Thank you, U-E!

[kylehutson]

First inning of a JV tourney. I'm PU. Banger comes in at home. Ball beats the runner, and I call him out. VTHC comes out and says he missed the tag. I spoke with my partner who confirmed that the catcher missed the tag. *sigh* - nothing good can come of this, but better to get the call right. This sammich isn't looking very tasty. I overturn myself and call the runner safe at home. Naturally the HTHC comes out now and asks if I want the BU to call balls and strikes for me, too. Things settle down for a couple of innings.

 

Third inning. HT batter steps a foot out of the batters box as the catcher is attempting to throw to 3B to put out a baserunner - the ball deflects off the batter's helmet. I called BI based on the discussion here at http://umpire-empire.com/index.php/topic/61470-batters-box-what-to-do/. Again the HTHC comes out and claims that the batter can't be interfering because he's in the batters box (not unexpected, in and of itself). But then he says "your other umpire has been overturning your calls all day, do you want to get him in here to help?" I said "coach, that's your warning." He responded with "Really? That's my warning? Really?? No." At that point I ejected.

 

So I wanted to get on here and let you guys know that (1) I appreciate the rules discussions here that made me very confident in ruling what I did, and (2) my reading here has helped me understand the time and place for ejecting (i.e. the "three P's") and that doing so doesn't make me a bad person.

[ElkOil]

Sounds like you were on top of it.  Remember, too, that you have the option of restricting him to the dugout if you don't think his action rise to the level of requiring an ejection but are still disruptive.

[Majordave]

Great to hear. But, it sounds like we've created a monster. Hahaha! Good work. Please try not to have to eat very many SH*# sammiches. @Jocko says they are fattening. Lmao.

[StrikeDavis]

First Inning Situation: Where was the BU that he had a better view than you?  I know you just wanted to get the call right, but I think it came at the expense of your credibility for the remainder of the game.  I just eat that call as a plate umpire.  It sounds like the third inning situation stemmed more from the coach still mad about the first inning situation than the play that happened.  

[kylehutson]

@StrikeDavis - he was in C, moving toward the plate. It was just the weird angle that the ball came in at - the ball came in high and the catcher swiped down toward the leg of the runner sliding head-first. I've been racking my brain trying to figure out how I could have gotten a better view, and I really don't have a good answer unless I ducked to the ground as he was sliding - which would be even more weird.

 

I hear what you're saying, and yes, I think he was still mad about the first inning.

[ricka56]

he was in C, moving toward the plate. It was just the weird angle that the ball came in at - the ball came in high and the catcher swiped down toward the leg of the runner sliding head-first. I've been racking my brain trying to figure out how I could have gotten a better view, and I really don't have a good answer unless I ducked to the ground as he was sliding - which would be even more weird.

 

Don't know why BU from C would have been moving towards HP unless he was spectating...he has better things to be doing. Unless BU could have seen daylight between the glove and runner (doubtful) all he could have done was guess. The thought of going to my partner in 'C' on a tag play at the plate never would have occurred to me ("no, coach, I'm not asking my partner...I have the tag beating the touch"). And if I did ask for his info, BU would have to be very persuasive to have me overturn what I had. 

 

You may have gotten too close to be able to see a touch over here  <---  and a tag over there ---> at the same time. Umpires used to be taught to stay back to be able to see both touch/tag, but now a days the more likely situation is a hard to see swipe tag that you can't see if you're too far back behind the plate. So these days, they teach umpires to get closer...sometimes that blows up on us if we don't recognize what's about to happen. With experience we get better at recognizing. 

[bam]

Why would you even entertain going to your partner on a play at the plate?

Mind boggling.

With all due respect, you deserved any and all abuse after that, and you had NO business tossing the coach after he referenced the first incident.

This "getting the call right" sh!t is getting COMPLETELY out of control.

[amb1995]

Why would you even entertain going to your partner on a play at the plate?

Mind boggling.

With all due respect, you deserved any and all abuse after that, and you had NO business tossing the coach after he referenced the first incident.

This "getting the call right" sh!t is getting COMPLETELY out of control.

So if the Joyce/Galaraga situation happened during this era of replay in baseball he'd be in the wrong for having the right call enforced. I understand it took part at a different time, but it's a situation in which making the "right call" would have made a difference.

[maven]

I saw PU go to BU about whether R3 left early for a retouch appeal. And the ball was hit to LF.

[MPLSMatt]

Why would you even entertain going to your partner on a play at the plate?

Mind boggling.

With all due respect, you deserved any and all abuse after that, and you had NO business tossing the coach after he referenced the first incident.

This "getting the call right" sh!t is getting COMPLETELY out of control.

So if the Joyce/Galaraga situation happened during this era of replay in baseball he'd be in the wrong for having the right call enforced. I understand it took part at a different time, but it's a situation in which making the "right call" would have made a difference.

Who would Joyce have appealed to that had a better view than him? If he got straight lined or missed a pulled foot, sure appeal away but in a normal situation there's no reason for a guy 100 feet away overruling a guy who's 15 feet away. Do we just take a vote on every close play now or what?

I'm not old school and generally believe in getting the call right at all costs but who's to say who's version of the play is right? In the OP I'll put my money on the PUs judgment every day of the week.

[bam]

Why would you even entertain going to your partner on a play at the plate?

Mind boggling.

With all due respect, you deserved any and all abuse after that, and you had NO business tossing the coach after he referenced the first incident.

This "getting the call right" sh!t is getting COMPLETELY out of control.

So if the Joyce/Galaraga situation happened during this era of replay in baseball he'd be in the wrong for having the right call enforced. I understand it took part at a different time, but it's a situation in which making the "right call" would have made a difference. I'm sorry. I missed the part where the OP was a professional baseball games with replay available.

Or did I?

Edited: just went back and checked- OP is a HS JV game.

So yeah, absolutely lets get the version of the play from a guy 100 feet away, rather than the guy 10 feet away. Not.

If I was on the bases and my partner came to me on a play at the plate, I ask him if he's lost his mind, and then block him off the rest of my schedule.

[kylehutson]

Why would you even entertain going to your partner on a play at the plate?

Mind boggling.

With all due respect, you deserved any and all abuse after that, and you had NO business tossing the coach after he referenced the first incident.

This first part is good advice. I probably shouldn't have gone to my partner on the play at the plate.

As for the latter, then I should just listen to this all day? Maybe I should have mentioned that this was at least the third time he said something about it. Anything he disagreed with would get a quip from the dugout about checking with my partner.

[bam]

Why would you even entertain going to your partner on a play at the plate?

Mind boggling.

With all due respect, you deserved any and all abuse after that, and you had NO business tossing the coach after he referenced the first incident.

This first part is good advice. I probably shouldn't have gone to my partner on the play at the plate.

As for the latter, then I should just listen to this all day? Maybe I should have mentioned that this was at least the third time he said something about it. Anything he disagreed with would get a quip from the dugout about checking with my partner.

New info. Plus I may have been hasty in saying you had no business tossing the rat. You can't listen to a coach constantly bring the same sore subject up. Me? If I screwed something up that badly (and I have, more than once), I need to take my medicine and move on. But the rat gets a LOT of rope with which to hang himself.

[Magic]

Why would you even entertain going to your partner on a play at the plate?

Mind boggling.

With all due respect, you deserved any and all abuse after that, and you had NO business tossing the coach after he referenced the first incident.

This first part is good advice. I probably shouldn't have gone to my partner on the play at the plate.

As for the latter, then I should just listen to this all day? Maybe I should have mentioned that this was at least the third time he said something about it. Anything he disagreed with would get a quip from the dugout about checking with my partner.

New info. Plus I may have been hasty in saying you had no business tossing the rat. You can't listen to a coach constantly bring the same sore subject up. Me? If I screwed something up that badly (and I have, more than once), I need to take my medicine and move on. But the rat gets a LOT of rope with which to hang himself.

Bam I agree with you 100%, but there comes a breaking point. And when the Coach hits it, I am going to let him know. "Coach I have listened to you bring up that play enough for one game. The next time you reference that play, you will be getting a free ride to the parking lot. Are we clear?" And to be honest that point would probably come about the 2nd or 3rd time he brought up the original call. I will let him get 1 extra jab in, maybe 2 if I am in a good mood.

But back to the original post, yeah I wouldn't go to my partner for help on that one. I am going to lie on my sword and die like a man. Or eat the $h!t Sammich. Which ever you prefer.

Games Worked Too Damn Many

[labguy1971]

Keep working brother blue and learn from your experiences.  It seems that you are by sharing them here to see if you did right or to get a different point of view on your actions.  Good veteran guys will always help ya as they continue to help me.   

[kylehutson]

Keep working brother blue and learn from your experiences.  It seems that you are by sharing them here to see if you did right or to get a different point of view on your actions.  Good veteran guys will always help ya as they continue to help me.

That's exactly why I'm here. Always learning, trying to get better

[MPLSMatt]

Keep working brother blue and learn from your experiences. It seems that you are by sharing them here to see if you did right or to get a different point of view on your actions. Good veteran guys will always help ya as they continue to help me.

[johnnyg08]

As others have said.  "getting the call right" does not mean "coach disagrees so I'm going to ask my partner who is 100+ feet away to try and get them to overturn."

 

NOW...if the ball is on the ground and you called him out...that is a different story not applicable to your original post.

 

"Coach, the call at the plate is my call.  My judgment on that play is that he was safe/out.  No, I will not go ask my partner.  The call at the plate belongs to me.  Let's get back to work"

[blue23ll]

Coach, I saw the play, I'm 100% sure I got it right. My partner can't help me from 100 feet away. Let's go. ORRRRRRRRRR, go talk to your partner.." Hey, let's go get a beer after the game"...

[kylehutson]

Coach, I saw the play, I'm 100% sure I got it right. My partner can't help me from 100 feet away. Let's go. ORRRRRRRRRR, go talk to your partner.." Hey, let's go get a beer after the game"...

 

Heh - I like that.

 

"I'm coming over here to appease the coach. Just smile and nod and let's get back to the game."

 

 

I do appreciate you guys telling me where I messed up as well. I've never claimed to be perfect. I do, however, try not to make the same mistake more than once.

[MPLSMatt]

Coach, I saw the play, I'm 100% sure I got it right. My partner can't help me from 100 feet away. Let's go. ORRRRRRRRRR, go talk to your partner.." Hey, let's go get a beer after the game"...

Heh - I like that.

"I'm coming over here to appease the coach. Just smile and nod and let's get back to the game."

I do appreciate you guys telling me where I messed up as well. I've never claimed to be perfect. I do, however, try not to make the same mistake more than once.

Awesome attitude. I'm sure you are a pleasure to deal with our there and a rapidly improving umpire. Good umpires are always learning.

[ricka56]

 ORRRRRRRRRR, go talk to your partner.." Hey, let's go get a beer after the game"...

 

Terrible precedent, falsely appeasing a coach,  IMO. If a coach talks you into getting with your partner on a call that you should completely own (as is the OP), then both coaches are going to be on fishing expeditions throughout the game on every close play. You're credibility on any call will be non-existent....they'll own you. There are times when you have a valid reason to ask for help (straight-lined/blocked out/etc.) and you should go get help if there may be something that you might have missed that your partner may have information on, in order to get the call right. But to go to your partner to ask him what he had for lunch in the guise of working to get the call right is dishonest and unprofessional. And it makes it harder for the next umpire who has the intestinal fortitude to stick with the call that he owned.

[UmpJeff]

HTHC would have been warned immediately after his comment about him asking you if you wanted BU calling Balls and Strikes for you.  The leash would have been so tight his face would turn red. 

 But then he says "your other umpire has been overturning your calls all day, do you want to get him in here to help?" I said "coach, that's your warning. "BOOM, you're done!"

 

 

 

[HuskerUmp22]

I had a situation this weekend where the HC wanted me to get help on a play at first base (I'm BU). The offensive coach said: "His foot was off the bag! Ask for help!"He starts walking towards my partner who didn't say anything, then he walks toward me. I say, "Coach, the 1B foot got on the bag before your player got to first base. He is out." He turns and walks away. 

[Jocko]

That learning attitude is paramount. I won't rehash the don't go to your partner just to appease a rat that wants a different call. If there's a question about a dropped ball you might have been blocked out on, different story. But own your call. Right or wrong. We all kick one now and then. On plays at the plate, remember to stay in F2's glove side pocket and let him take you to the play. If you wind up in fair territory (I OFTEN do), so be it. Wherever you have the optimal view. Keep working and learning, my brother.