Extra inning game rule for NFHS

[catsbackr]

I'm surprised that the NFHS hasn't adopted the MLB protocol for putting a runner on 2B in extra inning games.  

 

For @lawump, has there been any discussion to changing this?

[Senor Azul]

FED rule 4-2-4 states the following:

A state association may adopt game-ending procedures that determine how games are ended, including suspended games...

Wouldn't that apply to this situation of a tie and extra innings also? If so, then it is up to each individual state association to adopt the MLB protocol.

[Thatsnotyou]

Regular season games should end in ties. But yes, “just keep playing until the sun goes down” isn’t fun. 

[catsbackr]

5 hours ago, Senor Azul said:

FED rule 4-2-4 states the following:

A state association may adopt game-ending procedures that determine how games are ended, including suspended games...

Wouldn't that apply to this situation of a tie and extra innings also? If so, then it is up to each individual state association to adopt the MLB protocol.

Why leave it up to the states?  Why not just make it a rule change for all NFHS schools?

[noumpere]

31 minutes ago, catsbackr said:

Why leave it up to the states?  Why not just make it a rule change for all NFHS schools?

The rule is mostly (and maybe exclusively) meant for games that are stopped because of weather or darkness.  Some states want to resume no matter what.  Some want to end no matter what.  Some want to continue if it's less than 5 innings, but call the game if its 5 innings or more.  Some want one rule for weather and another for darkness.  Some want to resume conference / district games, but not non-conference games.

 

That said, I think the NFHS would consider a rule having a runner at second in extra innings.  There's a process to submit a rule change proposal.  You should use it.  Seriously.

[SeeingEyeDog]

Either that...or restructure umpire contracts to reflect additional pay for extra inning games. There's always hope. Don't take away my hope, please...

~Dawg

[noumpere]

8 hours ago, SeeingEyeDog said:

Either that...or restructure umpire contracts to reflect additional pay for extra inning games. There's always hope. Don't take away my hope, please...

~Dawg

Then we'd get less for 5-inning or 3-inning or one-pitch games.

[BigBlue4u]

19 hours ago, noumpere said:

There's a process to submit a rule change proposal.  You should use it.  Seriously.

As a public service:  nfhs.org/rulechangeproposal

[catsbackr]

I appreciate the public service, but your link is for CHANGING an existing rule. 

 

It's actually titled "Rule Change Proposal."

[JSam21]

On 12/26/2023 at 7:31 PM, catsbackr said:

Why leave it up to the states?  Why not just make it a rule change for all NFHS schools?

Because that's what NFHS wants. They don't want to be the end all be all when it comes to the rules. That's why people who work in multiple states get to have a fun time going back and forth between the states and their various interps.

[Senor Azul]

A list of rules by state association adoption appears on page 67 of the 2023 NFHS baseball rule book. Currently there are nine such rules giving individual members the right to choose how to handle certain issues. Here are those nine:

1-2-9  double first base 

1-4-4  commemorative patches 

2-33-1  speed-up rules 

4-2-2  run rules 

4-2-4  game-ending procedures 

4-3-1  tie game

4-4-1a  time frame for forfeits

4-5-1  protests permitted or not 

10-1-9  umpire navy blue jersey 

I think we all would agree that the NFHS should not issue unfunded mandated rules. But these rules don't seem to be costly to adopt so the rationale for delegating these rules is probably just as Mr. noumpere suggests in an earlier post.

 

[Kevin_K]

On 12/27/2023 at 6:54 PM, catsbackr said:

I appreciate the public service, but your link is for CHANGING an existing rule. 

 

It's actually titled "Rule Change Proposal."

Can you explain how such a proposal would not be changing an existing rule? Wherever any addition may be inserted it would change the existing rule. No?

[catsbackr]

Ok, this would not be a rule CHANGE. 

 

It doesn't currently exist, so, it would actually be a rule ADDITION or a new rule.

[SeeingEyeDog]

On 12/27/2023 at 7:01 AM, noumpere said:

Then we'd get less for 5-inning or 3-inning or one-pitch games.

Perhaps...not in my market. Life is what you can negotiate. I of course meant incrementally...

~Dawg

[noumpere]

8 hours ago, catsbackr said:

Ok, this would not be a rule CHANGE. 

 

It doesn't currently exist, so, it would actually be a rule ADDITION or a new rule.

Maybe you should submit a change request to change the name of the Rule Change Proposal form.

[boyinr]

Because these are the same people that still have navy shirts as the prescribed color. There’s got to be something in the water. 

[Catch18]

Either that...or restructure umpire contracts to reflect additional pay for extra inning games. There's always hope. Don't take away my hope, please...
~Dawg

I wouldn’t make a beef of extra inning pay.

I’d hate to look down at my assignments and see 20% reduced because of a run rule. An administrator out there will think it goes both ways.

[Richvee]

On 12/27/2023 at 7:01 AM, noumpere said:

Then we'd get less for 5-inning or 3-inning or one-pitch games.

My first thought. …. And we would lose. I’ve had way more mercy games than extra innings. And on my minority opinion, I enjoy extras. Means we’ve got a good game. 

[beerguy55]

13 hours ago, Richvee said:

 And on my minority opinion, I enjoy extras. Means we’ve got a good game. 

The tournament volunteers who want to go home don't like extra innings.   But really, the time saving from the runner on second is just a side benefit.

This is about saving arms. That's why they did it in MLB, and I see no reason not to do it in any amateur level of ball. 

 

[834k3r]

14 hours ago, Richvee said:

My first thought. …. And we would lose. I’ve had way more mercy games than extra innings. And on my minority opinion, I enjoy extras. Means we’ve got a good game. 

I'm the same, but there was a game last summer (19U Legion) I was glad I wasn't on:  game ended in the bottom of the 15th. Game started at 10am in the middle of July (temperature at first pitch was in the mid-90s) on turf.

[Richvee]

24 minutes ago, 834k3r said:

I'm the same, but there was a game last summer (19U Legion) I was glad I wasn't on:  game ended in the bottom of the 15th. Game started at 10am in the middle of July (temperature at first pitch was in the mid-90s) on turf.

There's always outliers. I've done mercy games that were great for 5 1/2 innings and then the wheels fall off a team. 

[Richvee]

1 hour ago, beerguy55 said:

The tournament volunteers who want to go home don't like extra innings.   But really, the time saving from the runner on second is just a side benefit.

This is about saving arms. That's why they did it in MLB, and I see no reason not to do it in any amateur level of ball. 

 

Don't take my comment out of context. You snipped a sentence from my post replying to a comment about getting extra pay for extra innings. I rendered no opinion on ghost runners. 

[beerguy55]

3 hours ago, Richvee said:

Don't take my comment out of context. You snipped a sentence from my post replying to a comment about getting extra pay for extra innings. I rendered no opinion on ghost runners. 

My reply was more about extra innings in general...as much as you and I enjoy them from a game appreciation perspective, there are some people that just want to go home. (and some of them are umpires)

In context, the decision about ghost runners is more about saving pitchers than time....but time is a happy benefit....for those who just want to go home.

[SeeingEyeDog]

On 12/27/2023 at 6:54 PM, catsbackr said:

I appreciate the public service, but your link is for CHANGING an existing rule. 

 

It's actually titled "Rule Change Proposal."

The link @BigBlue4u posted is very thorough. It allows users to make suggestions for modifications, deletions, and or additions to existing rules with fields for users to populate with existing rule citations and or fields for users to simply make a freeform submission with a separate field for rationale. I don't know how seriously submissions are taken and if a submission there could lead to a rule modification or change but, they are at least giving users the impression they are open to feedback.

~Dawg

[The Man in Blue]

On 1/2/2024 at 11:35 AM, Richvee said:

Don't take my comment out of context. You snipped a sentence from my post replying to a comment about getting extra pay for extra innings. I rendered no opinion on ghost runners.