Mandatory to Slide?

[xh24]

Does a runner advancing from 1st base to 2nd base have to make an effort to get out of the way of a fielder's throw on a double play attempt? Must they slide or get out of the way or be called for interference? If the runner is within his base path, not waving his arms or hands, not making contact with any fielder or the ball, is it interference if he doesn't make an attempt to get out of the way for the throw from second baseman to first baseman after he is put out via force out at second? 

[Velho]

Specifics depends on ruleset. No level has a mandatory slide rule but the specifics differ from there.

What rules / level are you asking about?

High School is was just recently discussed and is here :

 

[Thunderheads]

As discussed, and as asked for in the forum re: Ask The Umpire ... "please let us know what rule set you're referring to" so we can appropriately answer your question.   HIGH SCHOOL as been noted above by @Velho

[johnnyg08]

8 hours ago, xh24 said:

Does a runner advancing from 1st base to 2nd base have to make an effort to get out of the way of a fielder's throw on a double play attempt? Must they slide or get out of the way or be called for interference? If the runner is within his base path, not waving his arms or hands, not making contact with any fielder or the ball, is it interference if he doesn't make an attempt to get out of the way for the throw from second baseman to first baseman after he is put out via force out at second? 

As others have already noted, this is rule set dependent. 

Assume a legal slide for the response below. 

NCAA is the only rule set that uses the phrase "must slide" in its rule book. 

OBR...a runner can go in standing and that wouldn't be considered willful & deliberate interference

NFHS...the new case play this year states that the runner needs to "veer" or slide.

[MadMax]

2 hours ago, johnnyg08 said:

NCAA is the only rule set that uses the phrase "must slide" in its rule book.

This is stated as a “safety rule”, for all participants. Even if retired by ten feet, if R1 trots in to / thru 2B, a FPSR violation shall be called. It doesn’t matter how ticky-tac ior innocuous it is. The rule is written as veer off or must slide. 

Curiously, MSBL and NABA (the two predominant Adult amateur leagues) use this college FPSRule. Of course, there’s much more emphasis placed on veering off than sliding to/thru the base, but what adult amateur is striving to avoid is the same thing that college ball is – players throwing at each other. 

2 hours ago, johnnyg08 said:

OBR...a runner can go in standing and that wouldn't be considered willful & deliberate interference

Correct. If he slides, it must be a “bonafide” slide, and that is defined in the Rules (thanks Chase Utley!). See, if you (Runner) go in standing, then you are jeopardizing your own damn self on wearing a throw. If you “interfere” with the infielder and prevent a DP being turned, well “that’s baseball”… and you’ll likely be wearing a pitch on your next at-bat. 

The amateur game cannot abide retaliation like this. 

2 hours ago, johnnyg08 said:

NFHS...the new case play this year states that the runner needs to "veer" or slide.

So this now brings it closer to NCAA FPSR, but of course with “Fed language”. 

[johnnyg08]

Correct. These rules need to be in place (and I'm thrilled that the Fed codified it) is that we were getting really close to Fed players dotting R1s that are going in standing to 2B. 

The rule had verbiage in there about sliding, but interpretations were ALL over the place. 

The Fed got this one right. 

[Jimurray]

58 minutes ago, johnnyg08 said:

Correct. These rules need to be in place (and I'm thrilled that the Fed codified it) is that we were getting really close to Fed players dotting R1s that are going in standing to 2B. 

The rule had verbiage in there about sliding, but interpretations were ALL over the place. 

The Fed got this one right. 

Just to be clear, going into 2B standing up would not be a violation if the pivot man has gone to one side or the other and there is no hindrance of the throw.

[Jay R.]

Little League would not be a violation if the runner is running directly toward second base at time of throw.

[834k3r]

1 hour ago, Jimurray said:

Just to be clear, going into 2B standing up would not be a violation if the pivot man has gone to one side or the other and there is no hindrance of the throw.

With all due respect, for FED I read the case play differently. I key on the "must veer away" and in my mind going into the base standing up doesn't satisfy the "veer away" portion of the case play narrative.

[Jimurray]

14 minutes ago, 834k3r said:

With all due respect, for FED I read the case play differently. I key on the "must veer away" and in my mind going into the base standing up doesn't satisfy the "veer away" portion of the case play narrative.

You also must “key” on “if the fielder is there attempting a play”

[Velho]

28 minutes ago, Jay R. said:

Little League would not be a violation if the runner is running directly toward second base at time of throw.

Yep. Because 12 year old and 32 year olds should play by the same rules 😉

[BLWizzRanger]

Yep. Because 12 year old and 32 year olds should play by the same rules 

Sorry to sidetrack, but in a 13U game, I called FPSR on a kid (a couple actually on the same team. Looked like they were taught to come in standing up since they all did it) and I hear from the stands.... "come on... this isnt Major League Baseball!" It took all that I had not to holler back.. "Exactly!"

Sent from my SM-F721U1 using Tapatalk

[BigBlue4u]

3 hours ago, 834k3r said:

With all due respect, for FED I read the case play differently. I key on the "must veer away" and in my mind going into the base standing up doesn't satisfy the "veer away" portion of the case play narrative.

Also, keep in mind that we are not going to call a runner out on a FPSR violation going into a base standing up if he is not in the vicinity (umpire judgment) of the base.

[834k3r]

Just now, BigBlue4u said:

Also, keep in mind that we are not going to call a runner out on a FPSR violation going into a base standing up if he is not in the vicinity (umpire judgment) of the base.

100%.

3 hours ago, Jimurray said:

You also must “key” on “if the fielder is there attempting a play”

I thought we were only discussing this with the assumption the fielder was making a play. My fault for not clarifying.

[SeeingEyeDog]

I hope I am not re-litigating this entire rule but, I would also like to add to this discussion:

A pop-up slide that causes the runner to make contact with the fielder is a violation of FPSR.

~Dawg

[Kevin_K]

3 hours ago, SeeingEyeDog said:

A pop-up slide that causes the runner to make contact with the fielder is a violation of FPSR.

 

This is accurate in FED but not in NCAA or OBR. 

[noumpere]

18 hours ago, 834k3r said:

With all due respect, for FED I read the case play differently. I key on the "must veer away" and in my mind going into the base standing up doesn't satisfy the "veer away" portion of the case play narrative.

It's "veer away from the fielder" not "veer away from the base" -- and if the fielder moves toward RF, then going straight toward second is "Veering away fro m the fielder."

 

There 's some annual interp (I think) to this effect.

[johnnyg08]

If they're within sliding distance, slide into the base legally or veer away from the base. The case play is quite clear.

Don't go in standing. They're not going to like what happens. 

It's important that this gets called and enforced as such. 

 

[johnnyg08]

On 3/6/2024 at 7:12 AM, noumpere said:

It's "veer away from the fielder" not "veer away from the base" -- and if the fielder moves toward RF, then going straight toward second is "Veering away fro m the fielder."

The case play reads to "veer away from the base" because that's the subject of the case play. 

There's another rule in place that deals with veering into the fielder. 

But yes, they should do both.