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11 hours ago, BT_Blue said:

The ones I hate the most regarding the courtesy runner, is those stupid tournaments that don't allow the CR until there are 2 outs!

That's the way it should be.  The CR is not meant to be a competitive advantage to get a speedy runner in for a (usually) slow catcher...it's meant to be a way to give the catcher a couple of extra minutes to get his gear on - 99% of the time doing it with two out provides more than enough time to achieve that goal...If there's one out, make the catcher try to score...at which point he can get his gear on...if he makes the second out, well then he has time to change...and, yeah, so once in a blue moon there's a double play...so what...it's a "suggested" speed-up rule...not mandatory...F2 is not required to have a CR.  

From a game management perspective...now you're only needing to deal with the CR sub if F2 is on base AND there are two out...you cut the occurrences by 2/3.

11 hours ago, MadMax said:

Here's the thing, though. Aside from curfews and loss-of-daylight on an unlit field, there are no time limits on a sanctioned, official High School (Varsity) game. So, why is there a need to speed up the game? 

Partly consistency...but mostly pace of play - everyone's not waiting around for the catcher to get ready...when you're umping a seven inning game with no time limit, and you get paid the same no matter how long the game goes, I'm sure you'd like to shave a few minutes off that time if you could...no?   I know a lot of the volunteers would.

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Here is what the rules writers say on the language: Situation 12: At the plate conference, the home team head coach provides to the plate umpire three baseballs. The plate umpire notices that whi

I understand you must do what the state dictates, and I understand they had another year to get the correct baseballs (Probably not a top priority given the events of the past 12 months). That said, f

Okay, not only has this thread gotten well away from the OP - I should know, having been the author, and we're not talking about baseballs and NOSCAE any more - but it's also getting a little testy.

@HokieUmp to throw you another wrinkle, did you see the TASO email today?

From the UIL:
 
BASEBALLS – (Mandatory for all levels of competition, Varsity and Sub-Varsity) Baseballs must meet the current NOCSAE standard. The NFHS and NOCSAE mark shall both be visible on the ball.
  • All teams are expected to be in compliance by the first playing date of February 22, 2021
  • Varsity scrimmages played with non-approved baseballs shall be allowed to be played, but the umpire will be submit an incident report to the UIL.
  •  For Regular Season Games:
    •  Prior to the start of the game, if NFHS/NOCSAE approved baseballs are not available, the visiting coach will have the option to play the game. If both coaches agree to play the game, the home team shall be restricted to the dugout for use of illegal equipment. If the game is not played, the District Executive Committee will decide if the game is a forfeit or to be rescheduled.
    • Once the game has started, if there are no legal baseballs, the head coach shall be restricted to the bench/dugout for the remainder of the game. On the second violation the head coach shall be ejected.
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1 hour ago, ATXBlue said:

@HokieUmp to throw you another wrinkle, did you see the TASO email today?

From the UIL:
 
BASEBALLS – (Mandatory for all levels of competition, Varsity and Sub-Varsity) Baseballs must meet the current NOCSAE standard. The NFHS and NOCSAE mark shall both be visible on the ball.
  • All teams are expected to be in compliance by the first playing date of February 22, 2021
  • Varsity scrimmages played with non-approved baseballs shall be allowed to be played, but the umpire will be submit an incident report to the UIL.
  •  For Regular Season Games:
    •  Prior to the start of the game, if NFHS/NOCSAE approved baseballs are not available, the visiting coach will have the option to play the game. If both coaches agree to play the game, the home team shall be restricted to the dugout for use of illegal equipment. If the game is not played, the District Executive Committee will decide if the game is a forfeit or to be rescheduled.
    • Once the game has started, if there are no legal baseballs, the head coach shall be restricted to the bench/dugout for the remainder of the game. On the second violation the head coach shall be ejected.

So how do they field, pitch, and hit?

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16 hours ago, MadMax said:

Here's the thing, though. Aside from curfews and loss-of-daylight on an unlit field, there are no time limits on a sanctioned, official High School (Varsity) game. So, why is there a need to speed up the game? 

Because I don't get paid by the hour, that's why.

:ranton: I'm amazed by how many PU dips%$ts I work with that turn the game into a never ending social event. Yapping with the spectators and coaches as if they are running for mayor. Taking forever between innings or when there is a pitching change. I understand that sometimes the game will run long, that's just the way it is. But for god's sakes, I get paid by the game. I'm happy to get out of there as soon as possible. And so is everybody else. Never in the history of ever have I heard someone say, "golly, that game was too quick, I wish it was another 3 hour ordeal." :rantoff:

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5 hours ago, ATXBlue said:

@HokieUmp to throw you another wrinkle, did you see the TASO email today?

I *did* see that.  I'm just thrilled, I must say.  Can't WAIT to have to restrict a coach, or walk away from a game, because there aren't the sanctioned baseballs.  Especially if it's a game that I'm hauling a long distance for - I'm sure there are other chapters in Texas that have long hauls, but I'm actually telling my scheduler I'm interested in seeing some of the far away parts we cover.  I just hope those dudes hit the Academy website, or wherever they get the baseballs from.

I'm not sure they needed to be as hard-ass on the scrimmage part.  I know it's an alleged safety issue, so ANY game in '21 should be following the rules.  But an incident report?  Put it this way:  I've already had two scrimmages before this email, and baseball-checking wasn't the highest priority.  That has to change for tomorrow's scrimmage, I suppose.

 

Additional note on this, not just to TASO people - are you guys planning on looking over baseballs during the course of the game, or what?  Is this an end of the stick you're willing to grab?

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13 hours ago, HokieUmp said:

Additional note on this, not just to TASO people - are you guys planning on looking over baseballs during the course of the game, or what?  Is this an end of the stick you're willing to grab?

The 2020 directive in Wa State was to NOT inspect baseballs unless visiting team challenges them.  Coach attests to proper/legal equipment at plate meeting - this would include baseballs.  If no proper balls available, then restrict home HC, play and report. @BT_Blue may know if this has changed...my guess is it has not.

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28 minutes ago, ousafe said:

The 2020 directive in Wa State was to NOT inspect baseballs unless visiting team challenges them.  Coach attests to proper/legal equipment at plate meeting - this would include baseballs.  If no proper balls available, then restrict home HC, play and report. @BT_Blue may know if this has changed...my guess is it has not.

I missed the Zoom meeting two weeks ago. And the state is slacking on uploading the videos onto Arbiter. So I don't know what was said more than they opened with more "return to play" info.

I'm guessing we will me much the same upcoming. But we might actually have to insist on proper baseballs.

Who knows... each state does its own thing at times. Just look at the P/DH and C/DH and the allowance for a CR just as an example.

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OHSAA has it's state meeting tomorrow (available at 9am).   I'll let you know if it has changed, but last year we were sticking to the "no marks on the baseballs, then no games" method.

Unless I'm told differently, then I'll check at the beginning of each game to ensure we have good baseballs; however, I don't plan on checking each time a new ball is put in play, returned from foul territory, etc.  Most of the time I can finish a game with the 3 I started with anyhow, unless the field has poor foul territory with a lot of trees/brush that eats/hides baseballs.

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16 minutes ago, wolfe_man said:

OHSAA has it's state meeting tomorrow (available at 9am).   I'll let you know if it has changed, but last year we were sticking to the "no marks on the baseballs, then no games" method.

Unless I'm told differently, then I'll check at the beginning of each game to ensure we have good baseballs; however, I don't plan on checking each time a new ball is put in play, returned from foul territory, etc.  Most of the time I can finish a game with the 3 I started with anyhow, unless the field has poor foul territory with a lot of trees/brush that eats/hides baseballs.

Just curious...how often does this actually come up???   I find it mind-boggling that neither team would have ANY legal balls sitting in the bottom of an equipment bag, or one of the players' bags, or somewhere else.   Sure, I've arrived at games where neither team had pristine/new balls, for various reasons...but I've never seen a game where both teams couldn't come up with two or three legal balls, in reasonable usable condition. by the plate meeting...even in the most casual community/rec league settings...and even in scenarios where the standard changed in the offseason.  The only time I saw even one team not have any balls was when the other coach's car was literally stolen a few hours before the game.

So, I have to ask...wtf are these coaches doing?   Or is there some other underlying factor here?

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13 minutes ago, beerguy55 said:

Just curious...how often does this actually come up???   I find it mind-boggling that neither team would have ANY legal balls sitting in the bottom of an equipment bag, or one of the players' bags, or somewhere else.   Sure, I've arrived at games where neither team had pristine/new balls, for various reasons...but I've never seen a game where both teams couldn't come up with two or three legal balls, in reasonable usable condition. by the plate meeting...even in the most casual community/rec league settings...and even in scenarios where the standard changed in the offseason.  The only time I saw even one team not have any balls was when the other coach's car was literally stolen a few hours before the game.

So, I have to ask...wtf are these coaches doing?   Or is there some other underlying factor here?

You've just hit on it.

It's not that they didn't purchase legal baseballs, it's that by the time they come to the umpire, the appropriate marks have been scuffed off. How do you know they're legal if there aren't any markings on them?

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23 hours ago, beerguy55 said:

Just curious...how often does this actually come up???   I find it mind-boggling that neither team would have ANY legal balls sitting in the bottom of an equipment bag, or one of the players' bags, or somewhere else.

Well, to be fair, it seems that the last few years have seen a change in what markings makes a baseball legal for HS play, along with a gradual phase-in.  And government entities - and MAN, am I familiar with this! - sometimes have Byzantine procurement methods/rules.  (Yes, I'd LIKE to think that for these kinds of purchases, there's a "petty cash" category, and they can send an intern, or the youngest teacher, or the guy they don't like, down to Academy Sports or Dick's with cash or the debit card, and get a supply of baseballs.  But again - government rules/regs.)

And this year, I would think that 2020's "The End Of Human Existence" mini-series (one-star rating from me!) would have teams potentially awash in baseballs not used, but not this years *mandatory* ones.  I don't know - that's just rampant speculation from me.

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On 1/27/2021 at 2:55 AM, BT_Blue said:

Speaking of the new-old-new DH rule. I am TOTALLY (:no:) looking forward to getting yelled at in the forums about the fact that three states, Washington included, is allowing a Courtesy Runner for DH/F1 and DH/F2.

Obviously they are free to do what they want... However, having three guys filling on spot on the line-up card seems to fly in the face of the rule as written.

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On 1/26/2021 at 7:54 AM, Thunderheads said:

That's funny ....... Michigan told us last year (before the season was cancelled) that we are NOT to play the game.  Basically, ... find some baseballs within a reasonable amount of time or we're done here. (not verbatim)

 

Soon we will spend more time looking for stamps on gear than playing baseball...where does it end? Helmets, bats, balls, catchers gear. At some point we're going to have to check cups for the priceless (injury free) stamp.

At the plate meeting I refer to them a concussion free baseballs--do you have them so we can play.

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20 hours ago, aaluck said:

Soon we will spend more time looking for stamps on gear than playing baseball...where does it end? Helmets, bats, balls, catchers gear. At some point we're going to have to check cups for the priceless (injury free) stamp.

At the plate meeting I refer to them a concussion free baseballs--do you have them so we can play.

Well, you’re more right than you know!

Ohio sent out it’s meeting today and probably half of it was on what the coaches and others do.  Covid regulations and a ton of recommendations that really aren’t even in our jurisdiction anyhow (dugout reqs, solo water bottles vs. team water coolers, equipment managers, sanitize gear after every game, etc). 

If F1 blows on his hands, we have to change baseballs and have him use hand sanitizer before we can resume!

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18 hours ago, wolfe_man said:

Well, you’re more right than you know!

Ohio sent out it’s meeting today and probably half of it was on what the coaches and others do.  Covid regulations and a ton of recommendations that really aren’t even in our jurisdiction anyhow (dug out, water bottles, equipment management, sanitize after every game, etc). 

is Ohio going to require masks for officials?

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9 minutes ago, Thunderheads said:

is Ohio going to require masks for officials?

Pre-game and after, yes.  During game if we are talking to anyone (i.e. coach questioning call) we are supposed to be wearing one too. 

OHSAA isn't requiring them for the Field Umpire or Plate Umpire while working, reasoning that we're normally at least 6 feet from other people.  They do recommend plate umpire work as deep as possible to try to maintain 6 feet. 

I'm getting the F3 mask cover and seeing if it will still allow me good vision on the low pitches, but will just keep a black medical mask in my left ball bag for pre-game/post-game and questions from coaches.  I plan on working in the slot as normal.  The F3 cover I'm hoping allows me some leeway to work closer without taking grief from parents, coaches and evaluators.

I do also recommend the UA masks for those who are on the fence about what mask to wear.  I wear them wherever I'm required to have one and they are actually quite comfortable and breathe well.  I hate the neck gaiters because they trap all that heat in, so I like the removable ones like UA.  Yes, $30 is a lot, but if you have an UA outlet near you - they were running them at BOGO prices which makes it more manageable.

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16 minutes ago, wolfe_man said:

Pre-game and after, yes.  During game if we are talking to anyone (i.e. coach questioning call) we are supposed to be wearing one too. 

OHSAA isn't requiring them for the Field Umpire or Plate Umpire while working, reasoning that we're normally at least 6 feet from other people.  They do recommend plate umpire work as deep as possible to try to maintain 6 feet. 

I'm getting the F3 mask cover and seeing if it will still allow me good vision on the low pitches, but will just keep a black medical mask in my left ball bag for pre-game/post-game and questions from coaches.  I plan on working in the slot as normal.  The F3 cover I'm hoping allows me some leeway to work closer without taking grief from parents, coaches and evaluators.

I do also recommend the UA masks for those who are on the fence about what mask to wear.  I wear them wherever I'm required to have one and they are actually quite comfortable and breathe well.  I hate the neck gaiters because they trap all that heat in, so I like the removable ones like UA.  Yes, $30 is a lot, but if you have an UA outlet near you - they were running them at BOGO prices which makes it more manageable.

Literally, impossible :HS 

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30 minutes ago, Thunderheads said:

Literally, impossible :HS 

Yeah... and it is recommend (read as left up to you), so I will be working the slot as normal.  And which I did last year in Legion and tourney ball. 

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On 2/10/2021 at 1:51 PM, HokieUmp said:

Well, to be fair, it seems that the last few years have seen a change in what markings makes a baseball legal for HS play, along with a gradual phase-in.  And government entities - and MAN, am I familiar with this! - sometimes have Byzantine procurement methods/rules.  (Yes, I'd LIKE to think that for these kinds of purchases, there's a "petty cash" category, and they can send an intern, or the youngest teacher, or the guy they don't like, down to Academy Sports or Dick's with cash or the debit card, and get a supply of baseballs.  But again - government rules/regs.)

And this year, I would think that 2020's "The End Of Human Existence" mini-series (one-star rating from me!) would have teams potentially awash in baseballs not used, but not this years *mandatory* ones.  I don't know - that's just rampant speculation from me.

We have been instructed to look for the NOCSAE/NFHS marks pre-game, and when new balls come in. I make it a habit to glance down. When you can no longer see the NOCSAE/NFSH marks remove the ball from play. All about liability and CYA.

 

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2 hours ago, GreyhoundAggie said:

We have been instructed to look for the NOCSAE/NFHS marks pre-game, and when new balls come in. I make it a habit to glance down. When you can no longer see the NOCSAE/NFSH marks remove the ball from play. All about liability and CYA.

Interesting.  Thing is, I wear readers.  Pre-game would be fine, since I'd have them on to go over the lineup cards.  But that's about all I can get behind in that reply.  For one thing, I don't really track when a new baseball comes in the game - is it REALLY new, or is it one F2 let get away, or a fouled off pitch, or what?  And I'm not digging into my ballbag for my readers, so I can then fine-tooth that %$^&# thing.

Am I being stubborn?  Am I risking myself from a liability standpoint?  Yes to both.  I'll live with it.

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On 2/9/2021 at 9:02 AM, ousafe said:

The 2020 directive in Wa State was to NOT inspect baseballs unless visiting team challenges them.  Coach attests to proper/legal equipment at plate meeting - this would include baseballs.  If no proper balls available, then restrict home HC, play and report. @BT_Blue may know if this has changed...my guess is it has not.

So last Wednesday at the state zoom meeting, the directive came down that umpires ARE NOT to handle/inspect/hold on to baseballs in games in the state of Washington! So at the pregame, we are to ask both head coaches if "all players are properly and legally equipped, and that all equipment is legal according to NFHS and WIAA rules?" 

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2 hours ago, BT_Blue said:

So last Wednesday at the state zoom meeting, the directive came down that umpires ARE NOT to handle/inspect/hold on to baseballs in games in the state of Washington! So at the pregame, we are to ask both head coaches if "all players are properly and legally equipped, and that all equipment is legal according to NFHS and WIAA rules?" 

"Do you have the proper balls for this game?"

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5 hours ago, Matt said:

"Do you have the proper balls for this game?"

Yeah. Pretty much. It has been a couple stressful days since that meet. So I couldn't remember it verbatim. But that im sure is part of the plate meeting this year.

They also would like us to consider backing up from out normal slot area. I will try. But I'm not sure I will be able to follow this recommendation. 

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Yeah. Pretty much. It has been a couple stressful days since that meet. So I couldn't remember it verbatim. But that im sure is part of the plate meeting this year.
They also would like us to consider backing up from out normal slot area. I will try. But I'm not sure I will be able to follow this recommendation. 
Yeah, calling balls and strikes from further away....I'm either calling games like I should or I'm not....

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

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14 hours ago, Thunderheads said:

Yeah, calling balls and strikes from further away....I'm either calling games like I should or I'm not....

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 

I'm not as hardline as that. But pretty much. I believe I can be safe while still providing pretty much the same services as I have in the past. 

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