umpires and labor laws

[Guest Guest]

I belong to an organization that has a clinic coming up. Attendance is "mandatory" for umpires who wish to be assigned in the coming season. The clinic costs three game fees plus we must work multiple games, multiple days, with no pay.

Anyone know if there's any law against requiring me to work free just to get consideration for a job I already have?

[Guest Michael W.]

@greyhawk,

 

If an umpire is decent, he's probably getting four-five times that amount he's paying to attend my clinic as compensation throughout the season for games worked. Keeping that in mind, if a reputable association is striving for the betterment of their own officials they will be bringing in outside instructors for help.

 

I can tell you while game fees within my association vary from double digits to triple digits, I personally charge my officials three of our lowest paying game fees ($40/game) to attend our clinic to which I bring in Minor League Instructors and Collegiate Instructors. In my opinion as an official my goal should always be striving to be the best official I can be, that being said I will get better by being evaluated and working games. The more different eyes of competent evaluators my association provides to look at me, the better I will get...I can promise you bringing in these extra eyes doesn't come cheap.

 

I don't make a profit from the clinics our association runs, however we do charge just enough to cover our expenses and make sure we can provide the best training possible...

 

As an official, you should be able to trust your assignor and association does everything with the intent of:

 

A) Making you the best official you can be.

B) Making all officials within the association the best they can be.

C) Projecting and providing the highest quality professional officiating around.

 

I think the bottom line here is if you're not willing to put out the money to get better instruction to make you a better official, I probably don't want you in my association because in my mind you already think you're the best official you can be and that additional instruction isn't going to make you better. I have a news flash for every official in the world, you can always find something to improve on.

 

Pay the money for quality instruction, work the scrimmages to get more evaluation feedback and different eyes on you, get better and be the best you can be for not only yourself but the association and the assignor you are representing when you walk on the field...  

 

STRIVE TO BE BETTER AS AN OFFICIAL, AND NEVER BE SATISFIED WITH WHERE YOU ARE AS AN OFFICIAL! THERE IS ALWAYS ROOM FOR IMPROVEMENT.

 

 

M.W

 

[th3]

The primary association/assigning group that i belong to for runs both free and paid clinics. None are "mandatory" although, obviously, you wont get better games if they don't see you work the clinics. They do not charge an annual fee, but do require you to buy a uniform package from them in order to be assigned non-scholastic games. 

[LRZ]

@greyhawk,

 

If an umpire is decent, he's probably getting four-five times that amount he's paying to attend my clinic as compensation throughout the season for games worked. Keeping that in mind, if a reputable association is striving for the betterment of their own officials they will be bringing in outside instructors for help.

 

I can tell you while game fees within my association vary from double digits to triple digits, I personally charge my officials three of our lowest paying game fees ($40/game) to attend our clinic to which I bring in Minor League Instructors and Collegiate Instructors. In my opinion as an official my goal should always be striving to be the best official I can be, that being said I will get better by being evaluated and working games. The more different eyes of competent evaluators my association provides to look at me, the better I will get...I can promise you bringing in these extra eyes doesn't come cheap.

 

I don't make a profit from the clinics our association runs, however we do charge just enough to cover our expenses and make sure we can provide the best training possible...

 

As an official, you should be able to trust your assignor and association does everything with the intent of:

 

A) Making you the best official you can be.

B) Making all officials within the association the best they can be.

C) Projecting and providing the highest quality professional officiating around.

 

I think the bottom line here is if you're not willing to put out the money to get better instruction to make you a better official, I probably don't want you in my association because in my mind you already think you're the best official you can be and that additional instruction isn't going to make you better. I have a news flash for every official in the world, you can always find something to improve on.

 

Pay the money for quality instruction, work the scrimmages to get more evaluation feedback and different eyes on you, get better and be the best you can be for not only yourself but the association and the assignor you are representing when you walk on the field...  

 

STRIVE TO BE BETTER AS AN OFFICIAL, AND NEVER BE SATISFIED WITH WHERE YOU ARE AS AN OFFICIAL! THERE IS ALWAYS ROOM FOR IMPROVEMENT.

 

 

M.W

 

Michael W., not every jurisdiction is as free of politics as your area might be. Around here, decent officials can languish for years because they don't have friends in high places, or don't play the politics game, or whatever.

 

Moreover, not every assigner is as fair-minded and altruistic as you might be: if an association or clinic is run above-board and not just to make money for the assignors, there should be no objection to financial transparency, as greyhawk suggests. If I can paraphrase what he is saying: go to clinics and strive to improve, certainly, but clinics, especially mandatory ones, should be run for that purpose and not as profit-generating concerns. (Apologies to greyhawk if I've gotten your argument wrong.)

[noumpere]

Part of the issue on this is that the definition of "association" varies from place to place.  In some areas, it's a training group but does no actual assigning.  In some areas there are multiple associtaions you can belong to.  In some areas, it's one association who the state assigns to a geographical area and it's the only (hs) game in town. and I'm sure there are other variations as well.

[grayhawk]

 

@greyhawk,

 

If an umpire is decent, he's probably getting four-five times that amount he's paying to attend my clinic as compensation throughout the season for games worked. Keeping that in mind, if a reputable association is striving for the betterment of their own officials they will be bringing in outside instructors for help.

 

I can tell you while game fees within my association vary from double digits to triple digits, I personally charge my officials three of our lowest paying game fees ($40/game) to attend our clinic to which I bring in Minor League Instructors and Collegiate Instructors. In my opinion as an official my goal should always be striving to be the best official I can be, that being said I will get better by being evaluated and working games. The more different eyes of competent evaluators my association provides to look at me, the better I will get...I can promise you bringing in these extra eyes doesn't come cheap.

 

I don't make a profit from the clinics our association runs, however we do charge just enough to cover our expenses and make sure we can provide the best training possible...

 

As an official, you should be able to trust your assignor and association does everything with the intent of:

 

A) Making you the best official you can be.

B) Making all officials within the association the best they can be.

C) Projecting and providing the highest quality professional officiating around.

 

I think the bottom line here is if you're not willing to put out the money to get better instruction to make you a better official, I probably don't want you in my association because in my mind you already think you're the best official you can be and that additional instruction isn't going to make you better. I have a news flash for every official in the world, you can always find something to improve on.

 

Pay the money for quality instruction, work the scrimmages to get more evaluation feedback and different eyes on you, get better and be the best you can be for not only yourself but the association and the assignor you are representing when you walk on the field...  

 

STRIVE TO BE BETTER AS AN OFFICIAL, AND NEVER BE SATISFIED WITH WHERE YOU ARE AS AN OFFICIAL! THERE IS ALWAYS ROOM FOR IMPROVEMENT.

 

 

M.W

 

Michael W., not every jurisdiction is as free of politics as your area might be. Around here, decent officials can languish for years because they don't have friends in high places, or don't play the politics game, or whatever.

 

Moreover, not every assigner is as fair-minded and altruistic as you might be: if an association or clinic is run above-board and not just to make money for the assignors, there should be no objection to financial transparency, as greyhawk suggests. If I can paraphrase what he is saying: go to clinics and strive to improve, certainly, but clinics, especially mandatory ones, should be run for that purpose and not as profit-generating concerns. (Apologies to greyhawk if I've gotten your argument wrong.)

 

 

This pretty well sums it up.  A couple more things.  First, about this statement:

 

 

 

As an official, you should be able to trust your assignor and association does everything with the intent of:

 

A) Making you the best official you can be.

B) Making all officials within the association the best they can be.

C) Projecting and providing the highest quality professional officiating around.

 

I would use the old saying:  Trust, but verify.  In my opinion, any reputable association has open elections for board members, so that means the board is accountable to the membership.  If they are not acting as you describe above, they can be voted out.  Unfortunately, this also means that association politics can rear its ugly head and really good board members can also be voted out.  It comes with the territory, I suppose.

 

For the record, I am personally in favor of investing in my own improvement.  While I could fulfill my association clinic requirement by simply attending our free, one-day clinic, instead I have chosen to invest $150 to go to Wendelstedt's local "SoCal Classic" which is being held a couple of weekends from now.  It's my understanding that there are several members of the HS association that are also going,

 

I do recognize that my views are shaped, in large part, on how things are done here.  We have many options for clinics here in SoCal.  Everything from the association's free clinic, to a free one-day MLB clinic in Compton, to a $40 weekend clinic put on by another association, to the SoCal Classic.  Or, if you are willing to travel a short distance, you can go to the Desert Classic, or the Black and Blue Clinic in Sacramento.  I realize that other regions of the country do not necessarily have this many options.

 

I do want to reiterate that financial transparency should be the default for any association that wants to be considered reputable.  If that makes the leadership uncomfortable, then perhaps they need to reevaluate how they are spending the members' money.

[refump10]

I belong to three different associations, two in baseball and one in basketball.  Our basketball association has a requirement to work a summer team camp that our association provides officials to in order to be eligible for post-season play. We do not pay a fee for working the camp.  Either that, or attending one of the "for pay" camps that are all over the place, generally regarded as college identification camps run by various college conference assigners. 

 

Our HS baseball association has no camps, but there is a meeting attendance requirement to be eligible for post season. 

 

The college group I'm in requires each umpire to work at least four college scrimmages each fall. As a newbie to the group, I've worked as many of these scrimmages as I've been able, as well as having attended two "identification" camps to try and get into a couple of conferences.  I've got nearly $1,000 invested in camps this fall.  Will I get in a conference?  Who knows, I hope so. And if I don't, I'm going to try again next year.

 

But every association/conference I've ever belonged to has language in their bylaws or contracts that I'm an independent contractor.  However, that doesn't absolve me from having to do certain things to qualify for a schedule, or be a member in good standing, such as camp/clinic attendance, paying dues, etc.  In the environment we have today, the only way of moving up is to be seen by the people who assign the games; the way to be seen is to attend camps. Officiating is a business, and just like any business, there are associated costs. 

 

As far as the OP goes, is the cost too much?  He will have to make that decision.  I agree with others that if this is nothing but a way to line some pockets, that's wrong.  But, if there is good, quality instruction, and other costs of running the camp justify that level of expense, then I don't see any problem.

[grandslam38]

For those of you who are making statements regarding independent contractor/employee, be very careful.  Each State and the IRS may make a determination based on various factors as to whether or not you are an independent contractor.  Just because the association By-Laws state you are an independent contractor, that does not mean you are an independent contractor.  Just by signing a policy and procedure and "employment" agreement does not make you an independent contractor.  There are many factors that are considered to make a determination whether you are or are not an independent contractor.  I have practiced in this area, and represent corporations, athletic associations as well as umpire associations and advise you that there are many factors to consider.  

[JaxRolo]

For those of you who are making statements regarding independent contractor/employee, be very careful. Each State and the IRS may make a determination based on various factors as to whether or not you are an independent contractor. Just because the association By-Laws state you are an independent contractor, that does not mean you are an independent contractor. Just by signing a policy and procedure and "employment" agreement does not make you an independent contractor. There are many factors that are considered to make a determination whether you are or are not an independent contractor. I have practiced in this area, and represent corporations, athletic associations as well as umpire associations and advise you that there are many factors to consider.

interesting

[RichMSN]

 

[RichMSN]

For those of you who are making statements regarding independent contractor/employee, be very careful.  Each State and the IRS may make a determination based on various factors as to whether or not you are an independent contractor.  Just because the association By-Laws state you are an independent contractor, that does not mean you are an independent contractor.  Just by signing a policy and procedure and "employment" agreement does not make you an independent contractor.  There are many factors that are considered to make a determination whether you are or are not an independent contractor.  I have practiced in this area, and represent corporations, athletic associations as well as umpire associations and advise you that there are many factors to consider.  

 

Exactly.  Just cause people say you're an independent contractor doesn't mean that you are.

 

I work with some people who do football games at the college level and because they work at another system school, the check has taxes withheld.  I think it would be really interesting if one of those people got hurt officiating and applied for worker's compensation.

[Jimurray]

For those of you who are making statements regarding independent contractor/employee, be very careful. Each State and the IRS may make a determination based on various factors as to whether or not you are an independent contractor. Just because the association By-Laws state you are an independent contractor, that does not mean you are an independent contractor. Just by signing a policy and procedure and "employment" agreement does not make you an independent contractor. There are many factors that are considered to make a determination whether you are or are not an independent contractor. I have practiced in this area, and represent corporations, athletic associations as well as umpire associations and advise you that there are many factors to consider.

Exactly. Just cause people say you're an independent contractor doesn't mean that you are.

I work with some people who do football games at the college level and because they work at another system school, the check has taxes withheld. I think it would be really interesting if one of those people got hurt officiating and applied for worker's compensation.

Does their check have FICA withheld.

[RichMSN]

 

 

For those of you who are making statements regarding independent contractor/employee, be very careful. Each State and the IRS may make a determination based on various factors as to whether or not you are an independent contractor. Just because the association By-Laws state you are an independent contractor, that does not mean you are an independent contractor. Just by signing a policy and procedure and "employment" agreement does not make you an independent contractor. There are many factors that are considered to make a determination whether you are or are not an independent contractor. I have practiced in this area, and represent corporations, athletic associations as well as umpire associations and advise you that there are many factors to consider.

Exactly. Just cause people say you're an independent contractor doesn't mean that you are.

I work with some people who do football games at the college level and because they work at another system school, the check has taxes withheld. I think it would be really interesting if one of those people got hurt officiating and applied for worker's compensation.

Does their check have FICA withheld.

 

 

The whole nine yards, just as if they were working their day jobs.  To me, it shows accountants that just don't understand the liability issues.

[MB_Ump]

I do games for a couple of local city rec departments. I had to fill out a huge job application, including background checks by state and federal agencies (even Homeland Security) in order to be hired by the City as an employee. They take out all the normal payroll taxes plus I have to pay into their pension plan. On the plus side, they provide uniforms and pay association dues. They told me they did it this way because their attorneys decided that the way they use sports officials would not pass the IRS's definition of independent contractor. Most of the other groups I officiate for would also have trouble passing in some areas as well.

http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Small-Businesses-%26-Self-Employed/Independent-Contractor-Self-Employed-or-Employee

[noumpere]

 

 

The whole nine yards, just as if they were working their day jobs.  To me, it shows accountants that just don't understand the liability issues.

 

 

Why do you think this is an accountant's issue?  And even if you do, why do you think they don't understand the liability issue (as opposed to understanding it and weighing all the options and deciding that the correct solution is to continue to treat the officials as employees)?

 

(and, no, I am not an accountant nor am I an employee of any college / university)

[Replacematt]

Because the accountant is looking at strictly from a tax-liability perspective and using that to make the decision to pay as an addendum to their regular employee duties. They aren't looking at it with contract or labor laws in perspective.

[DP26]

CA has specific information to try to help.

 

http://www.edd.ca.gov/pdf_pub_ctr/de231aa.pdf

 

So in CA, in reality, we are likely employees if the EDD were to press the issue.  But EDD has other things to worry about.

 

Items which are the trigger in my case (factor numbers)

1.  Cannot arrange my own substitute.  Have to wear Assn logo hat.  Paid whether or not the school pays.

6.  Rate is negoiated by the the assignors and the state, not me.

9.  Have to do certain things, beyond NFHS rules, such as when to arrive, when to call if partner is no show, etc.

13.  There are Assn policies taught.

14.  Have to write EJ reports, and within a certain time frame.

15.  Dress code

 

I am in the payroll business, so I have a good understanding of the issue.  I am willing to take the risk of having to make up withholding if we were forced to be employees by the state.  The Assn is the one with the most risk, as they can be personally liable for all withholdings, even the "employee" part, as well as huge penalties.

 

I do take mitigation measures, such as obtaining my own insurance, working for other groups, taking at least one independant gig a year (shows I do run my umpire work as a business), and so on..

 

If you are currently operating as an IC, all of this is tempered by any prior EDD rulings, which likely favor IC status.  My point it is not a stable issue, so be forewarned and forearmed.  A state can change their rules at the drop of a few bucks (I mean after an election).

[scrounge]

and to all those associations that bar members from working games outside the association, that's one of the big, BIG red flags in the IRS criteria

[Jimurray]

I'm confused. If you ar not paid by the "association, chapter, whatever", but are paid by the "team, school district, league", how do you become an employee?

[JaxRolo]

In our case most schools pay us but some schools pay association then they pay us.

[scrounge]

I'm confused. If you ar not paid by the "association, chapter, whatever", but are paid by the "team, school district, league", how do you become an employee?

 

There are many tests in the IRS link previously posted, only one of which is who pays you. The mere fact that someone else pays you isn't enough to establish IC status. Who controls your work, who evaluates you, do you have the freedom (and have shown the ability) to work outside the assoc, etc. are all tests.

 

In related news, a group of NYC strippers just yesterday were awarded $10.9 MM in back wages over this very issue as the federal judge found they were improperly classified as IC.

[noumpere]

 

 

In related news, a group of NYC strippers just yesterday were awarded $10.9 MM in back wages over this very issue as the federal judge found they were improperly classified as IC.

 

 

I think that belongs in the chest protectors thread.

[ricka56]

In related news, a group of NYC strippers just yesterday were awarded $10.9 MM in back wages over this very issue as the federal judge found they were improperly classified as IC.

 

So, if I met one of these NYC strippers at their place of employment and I offered her a temporary work project (say raking the leaves in my yard), would she be an IC or my employee ?

[MB_Ump]

If you are an independent contractor, wouldn't you need to have a business liscense in every town you work in? Anybody do this?

[noumpere]

If you are an independent contractor, wouldn't you need to have a business liscense in every town you work in? Anybody do this?

No.  No.

 

You would only need a business license if the city / town ordinance required it and I don't know of any that do (but obviously I don't know all).

[Majordave]

Usually business licenses are for places of business that you occupy and work from. Particularly when offering goods or services to the public in general. Most umpire and sports officials as independent contractors don't fit and are thus excluded. I can assure you that some local ordinances and codes are written broadly enough to atrempt to include any business income of any type conducted within their jurisdiction. However, as with most laws, enforcement can be a problem.

If you aren't standing around bragging about how much you're being paid for umpiring or making in general no one will bother you and you can do what your conscience demands when income tax filing time comes around.

And that's all I have to say about that! (Forrest Gump voice)