Firearms in the dugout

[BDad]

LL Tournament game. Disclaimer: I wasn't there. My partner last night was working a game a few days ago and saw a concealed handgun on a coach in the dugout. Without making a scene, he and his partner asked the TD for help, and she asked the coach to remove it because it's not allowed under LL rules (Regulation XIV(e)). He locked it up in his truck, came back to the dugout, started arguing with the umpires about it, and ejected himself. Luckily, no further incident.

Like I said, I wasn't there, and not implying any judgment or politics, but I started thinking about how I would handle that situation. Obviously, the situation could be tense in certain contexts. Has anyone encountered a situation like this? What did/didn't go well about how you handled it? What would you do if the game were on a school or park property that prohibits firearms by law? 

[Catch18]

In Ohio, the Supreme Court ruled a number of years ago that public park systems couldn’t ban firearms/ccw because it’s a public space, and not subject to prohibitions like schools, police departments, gov’t buildings.

That could be affected by, let’s say, your local little league. They would technically be a permit holder (such as, the entity allowed to utilize the public space), and they could possibly make that a ban if they wanted to. Also, they’d likely be bound by any Association rules (LL, NFHS, American Legion, etc).

I am not an attorney.

[cjroman]

If he saw it, it wasn't concealed 🙂...LL rules state no firearms or ammo on the field. Don't know about any other leagues/codes.

 

[BDad]

31 minutes ago, cjroman said:

If he saw it, it wasn't concealed 🙂...LL rules state no firearms or ammo on the field. Don't know about any other leagues/codes.

 

Yeah, coach bent over to help a kid with something and it was visible. Let's give benefit of the doubt as far as proper permitting/carrying or whatever. I'm wondering what others have done to enforce the rules without escalating unnecessarily.

LL Regulation XIV(e): The possession and/or use of firearms, tobacco products, cigarettes (including e-cigarettes and vapors), controlled substances, and alcoholic beverages in any form is prohibited on the playing field, benches, or dugouts. Alcohol is prohibited at the game site.

Nothing about ammo per se, but possession of firearms is prohibited.

[BLWizzRanger]

If someone is using a firearm at a game, you have bigger problems than LL Regulation XIV(e). Just saying....

[dumbdumb]

and if i was TD, the moment he came back and started arguing with you, i would have ejected him as the TD and left the umpires out of it, even if the issue was a non gun issue.

[HokieUmp]

Noted anti-gun person here.

Despite living in Texas, and despite a career history devoid of Constitutional law dealings, it wouldn't matter much to me if it were LL, Pony, house league, or any flavour of travel/other ball.  Were I to see said weapon, or be told about it by a partner, the game would cease until it was removed from the premises.  If not, the game would be suspended - due to a lack of an umpire, if nothing else, because I'd be out at that point.

[flyingron]

The municipality can't ban concealed carry from the park but the league almost certainly can ban them from participation in the game.   The concealed carry law doesn't preempt the rules of the game.

 

[ArchAngel72]

Pro 2a fella here..

 

I understand LL's rules and no I do not carry umpiring.

 

I would not tell a fan outside in the stands they had to leave. But yes I would tell a coach its in the rule book and he must abide by it or not be here. I would also ask him not to make an ass out of himself because being here for his kid/s > him making a political stand at that time.

 

Then again I also feel by purposely making gun free zones you just paint a target on everyone there that states "yep I am disarmed" 

Anywho.. Sad that that coach decided to do what he did by getting himself EJ..

 

[Thatsnotyou]

On 6/22/2022 at 10:06 AM, HokieUmp said:

Noted anti-gun person here.

Despite living in Texas, and despite a career history devoid of Constitutional law dealings, it wouldn't matter much to me if it were LL, Pony, house league, or any flavour of travel/other ball.  Were I to see said weapon, or be told about it by a partner, the game would cease until it was removed from the premises.  If not, the game would be suspended - due to a lack of an umpire, if nothing else, because I'd be out at that point.

Agreed. The gun is anywhere on the field or in the dugout, I’m uncomfortable and either it goes to the car or I’m out. I don’t care if there is a law protecting it or technically no “baseball” rule against it. 

[SeeingEyeDog]

I think the Earp brothers would have been a fantastic crew of umpires. They totaled 6 so, perhaps they had the potential to work any level. Here's a line from "Tombstone" that could have been re-worked to address the OP's concern:

~Dawg

[Mudisfun]

Living in So Cal, which is not exactly the friendliest of 2A states, this would have ended in a completely different manner.

TD would 100% call the PD. The PD would respond in force and the coach, with or without a CCW would in all likelihood be eating infield dirt while face down at multiple gun point and being cuffed. Regardless is the coach then proved to have a CCW or even be an off duty LEO, he would be ejected for violating this LL rules provision. Being this is All Star season, our DA would also yank this person off the coaching staff, ASAP, regardless for this breach of the rules.

 

 

[beerguy55]

Isn't the proper solution to make sure everyone on the field has their own gun?

 

[JonnyCat]

32 minutes ago, beerguy55 said:

Isn't the proper solution to make sure everyone on the field has their own gun?

 

Yes.

[The Man in Blue]

Since NFHS now allows jewelry ... maybe the gun is just for show.  🙄

[JonnyCat]

33 minutes ago, The Man in Blue said:

Since NFHS now allows jewelry ... maybe the gun is just for show.  🙄

Gangsta Bling!

[cyclonehokiece]

On 6/21/2022 at 9:45 PM, cjroman said:

If he saw it, it wasn't concealed 🙂...LL rules state no firearms or ammo on the field. Don't know about any other leagues/codes.

 

Exactly, that's not a concealed weapon.  The only time I should see it is if you intend on using it for a legal purpose.

I don't think other leagues have been forced to address this because it hasn't been an issue.  However, in current society, this may change.

[The Man in Blue]

@cyclonehokiece makes a good point.  I don't ever want to hear you guys complaining about wildlife taking up residence on the field again!  No more harping on hares, dissing on ducks, or grousing about geese.  Don't despair about deer delaying deep in the outfield.

I mean, the gun is, you know, "just in case".  Right?