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Ejection worthy?

Guest Eastside Coach

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Guest Eastside Coach

Guest Eastside Coach

Posted
Posted

NFHS rules. 12U youth baseball game. Batter is struck in the foot by a pitch. He tosses his bat well in front of home plate, slams his helmet down and jogs toward the mound, says a few words. Then catches himself and walks toward first base while staring at the pitcher who has never left the mound. I was telling a fellow coach that should be an immediate ejection. There was no ejection made. 

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SeeingEyeDog
SeeingEyeDog

I mean...I can't think of an easier ejection not involving an assault of some kind. The quoted rule is brilliantly crystalline there... I'm also continually amazed at younger players and senior c

maven
maven

Some umpires eject if you look askance at them. Some won't eject if you shoot them with a 9 mil. This batter gave nobody the opportunity to defuse. Throwing equipment and charging the mound are

Aging_Arbiter
Aging_Arbiter

I have ZERO issue with giving a coach a few moments (as I am in front of and between) to realize this "teachable moment".  As mentioned, coach better be already engaged (or on the way) by the time I l

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Senor Azul

Senor Azul

Posted
Posted

You know your stuff, Eastside Coach. Here’s the actual rule--

2019 NFHS rule 3 SECTION 3 BENCH AND FIELD CONDUCT

ART. 1 . . . A coach, player, substitute, attendant or other bench personnel shall not:

l. deliberately throw a bat, helmet, etc.;

PENALTY: The umpire shall eject the offender from the game…

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SeeingEyeDog

SeeingEyeDog

Posted
Posted

I mean...I can't think of an easier ejection not involving an assault of some kind. The quoted rule is brilliantly crystalline there...

I'm also continually amazed at younger players and senior citizen players whose default reaction when they are HBP is to take it personally that they were plunked on purpose. Get out of the way or wear it...either way, cut the theatrics and let's play ball.

~Dog

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aaluck

aaluck

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, SeeingEyeDog said:

I'm also continually amazed at younger players

Blame is squarely on parents and coaches. If the coach doesn't immediately come from 3rd and remove the player when he gets to first, the parent should. 12U nevertheless!

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Thunderheads

Thunderheads

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, aaluck said:

Blame is squarely on parents and coaches. If the coach doesn't immediately come from 3rd and remove the player when he gets to first, the parent should. 12U nevertheless!

:rollinglaugh::rollinglaugh::rollinglaugh:

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aaluck

aaluck

Posted
Posted
50 minutes ago, Thunderheads said:

:rollinglaugh::rollinglaugh::rollinglaugh:

True.  In fact, the parent would probably be mad at the coach if he removed little Johnny! That's where we are at these days.

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Guest guest

Guest guest

Posted
Posted

Here is a link to a video of what I presume is the incident described. Facebook account not required:

This was discussed in the "Umpires" Facebook group, with the moderators of the group universally saying they would not eject for this. A typical moderator comment: "It's amazing scanning this thread that EVERYONE who said they wouldn't eject is an umpire I respect from my past dealings with them on this board.

The umpire should've done his job after the HBP and got in front of the batter. I do that at every level I've worked, from LL to college.
 
Ejection takes no skill, no game management, no recognition that sometimes people get pissed off when they get hit. Defuse. Warn the benches if necessary."

The final comment in the thread was, "Okay. I am really so surprised that so many of you have so little understanding of young men this age." by a moderator of the group, who then locked the thread from further comments.

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Thunderheads

Thunderheads

Posted
Posted

Now that I see the video, and considering YES, the umpire should have gotten in front of the kid .......it wasn't like he was acting like an un-hinged lunatic or anything ..........

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SeeingEyeDog

SeeingEyeDog

Posted
Posted

Bro...in the foot? Really? We're tawkin' 'bout...in the foot? I don't wish anyone HBP, of course...but, I'd be curious to see what this player thinks is an appropriate response to a HBP above the waist...or to the head? Any of which could be accidental, especially at that age...

In the foot...:rolleyes:

As for stepping out in front of the plate when there is a HBP...make sure you do that EVERY time, or never. Preferably, all the time.

~Dog

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LMSANS

LMSANS

Posted
Posted

I have never had an issue and I have always stepped out in front. I'm pretty sure I would not have had an issue if I didn't step out, but I was there anyway. I always stepped in between the lineman when I was the umpire in football. It has a calming influence.

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Replacematt

Replacematt

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Guest guest said:

Here is a link to a video of what I presume is the incident described. Facebook account not required:

This was discussed in the "Umpires" Facebook group, with the moderators of the group universally saying they would not eject for this. A typical moderator comment: "It's amazing scanning this thread that EVERYONE who said they wouldn't eject is an umpire I respect from my past dealings with them on this board.

The umpire should've done his job after the HBP and got in front of the batter. I do that at every level I've worked, from LL to college.
 
Ejection takes no skill, no game management, no recognition that sometimes people get pissed off when they get hit. Defuse. Warn the benches if necessary."

The final comment in the thread was, "Okay. I am really so surprised that so many of you have so little understanding of young men this age." by a moderator of the group, who then locked the thread from further comments.

I'm guessing that is one of the groups from which I got banned for calling out moderators lying.

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Young_Ump

Young_Ump

Posted
Posted

Wow, just wow. For me at least, he's gone as soon as he slams the bat and walks out there with his fists clenched.

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maven

maven

Posted
Posted

Some umpires eject if you look askance at them. Some won't eject if you shoot them with a 9 mil. :shrug:

This batter gave nobody the opportunity to defuse. Throwing equipment and charging the mound are immediate ejections at any level. Game management is no doubt an art, not a science, and I discourage the use of 'automatic', but that's the end of the spectrum the play described approaches.

All this assumes, of course, that events transpired as described (I see no link to video).

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Rich Ives

Rich Ives

Posted
Posted

I think you should wait a beat or two to see what the coach does.  If the coach yanks the kid all is good - and even better actually as getting yanked by the coach is a lot more meaningful as opposed to getting tossed by "that lousy umpire".

If the coach doesn't react - then toss the kid.

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Replacematt

Replacematt

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Rich Ives said:

I think you should wait a beat or two to see what the coach does.  If the coach yanks the kid all is good - and even better actually as getting yanked by the coach is a lot more meaningful as opposed to getting tossed by "that lousy umpire".

If the coach doesn't react - then toss the kid.

As I don't do youth baseball, I would ask this...should the umpire have a brief conversation with the coach thanking him and getting on the same page as to the player's lack of future participation in that game?

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Rich Ives

Rich Ives

Posted
Posted
17 minutes ago, Matt said:

As I don't do youth baseball, I would ask this...should the umpire have a brief conversation with the coach thanking him and getting on the same page as to the player's lack of future participation in that game?

 

No. Keep away.  Don't show any sign that someone might view as  a setup.

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beerguy55

beerguy55

Posted
Posted
20 hours ago, Rich Ives said:

I think you should wait a beat or two to see what the coach does.  If the coach yanks the kid all is good - and even better actually as getting yanked by the coach is a lot more meaningful as opposed to getting tossed by "that lousy umpire".

If the coach doesn't react - then toss the kid.

This...I've had one occasion where I was able to say "Mike, I got this" and remove my player before the imminent ejection - in our case, an ejection was also an automatic suspension, and a team fine, so there's every incentive to resolve this before it gets to that.  (or keep your kids in check to begin with - that's on me).  I'm thankful the ump knew what I was doing, and nothing needed to be said...until beers that evening. :)

18 hours ago, Matt said:

As I don't do youth baseball, I would ask this...should the umpire have a brief conversation with the coach thanking him and getting on the same page as to the player's lack of future participation in that game?

You shouldn't have to...if the coach is on your wavelength he'll do what needs to be done and not need a pat on the head...if he isn't, he won't get it.  You can thank him much much later, away from the ball park, if you think you need to.

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Mudisfun

Mudisfun

Posted
Posted
20 hours ago, Rich Ives said:

I think you should wait a beat or two to see what the coach does.  If the coach yanks the kid all is good - and even better actually as getting yanked by the coach is a lot more meaningful as opposed to getting tossed by "that lousy umpire".

If the coach doesn't react - then toss the kid.

The time for the 'beat or two' ended after the bat slam and the dumpling stocking towards F1... By then, that coach, if he expects me to wait a beat or two better be on his horse dealing with this. The window between allowing the coach to deal with this and not dealing with it is extremely small. Now if he is verbally into the kid as he is coming to get him, great, he is dealing with it. However if he is just sitting there like a bump on a log like this is normal, then his opportunity to deliver that coach/player life lesson is over and whatever happens next is outside his ability to intervene.  

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aaluck

aaluck

Posted
Posted
34 minutes ago, Mudisfun said:

The time for the 'beat or two' ended after the bat slam and the dumpling stocking towards F1...

For some reason I cannot get it to play. Is there a trick I'm missing?

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Rich Ives

Rich Ives

Posted
Posted
43 minutes ago, Mudisfun said:

The time for the 'beat or two' ended after the bat slam and the dumpling stocking towards F1... By then, that coach, if he expects me to wait a beat or two better be on his horse dealing with this. The window between allowing the coach to deal with this and not dealing with it is extremely small. Now if he is verbally into the kid as he is coming to get him, great, he is dealing with it. However if he is just sitting there like a bump on a log like this is normal, then his opportunity to deliver that coach/player life lesson is over and whatever happens next is outside his ability to intervene.  

You are wrong  in 12U which this was.

.  

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aaluck

aaluck

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, Rich Ives said:

You are wrong  in 12U which this was.

.  

What do you take exception with?

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HokieUmp

HokieUmp

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, Rich Ives said:

Instant ejection without giving the coach  a chance to handle it.

I'd disagree, but to the extent of saying "it depends."   The kid heading for the mound changes this from "hissy-fit" to a physical threat, and need to get shut-down/punished quick-smart.  It just seems like there's not a big window for a coach to do something to insert himself into it.  With just a written description, of course, it's hard to say with complete conviction, but that's how I'm approaching it.

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