Signaling your partner

[Forest Ump]

I knew about signaling IFF and timing plays back then and that's about it. So my hats off to you.

Time play

Correct. Thanks

That's what we are suppose to call these plays. It's picking boogers but it is correct.

[mstaylor]

I have only called an IFF inproperly, read wrong time, but since I always wipe it off. It has preobably fifteen years ago that I pulled that blunder but I never want to do it again. Almost thirty years ago I turned too fast on a steal at second and almost took a ball in the back of the head. I always think about that when I turn, never have done it again but I never forgotten that mistake.

[mstaylor]

The time play is like offside in soccer. Many says offsides which is incorrect, offsides is in football. :)

[AZump78]

I knew about signaling IFF and timing plays back then and that's about it. So my hats off to you.

Time play

Correct. Thanks

That's what we are suppose to call these plays. It's picking boogers but it is correct.

It may be splitting hairs, but I think using the correct terminology is important, since we are supposed to be the authority of such things.

[mstaylor]

It's like correcting obstruction and interference. We are supposed to know so we should show it.

[catsbackr]

I hardly use the Time play signal. -- Pointing to your left wrist like your pointing to a watch that BETTER NOT be there---

It is when you have 2 outs and RISP. If the 3rd out is not a force, the PU must be aware to note if the third out occurred first or the run scored.

Not to be nit picky, but you can have a time play with less than 2 outs.

As far as signals go, use them if you want to or not. You and your partner need to be on the same page as far as coverages and rotations go. If you can do it without signals, more power to you.

Watch college umpires. They are consistent in the signals they give and are very low key in doing it. They use them for a reason.

I would be very careful about discouraging the use of signals on this site, though.

[LMSANS]

I knew about signaling IFF and timing plays back then and that's about it. So my hats off to you.

Time play

Can you explain the difference?

Maybe, please clarify what you'd like me to explain.

timing play & time play

[johnnyg08]

I know that, but are you asking for the difference? The proper terminology is "time play" in baseball.

[mstaylor]

I hardly use the Time play signal. -- Pointing to your left wrist like your pointing to a watch that BETTER NOT be there---

It is when you have 2 outs and RISP. If the 3rd out is not a force, the PU must be aware to note if the third out occurred first or the run scored.

Not to be nit picky, but you can have a time play with less than 2 outs.

As far as signals go, use them if you want to or not. You and your partner need to be on the same page as far as coverages and rotations go. If you can do it without signals, more power to you.

Watch college umpires. They are consistent in the signals they give and are very low key in doing it. They use them for a reason.

I would be very careful about discouraging the use of signals on this site, though.

I certainly don't think that signally is bad, I just don't respond other than nodding for most. Some guys use less than others, signals are there to remind, if you can work without most of them fine. If you feel more comfortable with more, go for it. As long as both know what they mean use them. I had a partner that looked like he was working the deck of an aircraft carrier, had all kinds of stuff that meant nothing to me. I would nod and then do what I knew to do.

[Umpire in Chief]

@catsbaker -- Indeed you can have a timing play with less than 2 outs

The important thing is to:

1. Just communicate period
   
2. Make sure you know your signals
   

Story time--

I worked with HokieUmp in one of his first games in the US since returning from Australia. At some point in the game we have an IFF situation. He places his right hand over his heart, like were going to have the Pledge. I was lost but signal our method of touching the brim of my hat, then hitting my fists together and pointing to third. We were not on the same page. We joked he was speaking Australian and I was speaking American. We'd never seen each others signals before.

Apparently placing your right hand over your heart is the way they signal an IFF situation to each other down under.

[ukce1861]

Apparently placing your right hand over your heart is the way they signal an IFF situation to each other down under.

I've worked with a number of guys who use that method, among others. There are at least 4 methods I've seen to signal IFF, so I make sure to cover that in my pregame.

[LMSANS]

I know that, but are you asking for the difference? The proper terminology is "time play" in baseball.

And all I'm asking is what is the difference? I cannot find a reference to either term in the NFHS manual or the OBR.

I'm not trying to be difficult. I want to understand. :question1:

[Kevin Finnerty]

The difference is, one is correct, and the other is incorrect.

The play is called according to the exact time the out on the bases is recorded, respective to the exact time the runner touches the plate.

[LMSANS]

The difference is, one is correct, and the other is incorrect.

The play is called according to the exact time the out on the bases is recorded, respective to the exact time the runner touches the plate.

Is there some other authority that says what is correct? Kevin is strong on opinions and a little weak on facts.

[hckyosgood30]

LMSANS think of a timing play as a sliding glass door. I say glass door because you can still see through it and there's the rub. But I degress, now as soon the the 3rd out is rendered the door shuts immediately, or if on proper appeal the runner hadn't obtained a base before the runner touched home. Now if the runner makes it through the door before the out/touch on proper appeal he scores, if not then no run scores. That is the reason we as partners must always know and be conscious of the runner/runners and the status of the outs. And if you watch some plays they are truly bangers of timing.

[catsbackr]

This is kind of an over-simplification of a time play. Certain criteria have to be satisfied before a run can score. We're kind of getting away from the original topic, signals.

[LMSANS]

LMSANS think of a timing play as a sliding glass door. I say glass door because you can still see through it and there's the rub. But I degress, now as soon the the 3rd out is rendered the door shuts immediately. Now if the runner makes it through the door before the out he scores, if not then no run scores. That is the reason we as partners must always know and be conscious of the runner/runners and the status of the outs. And if you watch some plays they are truly bangers of timing.

Thanks Hckyosgood30. I know what the rule & situation is. I'm trying to understand why time play is wrong?

[hckyosgood30]

Difference is terminology. "timing" is an umpires proper use of eyes on a given play. a "time" play talks about a single window of time for something to happen (i.e. score/no score)

[UmpTTS43]

Correct terminology is "time play".

[mstaylor]

The hand to the chest was a very common signal for IFF for years. PBUC came up with the touching the brim probably 12 or 13 years ago.

[Replacematt]

However, I have worked with guys when I'm on the pads that I have to turn and ask them what they got on a play at 3rd. They didn't move with a runner on 1st with a ball to the outfield.

As BU, you don't ask your PU what they have at third--if you didn't hear them tell you they have third, it's your call.

[johnnyg08]

The difference is, one is correct, and the other is incorrect.

The play is called according to the exact time the out on the bases is recorded, respective to the exact time the runner touches the plate.

Is there some other authority that says what is correct? Kevin is strong on opinions and a little weak on facts.

What difference does it make...do you need to hear one of the simplest terms in the umpiring world from Jim Evans to believe it? Jim will tell you the same thing. It is a "time" play.

[LMSANS]

The difference is, one is correct, and the other is incorrect.

The play is called according to the exact time the out on the bases is recorded, respective to the exact time the runner touches the plate.

Is there some other authority that says what is correct? Kevin is strong on opinions and a little weak on facts.

What difference does it make...do you need to hear one of the simplest terms in the umpiring world from Jim Evans to believe it? Jim will tell you the same thing. It is a "time" play.

What difference does it make? None! However, I don't like to always accept things just because some guy says they are so. This site is filled with comments about understanding the whys behind the rules, and mechanics are constantly questioned because people don't know why someone came up with that mechanic. Usually, once it is explained, there is understanding, not necessarily agreement. That's all that I am trying to do.

Personal opinion does not explain why. And if it is an opinion, it should be an authoritative opinion. To my knowledge, no recognized authority answered my question.

I was finally able to get to my "Maximizing The Two Umpire System" and in there the situation is referred to as a Time Play. I always believed it and still do, but I guess it will be one of those things like water is wet. Nobody knows why.

[johnnyg08]

There aren't always "whys" behind proper grammar either...but there's a right way to speak and a wrong way to speak. You can speak the right way and sound intelligent or you can speak the wrong way and have to prove otherwise that you (or a person) is intelligent.

[Thunderheads]

The difference is, one is correct, and the other is incorrect.

The play is called according to the exact time the out on the bases is recorded, respective to the exact time the runner touches the plate.

Is there some other authority that says what is correct? Kevin is strong on opinions and a little weak on facts.

What difference does it make...do you need to hear one of the simplest terms in the umpiring world from Jim Evans to believe it? Jim will tell you the same thing. It is a "time" play.

What difference does it make? None! However, I don't like to always accept things just because some guy says they are so. This site is filled with comments about understanding the whys behind the rules, and mechanics are constantly questioned because people don't know why someone came up with that mechanic. Usually, once it is explained, there is understanding, not necessarily agreement. That's all that I am trying to do.

Personal opinion does not explain why. And if it is an opinion, it should be an authoritative opinion. To my knowledge, no recognized authority answered my question.

I was finally able to get to my "Maximizing The Two Umpire System" and in there the situation is referred to as a Time Play. I always believed it and still do, but I guess it will be one of those things like water is wet. Nobody knows why.

Larry,

It was explained.

"timing" for an umpire is just that, ...your timing on a call, ...too fast, too slow, etc...

"time play" refers to the 'time' and out is recorded according to the 'time' in which the plate is touched.

But again, I'm not a "recognized authority" ? But, who is? And more to it, ....why bother coming here if no is a recognized authority?

Am I missing something?