and your superiors that you have a willingness to keep kids in the game.

I would ask you to ask yourself the following question...What would a player or coach have to do on YOUR field to get an ejection directly as a result of words and or actions? You don't have to answer that here. That is for you and your local mentors and association leadership to decide. As Harry Callahan said, "A man's GOT to know his limitations..." Your limits are not my limits and vice-versa and of course, remember to never do anything out there that can't be explained to your superiors.

As for the ejected player continuing to harass you after being ejected because he has no adult to remove him from the ballpark, you have options...

1) What you did...

2) Warn the coach that you are making an exception out of a courtesy to the player but, if he says or does anything else for the remainder of the game, you are ejecting the head coach and the two of them can then leave the ballpark. The game will not resume until an adult is on duty in the dugout as the replacement head coach for that game. If no adult steps forward, the game is forfeited and you'll want to call your assignor/association leadership from the parking lot to make your verbal report and then go home and write up a game report, letting your partners review before sending in the final draft.

3) Pause the game, call both coaches in and explain the game is suspended until the ejected player is escorted away from sight and sound of the field. If your game has a time limit, remind them of the time limit and the clock will continue to elapse as they handle that situation and you will be up at your car in the parking lot and when they are ready then can come and get you when the player is gone and you'll be happy to resume the game at that time. If your game doesn't have a time limit, tell them they have 10 minutes to resolve the situation and then you are declaring a forfeit.

4) Not sure if your league/association allows this in this situation...go direct to the forfeit, "Coach, we're done. This game is over by forfeit." Get off the field, make call, go home and write it up. It's 12U baseball. You've already ejected the player and he has continued to harass you. We don't have to accept that kind of abuse...from anyone. If the league/association disagrees with handling it this way, well...take your medicine and if they want to re-instate the game and resume it...fine. The bottom line is...don't get vapor lock and think you "have" to continue to take that abuse because you're worried about the consequences of walking off the field.

Keep up the good work and continue your consistent consistency with all aspects of The Craft. We're with you, brother...

~Dawg

[BigBlue4u]

23 hours ago, MarsOmega said:

He told me that I can't talk to his players. I told him that I had no choice. For the entire rest of the game, the kid sat on the bench, harassed me, and encouraged his teammates to do the same. He did not have a parent at the game, so I had no choice but to let him remain on the bench for safety reasons. I shut down numerous players who started to loudly question my calls. And that was the end of that game?

M.O.  A couple of things.  When a coach tells you can't talk with his players, he is trying to take control of the game away from you.  Your best response:  "Coach, I'll talk with your players anytime I need to."  Second, if the kid continues and encourages his teammates to do the same, this is the message to the coach:  "Coach, this is your warning.  If you can't control your bench, you are going to get ejected for not controlling your team."  If he is the only adult there, it could lead to a forfeit. Tuff luck!  Not your problem.  Just be sure you clearly warn the coach.  I've always used an ejection as a last resort.  But, when a coach tells you, you can't talk to his team, you'll have a pretty good idea of where things are headed.

[SeeingEyeDog]

12 hours ago, BigBlue4u said:

M.O.  A couple of things.  When a coach tells you can't talk with his players, he is trying to take control of the game away from you.  Your best response:  "Coach, I'll talk with your players anytime I need to."  Second, if the kid continues and encourages his teammates to do the same, this is the message to the coach:  "Coach, this is your warning.  If you can't control your bench, you are going to get ejected for not controlling your team."  If he is the only adult there, it could lead to a forfeit. Tuff luck!  Not your problem.  Just be sure you clearly warn the coach.  I've always used an ejection as a last resort.  But, when a coach tells you, you can't talk to his team, you'll have a pretty good idea of where things are headed.

Yup! Yup! Yup! Coaches think they are "protecting their players" when they pull the "...don't talk to my players" bit. It's a power play and yes as BigBlue4u says, they are trying to show up the umpire and show who they think is in charge. It is what it is. Can we control coaches, players...anyone? No. But, we can control our response and the simple and calm, "I'll talk to the players whenever I need to..." If it sets him off and he turns on you? That's on him. That's his choice. Warn and eject as needed...and do not give guys like this a second thought.

~Dawg

[love to ump]

Great responses from the brotherhood!

[dumbdumb]

And another person's view on the subject.

Al Barlick-HOF (1989)-on ejections

Barlick often told his umpires, "Though it's very bad to eject a player when he shouldn't be ejected, it's far worse to keep someone in the game who should be ejected."

 

 

[The Man in Blue]

On 5/24/2024 at 10:40 AM, MarsOmega said:

He told me that I can't talk to his players.

 

I missed that line when I made my initial read.

Coach, I shouldn't have to talk to your players.

[Coach Carl]

I like @SeeingEyeDog advice.  He's given several options that may be more or less effective depending on the assignment and the area you work.  Choose one that you think will work for you and go from there.  Mine might be:  

1.  Coach, the ejected player is continuing to disrupt the game.  If it doesn't stop, you or one of your assistant coaches is going to have to take him out of sight and sound of the game and supervise him elsewhere.

2. If your instructions are not heeded and the Coach is not compliant with your conditions for keeping the game going then call it and and get out of there.

I'd quibble with one term though, "forfeit".  I think in most (all?) cases, an incident that causes the umpire to have to call a game would make it a suspended game that gets referred to the appropriate authority (league board, school association, etc) for a final decision (call it done, replay it from suspension, etc.).  I think in most rule sets that is the rules-based action you can take.  

I'd avoid the word forfeit for another reason.  If the coach thinks you've awarded a victory to the other team, it may inflame him more and your route to the parking lot and out of there may be more like a guantlet than the already difficult path that you'll probably incur.

 

[maven]

On 5/24/2024 at 5:40 PM, flyingron said:

The term for when the ball gets away from the catcher is a "passed ball" (not past).

Well, a passed ball gets past F2, right? 

😵‍💫

[johnnyg08]

What's wrong is that we don't eject more. 

"Stern warnings" do not work. 

Dump 'em. 

 

[johnnyg08]

On 5/24/2024 at 10:40 AM, MarsOmega said:

For the entire rest of the game, the kid sat on the bench, harassed me, and encouraged his teammates to do the same. He did not have a parent at the game, so I had no choice but to let him remain on the bench for safety reasons.

Eject or restrict the coach for failing to control his players. 

Start dumping the other players for unsportsmanlike conduct. 

Keep dumping. 

[Aging_Arbiter]

@MarsOmega I'm not trigger happy, by no means.  But let me give you a different way of looking at this.

 

I have never ejected anyone.  I HAVE merely confirmed THEIR desire to no longer participate in that days contest.

 

[beachump]

I used to work with a guy who, when the bench was getting on him, he would tell the coach, "Coach, I can't really tell who is on me, but if it continues, I'll go down the bench ejecting people until we find out who it is. And, I'm going to start with your clean-up hitter." Not saying that's a proper way to handle it, just thought it was an amusing anecdote.

[maven]

57 minutes ago, beachump said:

I used to work with a guy who, when the bench was getting on him, he would tell the coach, "Coach, I can't really tell who is on me, but if it continues, I'll go down the bench ejecting people until we find out who it is. And, I'm going to start with your clean-up hitter." Not saying that's a proper way to handle it, just thought it was an amusing anecdote.

File that under "wouldn't that be nice/funny/cool," and never think of it again.

Now, coach is responsible for his players' behavior, so if we replace "start with your clean-up hitter" with "start with you," then I have no objection.