Expanded Strike Zone for Little League

[Guest Brian Murphy]

I am a little league coach for 10-12 year olds and I have a philosophical difference with the head umpire in our league and I want to get the opinions of those on the boards here. Recently our kid umpires (our league does not use adults for this age contrary to little league rules, but that's ok) stated telling us coaches during the pre-game meeting that "their" strike zone is from the armpits to the tops of the knees and a baseball's width on the inside and outside of the plate. My objection is that they are not enforcing the strike zone according to the rules of the game and they are giving the pitcher an unfair advantage over the hitter. Our league has a sheet of "local rules" and it does NOT say there is an expanded strike zone for this age. I ask why they are not enforcing the rules of the game and I get a BS answer about encouraging kids to swing and that they don't want a "walk fest."

My argument is that

1) the strike zone is clearly defined in the rule book

2) "encouraging" kids to swing is not the umpires job, that's a coaches job to teach the kids strike zone discipline

3) we as coaches are fully capable of removing a pitcher who has walked a few batters and that's not the concern of the umpire

4) an expanded strike zone only encourages kids to swing at more bad pitches, causing mor swinging k's and backwards k's

5) and umpires job is to Officiate the game fairly according to ALL the rules, not most of them

6) umpires cannot unilaterally decide to make up their own rules

Now I am catching hell because I am questioning this "unwritten" expanded strike zone philosophy and all I am asking is for all of our umpires to call the strike zone according to the definition in the rules!! Is this an unreasonable request?

[tbuck18]

The problem with all this interpreatation is that at the highest level of play MLB they do not enforce what they print in their manual for what a strike is, therefore at any level below MLB you run into this issue as a trickle down effect.

[Guest Umpire and Coach]

Tell the coach what you are going to call and do the job! The only people getting ripped off are the kids! The strike zone is armpit to knees and the ball has to catch any of the plate. I coach and upmpire so I expect the umpire to follow the rules. Bad habits are hard to break when the strike zone differs so much game to game. Be honest! If the kid can't pitch strikes then he will have to learn.

[jjb]

I think that once, just for the heck of it, I'd like to call a game exactly how some of these people want me to call it: "by the book". It won't be hard. But I can almost guarantee you that nobody's going to like it. None of these 10 year olds can consistently hit a book rule strike zone, so the result is that the batters will simply stop swinging. (We call it "can'ya ball" - "can'ya throw three strikes before four balls?"). Do you think for a minute that these kids will walk away saying "gee that was fun, let's do that again?" Hell, no. The pitchers won't want to pitch anymore, the batters won't learn how to hit, and nobody's going to compliment me on my knowledge of the book. 

 

You want to teach these kids "strike discipline", aka, don't swing at anything an inch or so outside? Lots of luck with that, hope they can play soccer, because they ain't making the HS team. Sometimes you gotta put the ball in play, and I want a kid that can do that when it's necessary. One of the best "bad ball" hitters in the game was a guy by the name of Pete Rose, and he did pretty well for himself....

 

Personally, I'm letting the pitchers tell me where my zone is: if I've got 2 budding Tanaka's out there, I'll adjust. Otherwise, the games' more fun when the ball's in play, and I'm kinda thinking that we adults are out there to let the kids have fun, aren't we?

[grayhawk]

Tell the coach what you are going to call and do the job! The only people getting ripped off are the kids! The strike zone is armpit to knees and the ball has to catch any of the plate. I coach and upmpire so I expect the umpire to follow the rules. Bad habits are hard to break when the strike zone differs so much game to game. Be honest! If the kid can't pitch strikes then he will have to learn.

 

No.  I am not going to discuss the strike zone with a coach before, during, or after the game.  PERIOD.

[jjb]

Strike zones are like politics and religion: we don't discuss them....

[ricka56]

Tell the coach what you are going to call and do the job! The only people getting ripped off are the kids! The strike zone is armpit to knees and the ball has to catch any of the plate. I coach and upmpire so I expect the umpire to follow the rules. Bad habits are hard to break when the strike zone differs so much game to game. Be honest! If the kid can't pitch strikes then he will have to learn.

 

Bad habits ? You mean like taking hittable pitch after hittable pitch trying to draw a base-on-balls ? Here's a good habit to instill in your kids, swing that 28 inch bat and don't worry about the umpire's KZ.

 

I'm awaiting my weekend assignments, I pray "this guy" isn't my partner.

[immaculate1976]

Guest Brian Murphy

You are a cry baby....sorry its true. Grow up and quit coming on umpire sites to cry cause a umpire called a corner pitch a strike. No one is out to get you or your team just tell your kids to SWING THE BAT!!!! and quit looking to walk.

 

I do everything from 4th grade to high school. In 4th grade you are getting a HUGE ZONE!!!! why? cause I dont want to issue 48 walks. I have never had a coach complain that my zone was too big they love it cause they dont want to watch 48 walks either. Sorry if I am cheating kids out of the game or smashing there dreams of a bases loaded walk.

 

Guest Umpie and Coach

I have a feeling you are Guest Brian Murphy or his brother. If you are not and you really do umpire STOP cause you are making the rest of us look stupid when you explain your zone before the game.

[sdix00]

I can't believe this was only 3 years ago. 

http://www.umpire.org/vb/showthread.php?t=10165

 

"Another example is the strike zone. How, in good conscience, can an umpire call a strike 3 inches off the plate? The rule book is clear. It's not a strike. It is amazing to me that an umpire would not vigilantly defend the strike zone in the book. "

 

Like the man said.  Umpire some games, then come back read the post again. 

[JHSump]

I often find myself silently repeating the @maven mantra, as I prepare to take the plate: "Call more strikes."  And, the related mantra, "There are no borderline pitches."  These thoughts get me in the right frame of mind for all my games.  At any level.

[maven]

I often find myself silently repeating the @maven mantra, as I prepare to take the plate: "Call more strikes."  And, the related mantra, "There are no borderline pitches."  These thoughts get me in the right frame of mind for all my games.  At any level.

 

Here's the latest: "Call every pitch like it's 3-0."

[T-Rav]

 

I often find myself silently repeating the @maven mantra, as I prepare to take the plate: "Call more strikes."  And, the related mantra, "There are no borderline pitches."  These thoughts get me in the right frame of mind for all my games.  At any level.

 

Here's the latest: "Call every pitch like it's 3-0."

 

Amen! Words to live by right there. 

[ricka56]

I often find myself silently repeating the @maven mantra, as I prepare to take the plate: "Call more strikes."  And, the related mantra, "There are no borderline pitches."  These thoughts get me in the right frame of mind for all my games.  At any level.

 

"I never got in trouble calling strikes". Al Alford (1974 CWS, ABUA Umpire Hall of Fame)

[ricka56]

 

Tell the coach what you are going to call and do the job! The only people getting ripped off are the kids! The strike zone is armpit to knees and the ball has to catch any of the plate. I coach and upmpire so I expect the umpire to follow the rules. Bad habits are hard to break when the strike zone differs so much game to game. Be honest! If the kid can't pitch strikes then he will have to learn.

 

Bad habits ? You mean like taking hittable pitch after hittable pitch trying to draw a base-on-balls ? Here's a good habit to instill in your kids, swing that 28 inch bat and don't worry about the umpire's KZ.

 

I'm awaiting my weekend assignments, I pray "this guy" isn't my partner.

 

I did not pray hard enough. He had the dish for 2 games. Both games had 30 minute first half inning. Tried to talk to him about after the first. He knows he's tight and he thinks he's right to work it that way. (said he'll give one inch, but not two).

[JHSump]

 

I often find myself silently repeating the @maven mantra, as I prepare to take the plate: "Call more strikes."  And, the related mantra, "There are no borderline pitches."  These thoughts get me in the right frame of mind for all my games.  At any level.

 

"I never got in trouble calling strikes". Al Alford (1974 CWS, ABUA Umpire Hall of Fame)

 

Recently I've received two comments on my young-kids strike zone...

 

One comment came from a D1 coach, whose kids played in a youth local league I umpire for. He watched some of the games. I would say we were acquaintances. He moved on to another college. His friendly parting words to me: "Keep that zone big!"

 

The other comment came at the end of a 9U travel tournament game the other day. I was PU and called a big zone. Nobody complained about the zone during the game. Coaches did remind their players with two strikes to protect the plate. The game ended in a 4-4 tie after 6 innings (for this pool-play day we were told games should end at six innings, even if in a tie). It was a well-played defensive game with the ball put in play at almost every at-bat. Very few walks. A grandma approached me and my partner as we left the field. She stuck out her hand and said, "I want to congratulate you. That was the worst g#d-dam##d umpiring I have ever seen." I shook her hand, politely said, "Thank you," smiled, and then we continued on our way to the press box.

 

Guess which comment I consider informed and worthy of consideration.

[MPLSMatt]

In fairness, you have to give granny some credit - she did see Honus Wagner play in person. 

 

Did a 10U travel state championship tourney this weekend and was very intentional about my big zone.  My games were consistently the first games done and all I heard from the coaches were "protect the plate" and "you gotta swing at those, he's got a big zone."  The sage advice I got from this site is don't be afraid to go in and out a couple of inches, but don't go up and down too far.  Coaches will all complain about a called strike at chin hight and one in the dirt, you should be able to get away with most anything in between without too much crap as long as it's consistent.  Everyone benefits from more strikes and teams will adjust.  If they don't, you're closer to beer time. 

 

Finally, I did get asked what's a strike at my plate meeting and told the coach, "I don't discuss the strike zone."  He didn't like the answer (I need to come up with a better one - any you guys use?), but he never did say anything about a ball or strike call once the game begun.  

 

For anyone who is newer, please do not follow the above advice of telling coaches what the zone is or even "I'm calling a big zone, get 'em swinging."  This gives them right to say "you said you were calling a big zone" or "you said that the hollow of the knees is a strike."  Don't put yourself in this situation.  DON'T DISCUSS THE STRIKE ZONE  - a lesson I've learned the hard way.  

[ALStripes17]

In fairness, you have to give granny some credit - she did see Honus Wagner play in person.

Did a 10U travel state championship tourney this weekend and was very intentional about my big zone. My games were consistently the first games done and all I heard from the coaches were "protect the plate" and "you gotta swing at those, he's got a big zone." The sage advice I got from this site is don't be afraid to go in and out a couple of inches, but don't go up and down too far. Coaches will all complain about a called strike at chin hight and one in the dirt, you should be able to get away with most anything in between without too much crap as long as it's consistent. Everyone benefits from more strikes and teams will adjust. If they don't, you're closer to beer time.

Finally, I did get asked what's a strike at my plate meeting and told the coach, "I don't discuss the strike zone." He didn't like the answer (I need to come up with a better one - any you guys use?), but he never did say anything about a ball or strike call once the game begun.

For anyone who is newer, please do not follow the above advice of telling coaches what the zone is or even "I'm calling a big zone, get 'em swinging." This gives them right to say "you said you were calling a big zone" or "you said that the hollow of the knees is a strike." Don't put yourself in this situation. DON'T DISCUSS THE STRIKE ZONE - a lesson I've learned the hard way.

I had 1 youth coach ask me that question this year and I simply said (with a smile) "Same as the rule book's, what's yours?" ... actually got a good chuckle from both coaches and my partner for that one

[RichMSN]

I've spent the summer coaching. 7-9 year old girls.

Tight, tight zones. Call. Strikes. Painful for me, the coach, to watch.

Just don't call pitches above the shoulders strikes. I spent weeks getting one kid to stop swinging at pitches above her head and then I get an umpire that calls nose-high strikes...

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

[Dannytheman]

 

Tell the coach what you are going to call and do the job! The only people getting ripped off are the kids! The strike zone is armpit to knees and the ball has to catch any of the plate. I coach and upmpire so I expect the umpire to follow the rules. Bad habits are hard to break when the strike zone differs so much game to game. Be honest! If the kid can't pitch strikes then he will have to learn.

 

No.  I am not going to discuss the strike zone with a coach before, during, or after the game.  PERIOD.

 

But isn't calling Ball Inside, Outside, High and Low discussing your strike zone?

Same thing to me.  If you are explaing your Ball zone, you are discussing the strike zone.  Just saying,!

[grayhawk]

 

 

Tell the coach what you are going to call and do the job! The only people getting ripped off are the kids! The strike zone is armpit to knees and the ball has to catch any of the plate. I coach and upmpire so I expect the umpire to follow the rules. Bad habits are hard to break when the strike zone differs so much game to game. Be honest! If the kid can't pitch strikes then he will have to learn.

 

No.  I am not going to discuss the strike zone with a coach before, during, or after the game.  PERIOD.

 

But isn't calling Ball Inside, Outside, High and Low discussing your strike zone?

Same thing to me.  If you are explaing your Ball zone, you are discussing the strike zone.  Just saying,!

 

 

No, it's not.  Look Danny, I like you because you are a LL guy, but you are way off base on this.  Also, I don't say high or low - they can see those just fine.

[maven]

Are you guys really disagreeing here? "I use it!" "I don't!"

 

It's not a required mechanic, but some guys make it work. We don't need to go to the mat on this one.

[grayhawk]

Are you guys really disagreeing here? "I use it!" "I don't!"

 

It's not a required mechanic, but some guys make it work. We don't need to go to the mat on this one.

 

I don't care if he uses it or not, but he's criticizing me by saying that I am "discussing my strike zone with a coach" by giving location on close in/out pitches before I am asked.  It's an optional mechanic that only works for some.

[maven]

I don't care if he uses it or not, but he's criticizing me by saying that I am "discussing my strike zone with a coach" by giving location on close in/out pitches before I am asked.  It's an optional mechanic that only works for some.

 

He's criticizing you?!? CRITICIZING?!?!? Here, on the internet?

 

The temerity!!!!

 

[umpire_scott]

There is no greater complement to me than hearing "He's called it there all day" or "at least he's consistent".  That means I've accomplished two things:

 

1.  My zone is not too small.

2.  My zone is consistent.

[JHSump]

I know this is an old thread, but here's an update...

I had a 9U tournament game this past weekend. You know my deal if you've read any of this thread: big strike zone, but not outlandish, I called armpits to knees, line to line. It started with the first batter. The pitchers were not throwing hard, so any pitch near the knees that did not hit the dirt was a strike. The coaches encouraged their batters to swing, and to protect the plate with 2 strikes. There were no complaints.

When the game was over the final score was a low 4-1. One coach, in the middle of the game, asked me again for my first name...with a smile. The game took 1:10 for a full 6 innings.

At the end of the game I had quite a few parents tell me they liked my umpiring.

And --- not that this was my goal --- there was not a single walk in the game.

One thing that has not been mentioned so far in this thread: pitchers relax when they realize the zone is not a postage stamp. They pitch better, and actually throw more strikes. Pitchers relax, batters become aggressive, fielders get to field, parents get to cheer. Umpires get to relax too.

[Rich Ives]

Well, these replies prove the point I am trying to make, the strike zone is defined that space "over the plate" between the armpits and the tops of the knees and BretMan, yes I do know how LL defines the zone as I wrote it in my post and CarolinaBlue, the right call casebook is a blog post and an umpires opinion and not official LL policy. It's plain and simple, it's in black and white. The zone is OVER the plate and not a ball width side to side. And there is no such thing as "my zone"... and as I said my only complaint is the fact that the umpire is stating this to us BEFORE the game even starts that's hes basically not going to follow the rules. I never argue balls and strikes during the game. There is a rule book for a reason and if little league baseball really thought the way you all seem to that you should expand the zone, then why don they have an age appropriate rule for the width of the zone? Do the umpires in the LL world series expand the zone? by the way... I have been a LL umpire for 9+ years and I have never imposed anything other then the rule book definition... We all miss pitches here and there, but as a matter of point I do not purposely say I am calling pitches in or out.... So when do you stop expanding your zone then, majors?

If you've read the rule book you'll know that the zone is if any part of the ball touches any part of the strike zone so a ball width off the plate IS a strike.

And there is NO LL rule about not using youth umpires. They do need to have an adult "game coordinator" at games using youth umpires.