2 for fighting

[Mudisfun]

Freshman level game. R1/R2 and I am working solo. As I turned towards the plate to sweep it, I hear a commotion coming from the 2nd base area, turn around and see R2 and the SS finishing a shove and squaring up. Immediately I'm running towards the scuffle, shouting to knock it off, break it up, etc. Both HC's (3rd base coach) and HTHC (on the 3rd base side) come running out on to the field as well to break it up. 

Eject both players for engaging in a fight 3-3-1 p&q. Turning towards the plate, I see players from the VT out of the dugout, which a loud get back in there or you are all ejected culls the sheep and they all immediately get back inside (no one was running out on to the field, they had just exited the dugout).

I get the replacement player info from the VT (R2) and then head over to the HTHC to get the replacement for his SS when I then observe several adult males outside the fence on the home team side yelling at and attempting to engage/instigate with the VT side of the fence. Tell the HTHC to call an admin now, which he does. Spoke to the AD via phone who was off site, explained the situation and he quickly got someone from admin out to the field to quell the crowds. I may have also told them all that if they did not immediately stop the behavior that I would clear the stands and they would all be going to the parking lot.

By the time the EJ paperwork was done, there was an admin on site and we resumed the game with no further issues. 

Did I mention freshman level? Ugg.

 

[834k3r]

I think this is a perfect example of why big field games--regardless of ruleset, but especially FED--should be two-man crews. BU in C would have heard the trash talk between F6 and R2 and told them to knock it off--and I've done that very thing.

On the other hand, I thank you for posting this @Mudisfun--it's good to see how things can go south and how others have handled the situation.

[Jimurray]

20 minutes ago, Mudisfun said:

F

Eject both players for engaging in a fight 3-3-1 p&q. Turning towards the plate, I see players from the VT out of the dugout, which a loud get back in there or you are all ejected culls the sheep and they all immediately get back inside (no one was running out on to the field, they had just exited the dugout).

 

 

Did they: "p. leave their positions or bench area during a fight or physical confrontation"?

[urout17]

1 minute ago, Jimurray said:

Did they: "p. leave their positions or bench area during a fight or physical confrontation"?

My thoughts exactly.  Take numbers if they're outside the dugout and dump them all.  Probably not enough players to finish the game for either team.  If not, we're done.

[BLWizzRanger]

6 minutes ago, urout17 said:

My thoughts exactly.  Take numbers if they're outside the dugout and dump them all.  Probably not enough players to finish the game for either team.  If not, we're done.

OOOOORRRRRR, if easier, take all of the numbers of players left on the bench and DON'T eject them... YMMV.

[Mudisfun]

I took the opportunity to teach the freshmen players that they could be ejected for exiting the dugout as none of them had moved past a step or two. If they had not immediately complied, then yes, I would have dumped them all. The only coach was in the coaches box at 3rd, so there was no adult presence there to keep them wrangled either. Since none of them did anything further, I decided not to eject them.

 

 

[The Man in Blue]

8 hours ago, Mudisfun said:

Freshman level game. R1/R2 and I am working solo. As I turned towards the plate to sweep it, I hear a commotion coming from the 2nd base area, turn around and see R2 and the SS finishing a shove and squaring up. Immediately I'm running towards the scuffle, shouting to knock it off, break it up, etc. Both HC's (3rd base coach) and HTHC (on the 3rd base side) come running out on to the field as well to break it up. 

Eject both players for engaging in a fight 3-3-1 p&q. Turning towards the plate, I see players from the VT out of the dugout, which a loud get back in there or you are all ejected culls the sheep and they all immediately get back inside (no one was running out on to the field, they had just exited the dugout).

I get the replacement player info from the VT (R2) and then head over to the HTHC to get the replacement for his SS when I then observe several adult males outside the fence on the home team side yelling at and attempting to engage/instigate with the VT side of the fence. Tell the HTHC to call an admin now, which he does. Spoke to the AD via phone who was off site, explained the situation and he quickly got someone from admin out to the field to quell the crowds. I may have also told them all that if they did not immediately stop the behavior that I would clear the stands and they would all be going to the parking lot.

By the time the EJ paperwork was done, there was an admin on site and we resumed the game with no further issues. 

Did I mention freshman level? Ugg.

5 hours ago, Mudisfun said:

I took the opportunity to teach the freshmen players that they could be ejected for exiting the dugout as none of them had moved past a step or two. If they had not immediately complied, then yes, I would have dumped them all. The only coach was in the coaches box at 3rd, so there was no adult presence there to keep them wrangled either. Since none of them did anything further, I decided not to eject them.

 

I'm about to have an aneurism just reading all that.  I really don't even know where to begin because there is NOTHING right in any of this.  1 umpire.  1 coach for one of the teams.  No admin.  Freshmen.  This game should never have been played.

You did what you could with the players.  When the parents were involved, the direction should not have been "call an admin" but "coach, you ARE the game administrator, take care of it."

I know many of you don't agree with me, but we HAVE TO STOP ACCEPTING SOLO ASSIGNMENTS.  We have got to start holding schools accountable for having adequate personnel on site.  A single coach and no on site administrator is NOT acceptable.  

[The Man in Blue]

7 hours ago, urout17 said:

My thoughts exactly.  Take numbers if they're outside the dugout and dump them all.  Probably not enough players to finish the game for either team.  If not, we're done.

I'm generally going to side with @Mudisfun that this would normally seem more like a teaching moment.  Given the game circumstances and the total lack of appropriate adult supervision on site, I am with @urout17.

[JonnyCat]

1 hour ago, The Man in Blue said:

I know many of you don't agree with me, but we HAVE TO STOP ACCEPTING SOLO ASSIGNMENTS.

I agree with you wholeheartedly!

I NEVER accept solo games, paid or volunteer. Solo games are a big reason the shortage of umpires continues.

Our solution? Lets do more games with less umpires. Oh and still get SH*#ty pay.

[wolfe_man]

I agree with you two - but… what do you do when you’ve accepted a Varsity baseball assignment and then your partner gets pulled to work another game (softball)?  
 

Do you say you won’t work solo and make them cancel or honor your obligation?

I was solo tonight for just that reason.  I won’t take tournament assignments solo, but I don’t see how I can help but get stuck doing solo sometimes during HS baseball season.

[Richvee]

1 hour ago, JonnyCat said:

. Solo games are a big reason the shortage of umpires continues.

Are solo assignments the reason there’s an umpire shortage, or is the umpire shortage the reason for solo assignments? 

[StatsUmp]

48 minutes ago, wolfe_man said:

I agree with you two - but… what do you do when you’ve accepted a Varsity baseball assignment and then your partner gets pulled to work another game (softball)?  

No solo assignments is the ideal, and I'll be the first to admit working any level of HS baseball solo is grueling both physically and mentally. But sometimes it's unavoidable. Last year, a doubleheader's start time changed because the venue changed to one with another game being played beforehand. My partner was now unable to work because of the new starting time so I had to work solo. Similarly, I have been pulled to fill another opening (leaving a partner possibly solo) or had my partner pulled and leaving me solo.

 

As for @Mudisfun's OP, it sounds like he did all he reasonably could given the circumstances. About the only suggestion I have moving forward is asking pre-game who the site admin is. That way it's known upfront if it's the HTHC or someone else. Ninety-nine times out of 100, we don't need to involve a "game administrator." For the one time we do, though, it's better to know in advance than it is to take time figuring out who it is while trying to defuse a volatile situation simultaneously.

[The Man in Blue]

53 minutes ago, wolfe_man said:

I agree with you two - but… what do you do when you’ve accepted a Varsity baseball assignment and then your partner gets pulled to work another game (softball)?  
 

Do you say you won’t work solo and make them cancel or honor your obligation?

I was solo tonight for just that reason.  I won’t take tournament assignments solo, but I don’t see how I can help but get stuck doing solo sometimes during HS baseball season.

As we said, do not accept solo assignments.  Yes, there are times when an emergency happens, I get that.

I hate to say it, @wolfe_man, but yes, I would say that I am not working the game solo in that situation.  I hope that softball was pretty important.

I believe I told the story on here about having a partner go down in a tournament last year (walked behind the catcher in warmups and took one to the temple).  After the ambulance left and I strapped my gear on, I had a bad-situation play, upset players, a malicious contact, and almost a brawl.  As I walked off, the site director said, "What do you think?  20 minutes to start the championship game?"  I asked who my partner's replacement was.  "You got this," he said.

Me: "Did you just see what happened?  My partner was taken off in an ambulance.  We almost had benches clearing.  Who has my back?  Who is watching out for me if I get hurt or have an issue?"

SD: "But it's the championship game."

Me: "Yes, and?"

We went back and forth a little as I took my gear off.  He finally realized that he either needed to find an umpire to work with me or an umpire to replace me.  Either way, he needed to find an umpire from one of the other sites.

It sucks if games have to be canceled, but that is neither our fault nor our problem.

[SeeingEyeDog]

1 hour ago, wolfe_man said:

I agree with you two - but… what do you do when you’ve accepted a Varsity baseball assignment and then your partner gets pulled to work another game (softball)?  
 

Do you say you won’t work solo and make them cancel or honor your obligation?

I was solo tonight for just that reason.  I won’t take tournament assignments solo, but I don’t see how I can help but get stuck doing solo sometimes during HS baseball season.

I guess it's all about what an umpire can negotiate with those who have a direct impact on their schedule...

There are guys in my association who have told the assigners that they will not work solo. Admittedly, I'm not sure what they do if they have a partner who cancels late...

~Dawg

[The Man in Blue]

2 minutes ago, StatsUmp said:

No solo assignments is the ideal, and I'll be the first to admit working any level of HS baseball solo is grueling both physically and mentally. But sometimes it's unavoidable. Last year, a doubleheader's start time changed because the venue changed to one with another game being played beforehand. My partner was now unable to work because of the new starting time so I had to work solo. Similarly, I have been pulled to fill another opening (leaving a partner possibly solo) or had my partner pulled and leaving me solo.

 

As for @Mudisfun's OP, it sounds like he did all he reasonably could given the circumstances. About the only suggestion I have moving forward is asking pre-game who the site admin is. That way it's known upfront if it's the HTHC or someone else. Ninety-nine times out of 100, we don't need to involve a "game administrator." For the one time we do, though, it's better to know in advance than it is to take time figuring out who it is while trying to defuse a volatile situation simultaneously.

 

If the location changes, then it is no longer what you contracted.

If the start time changes, then it is no longer what you contracted .

If you no longer have a partner, then it is no longer what you contracted.

 

I've lost three games this year because the venue or time changed and I was no longer able or willing to do it.  It happens.

[The Man in Blue]

3 minutes ago, SeeingEyeDog said:

I guess it's all about what an umpire can negotiate with those who have a direct impact on their schedule...

There are guys in my association who have told the assigners that they will not work solo. Admittedly, I'm not sure what they do if they have a partner who cancels late...

~Dawg

Or the assignor lies and says there was a partner in the first place . . . 

Contracts.  Our contracts need to contain penalty clauses and out clauses.  Otherwise, they are just job assignment forms and we are not truly independent contractors.

[SeeingEyeDog]

10 minutes ago, The Man in Blue said:

Or the assignor lies and says there was a partner in the first place . . . 

Contracts.  Our contracts need to contain penalty clauses and out clauses.  Otherwise, they are just job assignment forms and we are not truly independent contractors.

We are absolutely copacetic here. This "independent contractor" nonsense needs to stop. We are employees that those who pay us use a legal loophole to re-status us. We permit what we promote...

~Dawg 

[Jimurray]

1 hour ago, SeeingEyeDog said:

We are absolutely copacetic here. This "independent contractor" nonsense needs to stop. We are employees that those who pay us use a legal loophole to re-status us. We permit what we promote...

~Dawg 

What would you gain by being an employee?

[JonnyCat]

1 hour ago, Richvee said:

Are solo assignments the reason there’s an umpire shortage, or is the umpire shortage the reason for solo assignments? 

It's a big reason why the shortage continues.

The shortage of umpires has been a known problem for many years, most of us could see the writing on the wall long ago. Umpires like myself are getting older, and replacements are not keeping up with demand.

To be sure, there are a number of reasons why people are not entering the field. No need to beat that horse again.

What have we done about it? The answer is virtually nothing. Has the pay increased? Has the working conditions improved? Is it getting any better? Or is it business as usual?

The only thing we've done is cover more games with fewer people. That has been the solution, have everyone work more games. The result? More solo games. Nothing has changed to improve the situation.

[MadMax]

30 minutes ago, Jimurray said:

What would you gain by being an employee?

Uniforms provided. 

Necessary equipment provided. 

Insurance provided. 

Certifications reimbursed. 

Healthcare provided. 

Performance reviews that actually have bearing. 

Assignments / Hours capped. 

Training tuition reimbursed. 

Established, documented system for how assignments are made, and why so-and-so – who is an equal employee – is getting assignments different / “better” than yours.

… do I keep going? 

[JonnyCat]

35 minutes ago, Jimurray said:

What would you gain by being an employee?

Workman's comp, for one.

Taxes for another. We won't have to pay the other half of FICA, like you do with self employment tax. Unless you've set yourself up as a corporation. Also, you're getting unemployment tax factored in.

You're also protected by your state's employee rules and regulations.

Could even have a collective bargaining agreement.

[Jimurray]

2 minutes ago, JonnyCat said:

Workman's comp, for one.

Taxes for another. We won't have to pay the other half of FICA, like you do with self employment tax. Unless you've set yourself up as a corporation. Also, you're getting unemployment tax factored in.

You're also protected by your state's employee rules and regulations.

Could even have a collective bargaining agreement.

Who would your employer be? I’m pretty sure TASO here in Texas would just fold and let UIl deal with it. So then you have miriad school districts employing umpires and assigning them which as an employee you cannot refuse. 

[JonnyCat]

6 minutes ago, Jimurray said:

Who would your employer be? I’m pretty sure TASO here in Texas would just fold and let UIl deal with it. So then you have miriad school districts employing umpires and assigning them which as an employee you cannot refuse. 

That's a good question. I guess individual associations would have to figure it out. More likely it would require a whole new system.

Associations could make it work with with contracts with Travel-ball and other private youth leagues. They would simply have to charge more to the client to fund their business operations.

HS and college would be more problematic. This would have to take a systemic change in the way contracts are handled. It would have to be the same way, schools would have to be charged accordingly to fund the the associations.

I've often said that the way associations function is archaic and idiotic. They rely on kickbacks to fund their operation costs. That is a lousy way of doing business. Associations need to act as legitimate businesses and collect enough money from their clients to fund their operations. Just like everyone else.

[tpatience]

I was/am apart of the same HS umpire association as @Mudisfun. Unfortunately, all freshman/JV games(besides one special league that assigns JV as two man, same league that assigns varsity as 3) are assigned as one man. So if you’re an up and comer as Kevin is in our association, he has to work these one man games or else he’d get way less games. Is it ideal? No. But that’s just the way it is 

[834k3r]

13 hours ago, wolfe_man said:

I agree with you two - but… what do you do when you’ve accepted a Varsity baseball assignment and then your partner gets pulled to work another game (softball)?  
 

Do you say you won’t work solo and make them cancel or honor your obligation?

I was solo tonight for just that reason.  I won’t take tournament assignments solo, but I don’t see how I can help but get stuck doing solo sometimes during HS baseball season.

I had a very similar situation just this week. I was on a two-man crew for a 14U travel ball game, and my partner got pulled to work a FED game. I told my assignor I don't want to work solo, and he understood and took the place of my original partner. In my mind, I signed up for the game, so I felt obligated to work the game regardless--but I was happy to have a partner.