Interference or Nothing

[Velho]

[noumpere]

INT

[JonnyCat]

Yes, I have INT on the batter.

[MadMax]

1 hour ago, JonnyCat said:

Yes, I have INT on the batter.

Right, but are we calling the Batter out (and R3 back to 3B)? Or R3 (and Batter continues)?

[eddieq]

15 minutes ago, MadMax said:

Right, but are we calling the Batter out (and R3 back to 3B)? Or R3 (and Batter continues)?

Ok, I'm a softball guy where we would call the batter out on INT and send the runner(s) back.  Is this called differently in the little ball/big field game?

[jimurrayalterego]

29 minutes ago, MadMax said:

Right, but are we calling the Batter out (and R3 back to 3B)? Or R3 (and Batter continues)?

Good question. We don't have BI, we have a member of the team at bat failing to vacate and hindering the pitcher. R3 out other runners return. 6.01(b)"...............................................If a member of the team at bat (other than a runner) hinders a fielder’s attempt to field a thrown ball, the ball is dead, the runner on whom the play is being made shall be declared out and all runners return to the last legally occupied base at the time of the interference."

 

[Velho]

13 minutes ago, jimurrayalterego said:

49 minutes ago, MadMax said:

Right, but are we calling the Batter out (and R3 back to 3B)? Or R3 (and Batter continues)?

Good question. We don't have BI, we have a member of the team at bat failing to vacate and hindering the pitcher. R3 out other runners return. 6.01(b)

What's the distinction you're using to invoke 6.01(b) vs 5.09(b)(8) / 6.01(a)(3)?

[Velho]

52 minutes ago, eddieq said:

Ok, I'm a softball guy where we would call the batter out on INT and send the runner(s) back.  Is this called differently in the little ball/big field game?

What ruleset?

NCAA has the same as all baseball rulesets: "11.20.2 Exceptions: (1) If a base runner is advancing to home plate and there are fewer than two outs, the base runner, instead of the batter, is out."

USA rulebook is difficult to navigate and I can't find anything one way or the other. I don't have NFHS.

 

[jimurrayalterego]

16 minutes ago, Velho said:

What's the distinction you're using to invoke 6.01(b) vs 5.09(b)(8) / 6.01(a)(3)?

I use "at home base" as the location where a batter would be guilty of BI. Others argue that any hindrance of "a play at home base" would be BI. 

[MadMax]

51 minutes ago, jimurrayalterego said:

we have a member of the team at bat failing to vacate and hindering the pitcher. R3 out other runners return.

Oo, I like this perspective. 

Isn't there a provision or component to INT regarding INT by a "member of the teat at bat", ie. base coaches? With R1, INT by the BC (either) results in Batter being called out, Runners return (paraphrased, IIRC). However, with R3, INT by the BC (3BC specifically?) results in R3 being called Out? Yes? Is that how I remember it? 

Then again, if I remember correctly, there's a provision for squeeze plays, with BI... that R3 is specifically called Out, and Batter continues, as punishment and prevention for attempting to score R3 again. Yes?

[Velho]

1 hour ago, MadMax said:

Then again, if I remember correctly, there's a provision for squeeze plays, with BI... that R3 is specifically called Out, and Batter continues, as punishment and prevention for attempting to score R3 again. Yes?

Yes. Believe it so much they list it twice:

5.09(b)(8) Any runner is out when he attempts to score on a play in which the batter interferes with the play at home base before two are out. With two out, the interference puts the batter out and no score counts;

6.01 (a)(3) Before two are out and a runner on third base, the batter hinders a fielder in making a play at home base; the runner is out;

 

[MadMax]

Okay... Good! 

You (general collective "you") / We have to know this ruling, cold. Implicitly. Backwards and forwards.

2 hours ago, Velho said:

5.09(b)(8) Any runner is out when he attempts to score on a play in which the batter interferes with the play at home base before two are out. With two out, the interference puts the batter out and no score counts;

6.01 (a)(3) Before two are out and a runner on third base, the batter hinders a fielder in making a play at home base; the runner is out;

Why? 

Watch the video clip again. Yes, the context is young kids playing baseball, and from the size disparity, likely 11U, maybe 12U. Absent the PU missing this (which he obviously did), if the PU doesn't rule on this in a direct, decisive, definitive manner, there will be bedlam. The only way through this is with conviction-of-call, and citing the rule, virtually verbatim. 

No daddy-coach, local hire, or even small travel/academy coach knows this/these rule(s), and even if they're aware of it, they don't know the particulars. 

[grayhawk]

2 hours ago, MadMax said:

Absent the PU missing this (which he obviously did), if the PU doesn't rule on this in a direct, decisive, definitive manner, there will be bedlam. The only way through this is with conviction-of-call, and citing the rule, virtually verbatim. 

This is clearly a volunteer umpire, and none of the above is going to happen. C'est la vie!

[Richvee]

12 minutes ago, grayhawk said:

This is clearly a volunteer umpire, and none of the above is going to happen. C'est la vie!

Except the bedlam part. 

[dumbdumb]

batter did not do this by design, nor was it premeditated or intentional. by trying to do the right thing and get out of the way, he actually gets in the way and commits interference.

[BigBlue4u]

12 hours ago, Velho said:

Looks like I am in the minority here.  But I've got nothing.  First, who created the problem?  Second, the batter made a legitimate effort to get out of the way of a play at the plate. Third, even if the batter was in the way of the pitcher, it is unlikely a play could have been made on the runner. Bottom line, I'm not going to pull one out of my you know what to bail out a miscue by the offense. For the scorekeepers in the midst, score the run on a wild pitch.

[eddieq]

19 hours ago, Velho said:

What ruleset?

NCAA has the same as all baseball rulesets: "11.20.2 Exceptions: (1) If a base runner is advancing to home plate and there are fewer than two outs, the base runner, instead of the batter, is out."

USA rulebook is difficult to navigate and I can't find anything one way or the other. I don't have NFHS.

 

Apologies.  I am a USA softball guy mostly, so I was referring to the USA rules.  7.6 "The batter is out" 7.6.R "When hindering the catcher from catching or throwing the ball by stepping out of the batter’s box.".  Effect - The ball is dead.  The batter is out.  Each runner must return to the last base touched at the time of the interference.

I believe USSSA treats this the same way. I don't call high school because my work schedule doesn't allow me to take enough games to make the registration worth it, so I don't have access to those rules.

I do see the NCAA exception in 11.20, so good call out there (pun intended).

[Velho]

21 hours ago, jimurrayalterego said:

22 hours ago, Velho said:

What's the distinction you're using to invoke 6.01(b) vs 5.09(b)(8) / 6.01(a)(3)?

I use "at home base" as the location where a batter would be guilty of BI. Others argue that any hindrance of "a play at home base" would be BI. 

Invoking 6.01(b) on this play with two outs, who do you grab as the out?

[Velho]

Ms. Teschmacher, please ring up @johnnyg08. He's conspicuously silent. I'd like to hear his opinion.

[Velho]

13 hours ago, BigBlue4u said:

Looks like I am in the minority here.  But I've got nothing.  First, who created the problem?  Second, the batter made a legitimate effort to get out of the way of a play at the plate. Third, even if the batter was in the way of the pitcher, it is unlikely a play could have been made on the runner. Bottom line, I'm not going to pull one out of my you know what to bail out a miscue by the offense. defense

I follow the line of thought.

What rulebook language are you using to explain the call to the defense?

[BigBlue4u]

3 hours ago, Velho said:

I follow the line of thought.

What rulebook language are you using to explain the call to the defense?

Good catch!  MLB rule 6.01 (a) (3) states:  Before two are out and a runner on third base, the batter hinders a fielder in making a play at home base; the runner is out.  So, we have a judgment call.  Was the pitcher making a play at home base? (in this case proximity being the issue) Yes= interference and an out.  No= nothing.