Mask upgrade

[Sw-ump]

As of right now I have the cheap champro mask with stock padding and am looking to upgrade as I’m doing higher level games now. Would it make sense to get a more expensive frame or to put decent pads onto my champro frame. Any suggestions?

 

Edit: I have been eyeing the Wilson dyna-lite and the Allstar system 7 mask but do have the concern that the system 7 is supposed to be worn with a skullcap. 

[conbo61]

Your mask and chest protector are the two most important pieces of equipment.  You will find MANY opinions on these boards at to the ideal rig.

My point? Don't skimp on your mask.  The couple of bucks you save could end up being put towards an emergency room co-pay.  The first hard shot you take with a good mask/pad combo you will realize that the investment was worth it.

For what it is worth, I use a Dyna-Lite Steel with Team Wendy pads.  I also have a traditional Force 3 I plan to use this season.

Once again, there will be no shortage of opinions here.

Good luck and congrats on moving to higher level ball!

[Thunderheads]

@conbo61 nails this here ......... I concur.

That being said, please go to this forum, upper right corner and search for "mask recommendation" ...it comes up with 237 posts.  Not all of them are exactly what you're looking for, but there's enough info here for you to read about masks for days and days!    

 

I did the search here, and I copied the link for you, I hope it works.  If it doesn't work, let me know ....

https://umpire-empire.com/search/?&q=mask recommendation&type=forums_topic&nodes=9&search_and_or=or&sortby=relevancy

PLEASE .... DON'T take this post as negative!  I'm trying to help!  Trust me (people will vouch for me) ...there's SO MUCH information on this site, I'm sure you'll get an answer somewhere.    If you don't find your answer, or you need help on a decision between 2 masks, or pads, .... let us know! Good luck! 

[ArchAngel72]

I started with a cheap champro mask used it a full season no issues.

Season 2 got hit with a 12 yr olds fast ball full on no tip just really short catcher and he was not quick enough to grab it on a taller hitter

rung my bell good.

 

upgrade pads if you can and or look at the different posts and etc on mask reviews, see if you can actually try on some at some of the stores and or booths if you see a vendor at a training.  etc etc.  ( I know covid times thats much tougher)

 

Anyway What Thunder said..

 

[ATXBlue]

@Thunderheads is right. Some of that search may help, some may not.

I would suggest trying to read as much as possible and then if you can have the money out of your account for a bit, order multiple masks from Ump-Attire and try them on then send the ones you don't want back with their free returns policy. With no vendors around me and covid keeping us from having chapter/state meetings, the ability to order/try on/ send back equipment if it didn't work out has been huge for me this year. 

 

[SeeingEyeDog]

I agree with @conbo61. Put all you can into your chest protector and mask. If you're working your way up as a new umpire, make sure as you are assigned games with older and more talented players, your plate gear should meet those demands. Obviously, acquiring the best gear now could set you up for several years to come as you advance. Gear is a very personal choice. If it wasn't, we'd all be wearing the same exact stuff.

Opinions about gear are just that. What works best for those 200 hundred umpires over there may not be best for you. Read, watch video reviews of gear, talk to your fellow umpires and acquire all the knowledge you can. Ultimately, it comes down to protection, comfort and price.

As with mechanics and rule study, we as umpires must always be in a state of improving ourselves. This includes checking your gear frequently for possible repairs, improvements or replacements and being aware of gear innovations going on in the umpiring world. You'll go broke buying EVERY innovation so, analyze and choose wisely.

As to your question, the Wilson Dyna-Lite steel would be a fine choice assuming you like the way it fits and it meets your budget. Don't forget there's lots of great used gear out there and you could also sell your Champro mask to help defray some of the cost of your next mask. Or...keep the Champro as a backup.

~Dawg

[Thunderheads]

@MadMax would say is ....  "it's all about the pads" ...so .... replace your pads w/ Team Wendy pads, keep your mask and you're good to go!  

[boyinr]

Your mask is important but, the mask is a system comprised of three (or four, if you have an additional TG) parts.  The most important part of the mask system is the pads.  The frame stops the ball from impacting your face, the pads are what absorb the energy in the collision.  Your existing frame is not a problem and you could continue to use it with better pads IMO.  I'd toss some Team Wendys or All Star LUC's and keep rolling for the time being.  That is unless you want a new mask.  But, be aware, buying a new mask may not get you out of replacing the pads anyway.      

[Sw-ump]

27 minutes ago, Thunderheads said:

@MadMax would say is ....  "it's all about the pads" ...so .... replace your pads w/ Team Wendy pads, keep your mask and you're good to go!  

His comments on that would be where I got the idea of replacing pads over upgrading, just wanted to get some other opinions 

[Thunderheads]

17 minutes ago, Sw-ump said:

His comments on that would be where I got the idea of replacing pads over upgrading, just wanted to get some other opinions 

great, ...you're getting some good guidance here, and that search link should help too.   You can also search by using "mask pads"  or "mask pad replacement"  

[Mr Ump]

I am a mask junkie and generally roll to a game with 4 mask in my bag. I don’t know anyone with a Champro that has not got their bell rung. I took my son’s from him and simply gave him one of my Wilson Dynalites. With that said install Team Wendy pads on whatever mask you settle on. Also get a good harness to steady your mask. I recommend Ray Brownlee’s Ump life harness. Other recommendations include the Colbalt All Star CP with Ray’s CP harness asWell.

Do not skimp on mask and chest protector. After doing all that grab some Force 3 shin guards...you can thank me later...lol.

[conbo61]

On 4/16/2021 at 2:19 AM, Sw-ump said:

As of right now I have the cheap champro mask with stock padding and am looking to upgrade as I’m doing higher level games now. Would it make sense to get a more expensive frame or to put decent pads onto my champro frame. Any suggestions?

 

Edit: I have been eyeing the Wilson dyna-lite and the Allstar system 7 mask but do have the concern that the system 7 is supposed to be worn with a skullcap. 

One option is to upgrade the pads now.  If you choose to get a new frame later in the season, you can easily switch the pads to the new mask.

No rule that you have to do it all at once.

[Sw-ump]

Will probably go with a Wilson dyna-lite and some tw pads. Will a 6 stitch cap fit under it? 

[BT_Blue]

2 minutes ago, Sw-ump said:

Will probably go with a Wilson dyna-lite and some tw pads. Will a 6 stitch cap fit under it? 

Yes it will.

[GreyhoundAggie]

Does anyone have opinions on TW pads vs the Wilson Wrap arounds or doeskins? I've worn leather pads for years and I haven't looked at the TW pads in 5-6 years. Debating which way to go for replacing my Honig's Doeskins.

Took a couple of shots this year that have rung me and I think my old pads are just done for.

Read up on the prior forum post but some of them are stale.

[wolfe_man]

2 hours ago, GreyhoundAggie said:

Does anyone have opinions on TW pads vs the Wilson Wrap arounds or doeskins? I've worn leather pads for years and I haven't looked at the TW pads in 5-6 years. Debating which way to go for replacing my Honig's Doeskins.

Took a couple of shots this year that have rung me and I think my old pads are just done for.

Read up on the prior forum post but some of them are stale.

I prefer the new All Star MAG pads on all of my masks now.    The TW's are rock-hard in cold weather and leather gets hot in warmer weather, the MAG pads are good in all weather types, won't stick to the stubble on your face and are very comfortable.  You can get them for $44.99 + S&H from All Star directly in all colors (Tip: you may have to check under catcher's accessories for colors other than black, deerskin or grey).

Wilson's pads are all pretty good, but some of their top pads are gigantic.  It's not a bad thing, but makes the mask sit funny on my head as I don't like to curl the bills on my hat.  The huge top pad pushes the frame up higher than I'd like, but this - and pads in general - is a personal thing.  

The main thing is that your pads don't compress too much when you squeeze them that you feel the frame.  If you can feel the frame when you compress them, then get something else that won't do that.   As a rule, Team Wendy, All Star and Wilson pads are very good.  Diamond UMP-BL are supposedly good, but I haven't tried them. Lower level Diamond (UMP-IX3 and DFM-UMP) and Champro pads are straight to the dumpster bad.  If you buy one of those masks, just realize you're getting a frame and possibly a harness but will need to replace the pads pretty quickly.

If you want to save money up front, I'd recommend buying either a Wilson or Diamond Big League aluminum model mask.  Both have the option of leather pads and are good masks.  Lightweight and offer good vision.  The Diamond is only $90 at Ump-Attire and is offered in silver and matte black.  The Wilson is also offered in silver and black, but you will spend more for it if you want the leather pads ($139) and if you can live with Wilson memory foams you can get a black Wilson for only $99.

I've had about every mask out there for the last several years: +POS Zro-G, Wilson A3007, A3008, Titanium, All Star FM4000 steel and MAG, Rawlings PMX, All Star HSM, Nike Ti, Nike Steel, Champro MAG 1 and 2, Wilson DynAlum, F3 V1 and V2 - and the Diamond aluminums.   There were things I liked about each, but keep coming back to the Diamond Aluminum frames.  They can be bought fairly cheaply, are solid and last and come with decent pads up front. Plus, if they do get damaged and break during a game - it's only 2 game fees to replace them (which I've never had to do)... where if a MAG, F3 V2 and/or Nike mask breaks, then you're out at least 5-6 game fees.

https://www.ump-attire.com/Baseball-Umpire-Equipment/Gear-Footwear/Masks/?page=1&perpage=36&cat=146&orderby=price desc&brand=&search=

 

[boyinr]

1 hour ago, GreyhoundAggie said:

Does anyone have opinions on TW pads vs the Wilson Wrap arounds or doeskins? I've worn leather pads for years and I haven't looked at the TW pads in 5-6 years. Debating which way to go for replacing my Honig's Doeskins.

Took a couple of shots this year that have rung me and I think my old pads are just done for.

Read up on the prior forum post but some of them are stale.

I have Wilson leather two tones in my FM25 and Team Wendy's in the Diamond AL.  I like them both just fine.  @wolfe_man is correct, if you are using them where it gets cold, TW's can be too stiff IMO to sufficiently absorb an impact.         

[SeeingEyeDog]

Hirsute ump with a van dyke here...I have always liked leather pads. Last year, I finally bought a pair of TW pads to see what all the fuss is about. I put them on my Wilson Dyna-Light AL and my Champro Rampage Mag and they are fantastic indeed, especially in hot weather. However, if I haven't shaved my cheeks within 8 hours of game time, the TW pads grab my stubble which is a distraction and an annoyance.

So, I also have an All-Star FM Mag with leather pads in case I forgot to step closer to the razor and/or cooler weather games. TW does not offer pads for the FM Mag nor does All Star offer a brown or tan LUC pad.

For those who do prefer leather pads, please read labels carefully. Many leather pads are vinyl and while vinyl is acceptable, vinyl cracks and rips easily and doesn't feel comfortable on your face.

~Dawg

[BT_Blue]

I know plenty of guys on here that would go back and forth with the Wilson Memory Foam pads and the TW depending on the temp of the time of year. To me, that was just WAY to much work! So I stuck with one or the other. I found that the TW would take about an inning to soften up. But once they did... no issues. 

I will 1 million percent agree with Keith. The All Star LUC pads are some of the most comfortable I have ever worn! The only think I had to get used to is the extra stand off difference between the AS and TW chin pads 

[GreyhoundAggie]

27 minutes ago, BT_Blue said:

I know plenty of guys on here that would go back and forth with the Wilson Memory Foam pads and the TW depending on the temp of the time of year. To me, that was just WAY to much work! So I stuck with one or the other. I found that the TW would take about an inning to soften up. But once they did... no issues. 

I will 1 million percent agree with Keith. The All Star LUC pads are some of the most comfortable I have ever worn! The only think I had to get used to is the extra stand off difference between the AS and TW chin pads 

Do you find the All Star LUC to be too bulky or impede your mouth? They just look gigantic in the pictures I have seen. I call in Tx so its only "cold" here very early in the season, otherwise we may only call 1-2 games a year where the temp is below 50.

 

[wolfe_man]

1 hour ago, GreyhoundAggie said:

Do you find the All Star LUC to be too bulky or impede your mouth? They just look gigantic in the pictures I have seen. I call in Tx so its only "cold" here very early in the season, otherwise we may only call 1-2 games a year where the temp is below 50.

 

The MAG pads fit in every other mask that I've tried them in.   They fit really well in a Diamond aluminum frame. On this frame, they don't even cover my mouth at all.  I've had no trouble being heard using these pads, regardless of the frame I've had them in (Adidas, AS MAG, Diamond AL).

FWIW, I know two guys here in OH (where we've had several games in the 30's this year and many more in the 40's) wear TW pads exlusively.  They say keep the pads in your car, keep your heat on and keep them near the heat and the pads will stay softer. Plus, as @BT_Blue says, they warm up after your face heats them in less than an inning.  I just don't like them when they're hard and the MAG pads are only $5 more and I can wear comfortably regardless of temp.

Here's how the MAG pads look in a Diamond:

[Rock Bottom]

Here's an incredible deal on black All Star FM4000 steel with LUC pads. These have the smaller bottom pad if you're ensure of the mag pads (I've switched to those though and love them). $99.99 and you're good to go. 

https://www.ump-attire.com/Products/FM4000-MBK/All-Star-Matte-Black-System-7-Steel-Umpire-Mask-with-UltraCool

[GreyhoundAggie]

Thanks for the link. I already have a mask frame, just looking to swap the pads out.

[GreyhoundAggie]

I ordered a TW and a LUC and I'll see which one I prefer.

[BT_Blue]

Are the standard LUC pads the same size as the MAG pads just sans the blast plate?