Tennessee-Clemson FPSR? Ejection?

[Jimurray]

Baseball fans blast ‘ridiculous’ ejection in college game (msn.com)

Did U2 no call a FPSR violation in 13th inning Saturday Regional? Was Clemson CF ejected for castigating Tennessee R1?

[Velho]

45 minutes ago, Jimurray said:

Did U2 no call a FPSR violation in 13th inning Saturday Regional?

They completed the double play so there isn't violation to call, right?

We don't know what was said obviously but if it itself didn't warrant an ejection, the announcers (eventually) properly took blame off the ump: "I blame the rulebook"

[Velho]

Saw replay coverage on ESPN and googled a bit. Found this added context:

“The explanation was there was already a warning issued earlier in the game for some jawing back and forth,” Clemson coach Erik Bakich said. “I didn’t notice that."

https://www.greenvilleonline.com/story/sports/college/clemson/2023/06/03/clemson-baseball-tennessee-ejection-ncaa-regional/70276115007/#

ESPN commentator also said NCAA ejections are doubled 2023 (>600qty) over 2022 (309qty) and we have "soul searching to do" because that's a problem. Didn't address the number of confrontations / incidents / brawls, etc. - which is why they are clamping down in the first place. 

 

[Jimurray]

55 minutes ago, Velho said:

They completed the double play so there isn't violation to call, right?

We don't know what was said obviously but if it itself didn't warrant an ejection, the announcers (eventually) properly took blame off the ump: "I blame the rulebook"

I know in high school we call the violation without reference to the DP outcome. I have succumbed to a no call once or twice when the violation was minor and the DP was completed so quickly that I didn't process that quick.

[dumbdumb]

12:50-13:20. watch the whole 30 seconds.

 

 

[Jimurray]

4 minutes ago, dumbdumb said:

12:50-13:20. watch the whole 30 seconds.

 

 

Looks like the slide was direct on the baseline but about 3 feet short. The SS stepped out of the lane but his throwing arm was in the lane. Did R1 slide to avoid the throw or to hinder the SS. Did the centerfielder see R1's left arm try to hook the SS. Need another angle.

[dumbdumb]

@Jimurray

asketh and you shall receiveth, or, so let it be written, so let it be done. start at 7:00 minute mark

 

[Jimurray]

22 minutes ago, dumbdumb said:

@Jimurray

asketh and you shall receiveth, or, so let it be written, so let it be done. start at 7:00 minute mark

 

Thanks, there is nothing to call or get upset about on that play. So whatever was said must have been unsportsmanlike. 

[SeeingEyeDog]

....just wanted to use this as a mechanical reminder that in 2-man, plate should be coming up on the 3rd base side of the mound to watch for FPSR at 2B because U1 may have to take the turn. Either umpire can make the FPSR call, but plate might see something after the turn that U1 doesn't. Plate might even see malicious contact or any number of things after the turn that U1 doesn't. Additionally, if the play into 2B is busted and R1 is safe and tries for 3B, this becomes a rotation because plate is in a better position to take R1 into 3B. Further, a busted play on R1 safe into 3B might mean a play at the plate so, plate...be on your horse here ready for extra action.

~Dawg

[umpstu]

4 hours ago, Velho said:

They completed the double play so there isn't violation to call, right?

We don't know what was said obviously but if it itself didn't warrant an ejection, the announcers (eventually) properly took blame off the ump: "I blame the rulebook"

Don't think the outcome of the double play has anything to do with the non call.  More likely there was nothing to call.

[Richvee]

8 hours ago, Velho said:

ESPN commentator also said NCAA ejections are doubled 2023 (>600qty) over 2022 (309qty) and we have "soul searching to do" because that's a problem. Didn't address the number of confrontations / incidents / brawls, etc. - which is why they are clamping down in the first place. 

 

I was watching squeeze play and the guys were talking about the double EJ rate. They’re point was something had to be changed, , because it doesn’t seem like the kids are getting the message about how to act. 
 

My thought was it’s the first year of the crackdown on celebratory acts, props, bat flips, etc. Give it another year or two to see if they’re getting the message.   

[The Man in Blue]

Agree with @Richvee ... when you clamp down and say "this is now automatic" when there was discretion before, the problems aren't increasing.  The penalty has been mandated and the issues are now being formally recognized.  It isn't the umpires or the players.

On the lesser side of unintended consequences ... I saw a player this weekend with eye black on the left side of his face, but not the right side.  Curiosity finally got the better of me, so I asked why.  Another umpire had recently told him he could only have a single stripe of eye black.  😊

(No, not a requirement or a rule ... just a needless discussion that is happening.  No need to point that out.)

[SeeingEyeDog]

On another thread, there was discussion about enforcement of rules during the regular season versus enforcement in the playoffs. In that vein, do we need more uniformity of behavior enforcement from LL through HS baseball so that when guys go to college they "know how to act" on a baseball field? Obviously, we're enforcing differently on an 8U tballer than an 18U Travel or Legion player...

When I was coaching youth ball a few years back, a number of HS coaches came to talk with us. One of them started an excellent presentation with, "I, and I hope the other coaches, are here today because we are seeing too many players at the HS level who are sustaining serious injuries because their bodies have not been prepared to play HS baseball. We're not going to eliminate these injuries but, I think they can be reduced and here's how..." and he then talked specifically about drills that isolate the various movements associated with the throwing motion so that we are working collectively to teach good throwing mechanics while they are young.

Managing the overall situation from the ground up, rather than waiting until the player has ascended to a level before realizing their fundamentals (or in this case knowledge of how to act...) have a lot of catching up to do...

~Dawg

[Chris Hickman]

When the out was recorded @ 2nd R1 was not in the vicinity of the bag so you cannot have FPSR……doesn’t look like anything anyway…

[Catch18]

I was watching squeeze play and the guys were talking about the double EJ rate. They’re point was something had to be changed, , because it doesn’t seem like the kids are getting the message about how to act. 
 
My thought was it’s the first year of the crackdown on celebratory acts, props, bat flips, etc. Give it another year or two to see if they’re getting the message.   

Exactly. The men don’t know how to act. Saw a WCWS game yesterday and one of the gals from Stanford was wearing some stripped top hat, and after teammate jacked one, they were out at the plate and one of the gals drops a pink cowboy hat….not sure what they were using it for.

Props don’t seem to be a problem with the ladies as they can probably handle themselves, and their womanhood isn’t being challenged/dissolved by an opponent.

If the women were clearing benches, SH*# talking (some prob happens, but not as bad as the dudes), etc. then the props would be done away in fast pitch or we’d see a huge amt of EJs.

[Richvee]

8 hours ago, Catch18 said:

Exactly. The men don’t know how to act. Saw a WCWS game yesterday and one of the gals from Stanford was wearing some stripped top hat, and after teammate jacked one, they were out at the plate and one of the gals drops a pink cowboy hat….not sure what they were using it for.

Props don’t seem to be a problem with the ladies as they can probably handle themselves, and their womanhood isn’t being challenged/dissolved by an opponent.

If the women were clearing benches, SH*# talking (some prob happens, but not as bad as the dudes), etc. then the props would be done away in fast pitch or we’d see a huge amt of EJs.

The whole thing is such a strange phenomena to me. These guys have no problem dishing it out, playing Mr. tough guy, but as soon as they're on the receiving end, they act like a bunch of babies and get offended and bent out of shape to the point where they want to fight.  

Then there's the whole over the top "primal scream at the top of your lungs doing your best incredible Hulk flex impersonation"...WTH is that all about anyway? I'm sorry, that's not normal adrenalin emotion.  That's borderline deranged behavior. Personally, if it was me playing, and I saw an opponent act like that after striking someone out, or making a play, I don't think I'd be mad or insulted. My reaction would be "WTH is wrong with you, bro?" 

..Or maybe I'm just the old "get off my lawn" old man.  

[JonnyCat]

54 minutes ago, Richvee said:

..Or maybe I'm just the old "get off my lawn" old man.

That's me.

[beerguy55]

17 hours ago, Richvee said:

These guys have no problem dishing it out, playing Mr. tough guy, but as soon as they're on the receiving end, they act like a bunch of babies and get offended and bent out of shape to the point where they want to fight. 

This is Josh Donaldson syndrome.  The guy makes a federal case out of any pitch in the same zip code as his head.

[wolfe_man]

On 6/6/2023 at 11:17 PM, Richvee said:

The whole thing is such a strange phenomena to me. These guys have no problem dishing it out, playing Mr. tough guy, but as soon as they're on the receiving end, they act like a bunch of babies and get offended and bent out of shape to the point where they want to fight.  

Then there's the whole over the top "primal scream at the top of your lungs doing your best incredible Hulk flex impersonation"...WTH is that all about anyway? I'm sorry, that's not normal adrenalin emotion.  That's borderline deranged behavior. Personally, if it was me playing, and I saw an opponent act like that after striking someone out, or making a play, I don't think I'd be mad or insulted. My reaction would be "WTH is wrong with you, bro?" 

..Or maybe I'm just the old "get off my lawn" old man.  

The problem is men aren't men anymore.  There I said it.

 

[JonnyCat]

People on the baseball field, and in life, act like that for a reason. There's a great scene in the Australian series that was on FX, "Mr InBetween". It goes something like this.

Therapist: "The world is full of assholes, Ray. You do know that?"

Ray: "Yeah, and you know why?"

Therapist: "Why?"

Ray: "Because people let them get away with it."

[zoops]

On 6/8/2023 at 9:55 AM, JonnyCat said:

People on the baseball field, and in life, act like that for a reason. There's a great scene in the Australian series that was on FX, "Mr InBetween". It goes something like this.

Therapist: "The world is full of assholes, Ray. You do know that?"

Ray: "Yeah, and you know why?"

Therapist: "Why?"

Ray: "Because people let them get away with it."

As a teacher, this one really spoke to me!  We let people get away with such ridiculous behavior anymore and try to come up with 10,000 reasons for it other than personal responsibility.  

[JonnyCat]

22 minutes ago, zoops said:

As a teacher, this one really spoke to me!  We let people get away with such ridiculous behavior anymore and try to come up with 10,000 reasons for it other than personal responsibility.  

Agree 100%!

[JonnyCat]

 

[The Man in Blue]

4 hours ago, zoops said:

As a teacher, this one really spoke to me!  We let people get away with such ridiculous behavior anymore and try to come up with 10,000 reasons for it other than personal responsibility.  

This.  I did a mid-life career change to teaching and have worked in two rough, inner-city schools in large crappy districts.  Both schools had/have very weak disciplinary practices.

The kids are the way they are because the adults in the building (maybe this building, maybe the previous building) taught them to be that way.  The adults are that way because nobody held them accountable.

[The Man in Blue]

Another funny tangent … the NCAA Softball world is melting down over the “celebrations” of Oklahoma, such as spiking their bats on walks and going ballistic on routine plays.