Expanded Strike Zone for Little League

[Guest Brian Murphy]

I am a little league coach for 10-12 year olds and I have a philosophical difference with the head umpire in our league and I want to get the opinions of those on the boards here. Recently our kid umpires (our league does not use adults for this age contrary to little league rules, but that's ok) stated telling us coaches during the pre-game meeting that "their" strike zone is from the armpits to the tops of the knees and a baseball's width on the inside and outside of the plate. My objection is that they are not enforcing the strike zone according to the rules of the game and they are giving the pitcher an unfair advantage over the hitter. Our league has a sheet of "local rules" and it does NOT say there is an expanded strike zone for this age. I ask why they are not enforcing the rules of the game and I get a BS answer about encouraging kids to swing and that they don't want a "walk fest."

My argument is that

1) the strike zone is clearly defined in the rule book

2) "encouraging" kids to swing is not the umpires job, that's a coaches job to teach the kids strike zone discipline

3) we as coaches are fully capable of removing a pitcher who has walked a few batters and that's not the concern of the umpire

4) an expanded strike zone only encourages kids to swing at more bad pitches, causing mor swinging k's and backwards k's

5) and umpires job is to Officiate the game fairly according to ALL the rules, not most of them

6) umpires cannot unilaterally decide to make up their own rules

Now I am catching hell because I am questioning this "unwritten" expanded strike zone philosophy and all I am asking is for all of our umpires to call the strike zone according to the definition in the rules!! Is this an unreasonable request?

[HokieUmp]

 

I've had partners at that level, with that skill set, call a zone that tight. It. Is. Awful. For me, for the players, for the parents, for the coaches. Everyone.

So you had to move to Japan just to stop getting assigned with me at Plaza LL . 

 

Good Lord, we're still sending victims umpires THERE?!?  Well, to be fair, the couple times I was at their majors, or whatever, it wasn't bad.  It was the juniors/seniors that was awful.

 

I still recall that kid you kept in the game when we worked together.  That was before you entered your Red-Ass period.

[BigUmpire]

 

"Just call 'em....don't explain 'em"

Bumper sticker.

I think you should start an online bumper sticker store!  You're getting quite a good collection, BigUmpire!  Or, maybe Warren can include these at the UE store.  

When I think of one I print it out on 11X17 paper and post it in our umps room for our young guys.

Got about 25 so far.

Repeated blows to the head by various things makes me think this way!

I have lots more.

[JHSump]

 

 

"Just call 'em....don't explain 'em"

Bumper sticker.

I think you should start an online bumper sticker store!  You're getting quite a good collection, BigUmpire!  Or, maybe Warren can include these at the UE store.  

When I think of one I print it out on 11X17 paper and post it in our umps room for our young guys.

Got about 25 so far.

Repeated blows to the head by various things makes me think this way!

I have lots more.

 

That is actually a pretty good idea!

 

Suggestion: start a post where you give your list so far.  I would be interested in seeing them all.  Really.

[JHSump]

I had a similar experience the other day.  12U Dixie game, but weak teams and weak pitchers.  

 

Game ended 4-3, after a full game (5 and a half, since HT was leading at that point).  There is a "no new inning after 1:45" limit, but the full game took only 1:20.

 

One coach kept telling his players, "Be alert at the plate and be swinging, especially with two strikes.  This umpire has a big strike zone."  But, there were no complaints.  The other coach (losing team) waved as I walked away at the end, and said, "Thank you, Blue."  (No sarcasm apparent.)

 

I called strikes from line to line. Expanded a bit down and a bit up from my travel-ball/HS zone.  Many pitchers were slow and even if caught by the catcher with fingers pointing down, they could be considered strikes as they passed the plate.  Any pitch that bounced or any pitch where catcher touched the dirt, I called it a ball.

Next chapter.

 

Earlier this week I had an even younger age group, 10U, local league Dixie game.  Again solo.  Same big strike zone.  It's not an outlandishly big zone, just bigger than for older guys.

 

Anyway, I lost track of how many punch outs I had.  Again, I was not being outlandish.  The coaches on both sides were not complaining.  They just kept telling their kids to swing the bat.  By the end of the game even the batters that you could tell would never usually swing, were now swinging --- and making contact, getting cheered, running to 1B, etc.

 

Final score was something like 5-1 (I say "something like" because I only asked once near the end, and after that each team scored maybe another run --- but I don't keep track of the score, a story for another thread    ).

 

They played 6 full innings, total time 1:28.

 

Addendum 1: We had a 30 minute break in the bottom of the 4th inning, due to lightning, during which it rained pretty steadily, but not hard enough to ruin the field.  The full time of 1:28 counts only the playing time; I stopped my timer during the 30 minute delay.  Even with the 30 minute delay we got a full game in before it got anywhere near dark.

 

Addendum 2: When I went to check out the field after the 30 minute delay, I accidentally locked my mask in my car (I have two keys, one to open it, one to start it; I took the wrong key).  Had to call the last few innings from behind the mound.  Hahaha!  Not so easy with pitchers lobbing the ball in.  Still no complaints.  I will say this: I think you can sound very commanding belting out those strike calls when facing the dugouts and parents, with no mask blocking your face, on a 60' basepath field!

[RichMSN]

Do Umpires at the LL World Series or Regional's expand the Strike Zone?

I believe that was asked.

The answer to that is, NO.

They don't have to.

They are now Umpiring games with the best players in the World.

Not Lil Johnny who was dropped off at the field for 3 hours of Free Baby Sitting by his Mommy.

Have you ever counted the parents in the stands during some games?

If there are 12 players on a team, there should be at least 12 Adults in the stands on that side of the field, not anything less.

 

I didn't expand the zone at the regional beyond what I'd normally call at the HS and small college level.  

 

But I believe in calling strikes, so I'm sure there would be some that thought I was giving more than usual.  Except I wasn't.

[BigUmpire]

 

"Just call 'em....don't explain 'em"

Bumper sticker.

I think you should start an online bumper sticker store!  You're getting quite a good collection, BigUmpire!  Or, maybe Warren can include these at the UE store.  

 

Glad you noticed. I actually post these in our umps room.

[Guest kylejt]

I'm curious why the OP thought Junior umpire weren't allowed in Little League. They are.

 

If any umpire called a pitch where the bottom of the ball nicked the top of the arm pit, in ANY division, they would last long. But by the book, it's a strike. Trust me, nobody calls it by the book, and doesn't get yelled at.

 

I teach my Junior umpires, who work the 9-11 division, to look for something hittable. They know what do look for, as they're not far removed from that division themselves. As they progress, they learn what the expected strike is, at the level of ball they're calling. And that's the key.

[bam]

I'm curious why the OP thought Junior umpire weren't allowed in Little League. They are.

 

If any umpire called a pitch where the bottom of the ball nicked the top of the arm pit, in ANY division, they would last long. But by the book, it's a strike. Trust me, nobody calls it by the book, and doesn't get yelled at.

 

I teach my Junior umpires, who work the 9-11 division, to look for something hittable. They know what do look for, as they're not far removed from that division themselves. As they progress, they learn what the expected strike is, at the level of ball they're calling. And that's the key.

 

Oh - pul-leez.  A walk is as good as a hit.,  Call the strike zone.  You're doing the little darlings (future major leaguers) a severe disservice by depriving them of acquiring bases based upon their superior strike zone awareness because you want to go home early. 

 

Sincerely,  Rich Ives. 

 

PS - is he as big a dick as he appears, or is he just trolling?  I think he's just a dick,  right?

[BigUmpire]

 

 

 

"Just call 'em....don't explain 'em"

Bumper sticker.

I think you should start an online bumper sticker store!  You're getting quite a good collection, BigUmpire!  Or, maybe Warren can include these at the UE store.  

When I think of one I print it out on 11X17 paper and post it in our umps room for our young guys.

Got about 25 so far.

Repeated blows to the head by various things makes me think this way!

I have lots more.

 

That is actually a pretty good idea!

 

Suggestion: start a post where you give your list so far.  I would be interested in seeing them all.  Really.

 

Might do this.

[basejester]

If any umpire called a pitch where the bottom of the ball nicked the top of the arm pit, in ANY division, they would last long. But by the book, it's a strike. Trust me, nobody calls it by the book, and doesn't get yelled at.

I attempt to call it by the book. I instruct the other umpires to call it by the book.

It went pretty quickly from the coaches yelling, to the coaches saying, 'That's been a strike day.', to the coaches saying, 'That's been a strike all year'.

There are strikes that are somewhat difficult to hit. Balls hit over the fence are difficult to catch. What's the problem?

[JHSump]

Chapter 3.

 

Tried an experiment at my last local 9-10 Dixie game, just the other day.

 

The two teams were from the same town.  It was the last game of the season.  At the plate meeting the managers (who know each other well) both say to each other something like, "I'm pitching guys who never pitched in the lives.  Just for fun.  If there are too many walks, I'll put in a real pitcher."  Now, I know I'm not supposed to discuss my strike zone with them.  But --- here's the experiment --- I say, "I'll help you guys out. My strike zone will be big.  Between the lines, armpits to just below the knees." 

 

(I proceeded to call exactly the same big zone I was calling the night before --- with one of these teams --- and the week before --- with the other team.  So, the *only* difference is that I said I was using a big strike zone.)

 

The managers leave the plate meeting and proceed to tell their teams, "It's gonna be a big strike zone tonight.  Swing the bats.  Don't look for a walk."  After I called the first pitch at the armpits, just off the corner a strike, a mom in the stands goes, "What!?"  The manager in the 3B coach's box says, "Come on, swing!  I said it was going to be a big strike zone."  Between innings he explains that to mom (the stands I close enough I can hear them breathing haha).

 

After that first at bat, every kid is swinging away from the get go.  Now, some kids appear to have never thought about swinging instead of taking, so the ball is 3 feet outside and this one kid swings at it while bailing out! I would have called that pitch a ball, but he has no clue, apparently.  He strikes out swinging each time up, unfortunately for him.

 

But, at least a few kids that I have never seen swing before get hits!  Some extra base hits!  The parents are beside themselves with joy --- mind you this is the last game of the season.

 

There were some walks of course.  But both teams never used a "real pitcher."  And we never reached the  7-run per inning limit (a local rule.)

 

Final score 15-13.  Six full innings in under the 1:45 time limit.

 

Moral: call a big strike zone at the low youth levels.  Everyone likes the hitting.  Some kids do much better than it appears they expected they would ever do.  It *may* even possible to simply slip in a comment about calling a big strike zone at the plate meeting,  (Although I am not so sure one sure define its limits like I did in this game.)  The managers will actually instruct their players to swing swing swing.

 

[johnnyg08]

I also want to add that in the LLWS you are seeing pitching we generally do not see at 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 year old regular season games.

It is not rare for me to have balls flying wayyyyy over my head, behind the batter, and hitting the ground 8 to 10 feet in front of the plate.

 

I get a huge kick out of the pitcher who wants the semi close strike after he throws like 9 balls that are only in the zip code, yet no where near the plate. The young boys occasionally make faces and show signs of frustration. I have told some AFTER THE GAME how they would feel if I did that when the ball goes over my head or flys behind the batter? 

 

I promise them when they throw strikes, I will call strikes.

 

 

Yeah, when the baseball isn't very good, this is what you get.  I had this on Thursday.  To them, I was the worst umpire they've ever seen.  F1 throws three 57 foot curveballs then a border fastball on the inside corner when F2 was set up outside, I ball it.  F2 goes, "where was that?"  

 

I just shake my head at the stupidity.  F2 turns his head, and some idiot parent in the stands goes "he (F2) asks you, you have to answer him."  Laugh out Loud!

[johnnyg08]

Chapter 3.

 

Tried an experiment at my last local 9-10 Dixie game, just the other day.

 

The two teams were from the same town.  It was the last game of the season.  At the plate meeting the managers (who know each other well) both say to each other something like, "I'm pitching guys who never pitched in the lives.  Just for fun.  If there are too many walks, I'll put in a real pitcher."  Now, I know I'm not supposed to discuss my strike zone with them.  But --- here's the experiment --- I say, "I'll help you guys out. My strike zone will be big.  Between the lines, armpits to just below the knees." 

 

(I proceeded to call exactly the same big zone I was calling the night before --- with one of these teams --- and the week before --- with the other team.  So, the *only* difference is that I said I was using a big strike zone.)

 

The managers leave the plate meeting and proceed to tell their teams, "It's gonna be a big strike zone tonight.  Swing the bats.  Don't look for a walk."  After I called the first pitch at the armpits, just off the corner a strike, a mom in the stands goes, "What!?"  The manager in the 3B coach's box says, "Come on, swing!  I said it was going to be a big strike zone."  Between innings he explains that to mom (the stands I close enough I can hear them breathing haha).

 

After that first at bat, every kid is swinging away from the get go.  Now, some kids appear to have never thought about swinging instead of taking, so the ball is 3 feet outside and this one kid swings at it while bailing out! I would have called that pitch a ball, but he has no clue, apparently.  He strikes out swinging each time up, unfortunately for him.

 

But, at least a few kids that I have never seen swing before get hits!  Some extra base hits!  The parents are beside themselves with joy --- mind you this is the last game of the season.

 

There were some walks of course.  But both teams never used a "real pitcher."  And we never reached the  7-run per inning limit (a local rule.)

 

Final score 15-13.  Six full innings in under the 1:45 time limit.

 

Moral: call a big strike zone at the low youth levels.  Everyone likes the hitting.  Some kids do much better than it appears they expected they would ever do.  It *may* even possible to simply slip in a comment about calling a big strike zone at the plate meeting,  (Although I am not so sure one sure define its limits like I did in this game.)  The managers will actually instruct their players to swing swing swing.

 

 

 

You can do what works for you.  I don't discuss how I'm going to call my zone at the plate meeting at any level.  Ever.  If they're watching the game, they should have my zone figured out.  If they're going to take border pitches, it's going to be a long day for the offense.  Baseball is a game of adjustments.  

[Rich Ives]

In LL age ball, if the pitch is completely inside the BB line it's a strike given that the line is 4" from the plate and the ball is 3" in diameter.

 

In LL the book strike zone is armpits ot knees.

 

Be careful making it bigger.  Small kids - short arms  - short bats.  They cannot hit the outside pitch. They can't physically reach it.

 

Any coach majors and up who has his kids chasing pitches is doing them a severe disservice.

[RichMSN]

In LL age ball, if the pitch is completely inside the BB line it's a strike given that the line is 4" from the plate and the ball is 3" in diameter.

 

In LL the book strike zone is armpits ot knees.

 

Be careful making it bigger.  Small kids - short arms  - short bats.  They cannot hit the outside pitch. They can't physically reach it.

 

Any coach majors and up who has his kids chasing pitches is doing them a severe disservice.

 

When I worked the plate at the regional last year (I did 3 plates, 2 during pool play and the championship), I called the exact same strike zone as I call during HS and college baseball.  I might have called a marginally higher strike -- maybe -- but maybe not.  These kids were throwing hard and my zone is what it is -- if it's above the kid's hands, I'm likely calling it a ball -- it's what I always do.

 

When our districts start in a couple of weeks, my zone will likely be a bit bigger.  Not by much.

 

In all honesty, I have no idea how my zone would adjust if I was working a lot of local Little League games -- I'm a volunteer, but I don't work a whole lot of LL games until the district tournaments start.  I can't imagine calling my usual HS/college zone in a local game, though, with pitchers who have a hard time hitting that zone.  

 

There's gotta be some balance between pace of play and fun for the kids and taking the bat out of a kid's hands, though.

[RichMSN]

 

Chapter 3.

 

Tried an experiment at my last local 9-10 Dixie game, just the other day.

 

The two teams were from the same town.  It was the last game of the season.  At the plate meeting the managers (who know each other well) both say to each other something like, "I'm pitching guys who never pitched in the lives.  Just for fun.  If there are too many walks, I'll put in a real pitcher."  Now, I know I'm not supposed to discuss my strike zone with them.  But --- here's the experiment --- I say, "I'll help you guys out. My strike zone will be big.  Between the lines, armpits to just below the knees." 

 

(I proceeded to call exactly the same big zone I was calling the night before --- with one of these teams --- and the week before --- with the other team.  So, the *only* difference is that I said I was using a big strike zone.)

 

The managers leave the plate meeting and proceed to tell their teams, "It's gonna be a big strike zone tonight.  Swing the bats.  Don't look for a walk."  After I called the first pitch at the armpits, just off the corner a strike, a mom in the stands goes, "What!?"  The manager in the 3B coach's box says, "Come on, swing!  I said it was going to be a big strike zone."  Between innings he explains that to mom (the stands I close enough I can hear them breathing haha).

 

After that first at bat, every kid is swinging away from the get go.  Now, some kids appear to have never thought about swinging instead of taking, so the ball is 3 feet outside and this one kid swings at it while bailing out! I would have called that pitch a ball, but he has no clue, apparently.  He strikes out swinging each time up, unfortunately for him.

 

But, at least a few kids that I have never seen swing before get hits!  Some extra base hits!  The parents are beside themselves with joy --- mind you this is the last game of the season.

 

There were some walks of course.  But both teams never used a "real pitcher."  And we never reached the  7-run per inning limit (a local rule.)

 

Final score 15-13.  Six full innings in under the 1:45 time limit.

 

Moral: call a big strike zone at the low youth levels.  Everyone likes the hitting.  Some kids do much better than it appears they expected they would ever do.  It *may* even possible to simply slip in a comment about calling a big strike zone at the plate meeting,  (Although I am not so sure one sure define its limits like I did in this game.)  The managers will actually instruct their players to swing swing swing.

 

 

 

You can do what works for you.  I don't discuss how I'm going to call my zone at the plate meeting at any level.  Ever.  If they're watching the game, they should have my zone figured out.  If they're going to take border pitches, it's going to be a long day for the offense.  Baseball is a game of adjustments.  

 

 

Me either.  

 

Quite frankly I cringe when I hear clinicians telling umpires to call "2 balls out" or whatever other instruction they give.  Invariably the student will go back and tell others this training, and it makes us look bad, IMO.  If I was to call a pitch like that a strike, I sure am not going to describe that to anyone in words.

[kylejt]

I've had LL guys, who've done championship games on ESPN, tell me to call two balls on either side of the plate. Call it, with no other consideration, or circumstance. Sorry fellas, not happening.

 

Again, that armpit shot is only for the little guys (9-10). In Majors above, you'll get run out of down calling strikes that high, as you should. The higher the level, and especially during any tourney play, that's not the expected strike, which is what every umpire needs to learn.

[RichMSN]

I've had LL guys, who've done championship games on ESPN, tell me to call two balls on either side of the plate. Call it, with no other consideration, or circumstance. Sorry fellas, not happening.

 

Again, that armpit shot is only for the little guys (9-10). In Majors above, you'll get run out of down calling strikes that high, as you should. The higher the level, and especially during any tourney play, that's not the expected strike, which is what every umpire needs to learn.

 

Well, I guess I can say I'm part of that ESPN "club," and I would never, ever give that training.  I really think it's up to the umpire to find his zone with the encouragement to call strikes early and often.  But X balls wide?  No, sorry, not escaping my lips.

[SoCal Lurker]

 

 

Chapter 3.

 

Tried an experiment at my last local 9-10 Dixie game, just the other day.

 

The two teams were from the same town.  It was the last game of the season.  At the plate meeting the managers (who know each other well) both say to each other something like, "I'm pitching guys who never pitched in the lives.  Just for fun.  If there are too many walks, I'll put in a real pitcher."  Now, I know I'm not supposed to discuss my strike zone with them.  But --- here's the experiment --- I say, "I'll help you guys out. My strike zone will be big.  Between the lines, armpits to just below the knees." 

 

(I proceeded to call exactly the same big zone I was calling the night before --- with one of these teams --- and the week before --- with the other team.  So, the *only* difference is that I said I was using a big strike zone.)

 

The managers leave the plate meeting and proceed to tell their teams, "It's gonna be a big strike zone tonight.  Swing the bats.  Don't look for a walk."  After I called the first pitch at the armpits, just off the corner a strike, a mom in the stands goes, "What!?"  The manager in the 3B coach's box says, "Come on, swing!  I said it was going to be a big strike zone."  Between innings he explains that to mom (the stands I close enough I can hear them breathing haha).

 

After that first at bat, every kid is swinging away from the get go.  Now, some kids appear to have never thought about swinging instead of taking, so the ball is 3 feet outside and this one kid swings at it while bailing out! I would have called that pitch a ball, but he has no clue, apparently.  He strikes out swinging each time up, unfortunately for him.

 

But, at least a few kids that I have never seen swing before get hits!  Some extra base hits!  The parents are beside themselves with joy --- mind you this is the last game of the season.

 

There were some walks of course.  But both teams never used a "real pitcher."  And we never reached the  7-run per inning limit (a local rule.)

 

Final score 15-13.  Six full innings in under the 1:45 time limit.

 

Moral: call a big strike zone at the low youth levels.  Everyone likes the hitting.  Some kids do much better than it appears they expected they would ever do.  It *may* even possible to simply slip in a comment about calling a big strike zone at the plate meeting,  (Although I am not so sure one sure define its limits like I did in this game.)  The managers will actually instruct their players to swing swing swing.

 

 

 

You can do what works for you.  I don't discuss how I'm going to call my zone at the plate meeting at any level.  Ever.  If they're watching the game, they should have my zone figured out.  If they're going to take border pitches, it's going to be a long day for the offense.  Baseball is a game of adjustments.  

 

 

Me either.  

 

Quite frankly I cringe when I hear clinicians telling umpires to call "2 balls out" or whatever other instruction they give.  Invariably the student will go back and tell others this training, and it makes us look bad, IMO.  If I was to call a pitch like that a strike, I sure am not going to describe that to anyone in words.

 

 

I wonder if they really wan that to be a strike, of if they feel that newbies always squeeze the zone, so if they instruct this way they think the newbies get to the right place once they squeeze?

[RichMSN]

 

 

 

Chapter 3.

 

Tried an experiment at my last local 9-10 Dixie game, just the other day.

 

The two teams were from the same town.  It was the last game of the season.  At the plate meeting the managers (who know each other well) both say to each other something like, "I'm pitching guys who never pitched in the lives.  Just for fun.  If there are too many walks, I'll put in a real pitcher."  Now, I know I'm not supposed to discuss my strike zone with them.  But --- here's the experiment --- I say, "I'll help you guys out. My strike zone will be big.  Between the lines, armpits to just below the knees." 

 

(I proceeded to call exactly the same big zone I was calling the night before --- with one of these teams --- and the week before --- with the other team.  So, the *only* difference is that I said I was using a big strike zone.)

 

The managers leave the plate meeting and proceed to tell their teams, "It's gonna be a big strike zone tonight.  Swing the bats.  Don't look for a walk."  After I called the first pitch at the armpits, just off the corner a strike, a mom in the stands goes, "What!?"  The manager in the 3B coach's box says, "Come on, swing!  I said it was going to be a big strike zone."  Between innings he explains that to mom (the stands I close enough I can hear them breathing haha).

 

After that first at bat, every kid is swinging away from the get go.  Now, some kids appear to have never thought about swinging instead of taking, so the ball is 3 feet outside and this one kid swings at it while bailing out! I would have called that pitch a ball, but he has no clue, apparently.  He strikes out swinging each time up, unfortunately for him.

 

But, at least a few kids that I have never seen swing before get hits!  Some extra base hits!  The parents are beside themselves with joy --- mind you this is the last game of the season.

 

There were some walks of course.  But both teams never used a "real pitcher."  And we never reached the  7-run per inning limit (a local rule.)

 

Final score 15-13.  Six full innings in under the 1:45 time limit.

 

Moral: call a big strike zone at the low youth levels.  Everyone likes the hitting.  Some kids do much better than it appears they expected they would ever do.  It *may* even possible to simply slip in a comment about calling a big strike zone at the plate meeting,  (Although I am not so sure one sure define its limits like I did in this game.)  The managers will actually instruct their players to swing swing swing.

 

 

 

You can do what works for you.  I don't discuss how I'm going to call my zone at the plate meeting at any level.  Ever.  If they're watching the game, they should have my zone figured out.  If they're going to take border pitches, it's going to be a long day for the offense.  Baseball is a game of adjustments.  

 

 

Me either.  

 

Quite frankly I cringe when I hear clinicians telling umpires to call "2 balls out" or whatever other instruction they give.  Invariably the student will go back and tell others this training, and it makes us look bad, IMO.  If I was to call a pitch like that a strike, I sure am not going to describe that to anyone in words.

 

 

I wonder if they really wan that to be a strike, of if they feel that newbies always squeeze the zone, so if they instruct this way they think the newbies get to the right place once they squeeze?

 

 

Don't know, but I just hate when that's mentioned.  Likewise when the old canard "strikes lead to outs and outs lead to paychecks" come from a clinic, I cringe.

 

I think it's better to have an umpire get in the cage with a vet and have him call pitches -- when it's close enough to be a strike and the umpire calls it a ball, correct him then.

[mstaylor]

I have always been stingy inside. To be honest the younger the kids the stingier I am. If some part of the ball doesn't touch the plate, I don't a strike. In my mind giving strikes inside, you are making them hit off the handle and you will get guys hit. As they get older and more in control of their pitches, the less likely they will hit batters. 

[RichMSN]

I have always been stingy inside. To be honest the younger the kids the stingier I am. If some part of the ball doesn't touch the plate, I don't a strike. In my mind giving strikes inside, you are making them hit off the handle and you will get guys hit. As they get older and more in control of their pitches, the less likely they will hit batters. 

 

We rarely disagree, but we do here.  I call strikes just as aggressively inside -- maybe the batters will back up a bit and not squeeze out the slot.

 

Eh, can't agree on *every*thing, can we?

[mstaylor]

Absolutely, but by the same token I will not squeeze the inside if he crowds the plate. I will call the plate the same and let the catcher know that him crowding is not affecting that strike. I had a kid, now a varsity coach, that would crowd enough that his hands were in the zone. I would call a strike under his hands and he would complain it almost hit him. My answer was look where you are standing. He was well aware what I was calling because he was the catcher. 

[Guest ax123man]

There are a few flaws with the umpires side here:

Umpires says things like "that won't work" or "there's no way I'm not going to call a wide zone". But then all umpires always call a wide zone, so you have no idea what would happen if you didn't. You only assume you do. We have a half dozen kids in our league who can hit that spot 80% of the time. They also have a change and curve. We won our ll district game against a good hitting team 10-0 in 5. Pitcher pitched a perfect game. Note that one of your justifications is that a wide zone makes for a more exciting game. Note also "exciting" in baseball is subjective. The rules of baseball should be objective.

You all justify this by saying that's just the way it is. Most of the discussion above is this way. "That's the way it is - might as well get used to it.". That's hardly a well reasoned, rational debate.

Have you ever considered that this encourages sloppy pitching? You can't use the "aggressive hitting" argument without introducing discussion around sloppy pitching. It's the other side of this "coin". Our league calls a huge strike zone. There's an area nearby that we don't play until playoffs that calls it tighter. They routinely have better pitching AND hitting. Not surprising. It's common sense.

What's happening here is pretty simple. If umpires had to accept they were wrong about this, they'd have to swallow there pride and admit they've been doing it wrong since the dawn of time. That's not going to happen. Human nature.

play ball! (just use a nice long bat for those two strike pitches)
 

[basejester]

"Coaches, I have a wide fair zone. Nobody likes a foul ball fest. The kids like to run bases and play defense. Hits within two balls from the line are fair. Play ball!"