How often do you get chirping from the stands?

[SCRookie]

I'm a 3rd year umpire and I try not to have rabbit ears for anything on the other side of the fence, but it makes me wonder if this is just a thing that happens often for all plate umpires, or if I am still just inexperienced enough that my strike zone is still in development and it's real.

Did 3 games on opening day this past weekend. Admittedly, I haven't really seen a pitch since October. Youth league, I had a slightly expanded strike zone given the age and general level of rust on these kids (and me) after winter.

Things went like 95% fine, and sure I had some pitches that were questionable (none that seemed like gross misses). But it seemed like there was at least one or two "ah, come on" or "that was low!" from the stands at each game. Not much at all, but it was there.

Coaches for all games were complementary, some even enthusiastically so (even the losing teams) on my performance and told me they loved the zone especially at this time of year. Was even told "Don't change a thing". I know I am FAR from perfect...I have a lot to learn, but I am also dubious to how honest these coaches are being with the kind words.

Most umpires I know don't like talking about their own imperfections and are hesitant to admit they miss stuff, so I am just putting it out there: how often do you get even a little chirping from stands? Every game? Most games? Never?

 

[kylehutson]

Youth league? Did it hit the ground before being caught? If not, it wasn't too low.

Youth leagues are the worst for having parents that expect their batters to have a postage stamp for the strike zone, and "nose-to-toes, chalk-to-chalk" for their pitchers. You can safely ignore those bozos.

[Velho]

5 minutes ago, SCRookie said:

But it seemed like there was at least one or two "ah, come on" or "that was low!" from the stands at each game.

Context matters a lot here. Was it a pitch you had no doubts on? Was it a comment from the dugout or stands? Was it a high pressure situation?

Often, later in the game or key situations people's hopes overcome their rationality. The comment can come from wanted a call.

Based on the above, discount it accordingly. We don't want rabbit ears but, as long as we can take the "feedback" without going in the tank, it's information to consider.

Saturday my BU had a banger out at 1B. Grandma let out a "that's terrible". It was close enough you couldn't legitimately debate one way or the other. She simply wanted her grandson to be safe. Unsure if she caught my death glare and subsequently laughing & shaking my head at her or not but that's as much as I let it in.

[SCRookie]

17 minutes ago, kylehutson said:

Youth league? Did it hit the ground before being caught? If not, it wasn't too low.

Youth leagues are the worst for having parents that expect their batters to have a postage stamp for the strike zone, and "nose-to-toes, chalk-to-chalk" for their pitchers. You can safely ignore those bozos.

Ha…thanks for the response. Absolutely not in the dirt before being caught!

[SCRookie]

12 minutes ago, Velho said:

Often, later in the game or key situations people's hopes overcome their rationality. The comment can come from wanted a call.

 

Funny you being this up, in all cases, it was late in each game that I heard it. Always from the stands and never the dugout. I did have one batter stand there and stare at me after I banged him out looking. Didn’t like that, but I let it go. 😂

[ArchAngel72]

If the fences are not talking to you when their kids are up to bat then you are calling too small a strike zone.

 

8-10 I go top of shoulders to bottoms of the knees and all the way to the opposite batters box line ( which in LL is an extra ball width) 8-10 you want those kids swinging at everything that they can reach.  No walk fests!

 

 10 -12 I bring it back down to what LL tells me to call, top of knees to armpits over a part of the plate.  Here I get complaints about my low strike calls that I see at the knee while its over the front edge of the plate.    By the time it gets to the catcher he can be digging it out of the dirt at his crotch but what I saw when it crossed the plate was it hit the top of his knee.. Sorry thats in the strike zone even though your standing a foot behind the plate at the back of the box.  Its not where you are standing its while its over the plate.

 

let em chirp... strikes = outs = innings

 

[wolfe_man]

Youth league? Swing the bat!

It was about year three that I started getting really good at ignoring those idiots morons parents in the stands.  It took me that long to figure out they'll never understand, let alone agree with, most of my calls - no matter if I'm right or wrong! 

You call your game and be willing to receive feedback from those that offer help - and understand how to give said feedback in a helpful and useful manner.  But if they're outside the fence, they don't exist, ignore them.

And bless you for doing these games, I won't touch anything below 15U anymore - because of the parents and daddy coaches.

[SeeingEyeDog]

@SCRookie, this is also why the fundamentals of umpiring will carry us through the chatter. How's your timing? Are you as consistent with it if it's a meatball down the middle as you are a ball on the edge? How's your judgement? Are you calling the zone consistently for both teams? How's your vocalizations? Are they clear statements of fact or do they have a question mark on the end that suggest you are guessing? Do you acknowledge the static outside the fences in any way? You shouldn't be, vocally or silently. Ignore it and get the next pitch. How many pitches can you string together correctly in a row?

I work HS and down and I get chirping whether it's the first scrimmage of the season or a 12U game in blistering August with the score 15-0 in the 2nd inning. I'm to the point now, I don't hear the words anymore...I am just aware of the "dissatisfaction". I am told eventually I will hear nothing.

Check with your league leadership and or your umpire association leadership to make sure you have a firm understanding of your approved game management protocols. Under FED rules now, the umpires can no longer address anything outside the fences. (I wasn't ever aware that was a thing to begin with...) In a HS game, if there is a fan causing problems, I tell the coach to take care of it. If the coach is unable or unwilling to take care of it, then I get the athletic director or whomever is there administering the field for the home team.

In non-FED games, it's all on the coach. Either they deal with the problem or the umpires are going home...again, check with your local resources so you know your operating procedures. Your safety and the safety of your crew and everyone on the field are always at the top of our list. If you don't feel safe, you and your crew should get off the field.

~Dawg

[Kais]

Sometimes, not just youth league. Went to an ASU game yesterday, about 8 or so umpires behind the screen who questioned the HP umpire on every close one that didn't go the way they wanted.  Finally, I just had to speak up. On an obvious ball, I called out "looked good from here, blue....45' away from the plate, with an impossible angle, 18' up in the stands."  😄  At least the other 8 stayed quiet the rest of the way. I think HP chuckled at that one.
 

[SCRookie]

23 minutes ago, SeeingEyeDog said:

@SCRookie, this is also why the fundamentals of umpiring will carry us through the chatter. How's your timing? Are you as consistent with it if it's a meatball down the middle as you are a ball on the edge? How's your judgement? Are you calling the zone consistently for both teams? How's your vocalizations? Are they clear statements of fact or do they have a question mark on the end that suggest you are guessing? Do you acknowledge the static outside the fences in any way? You shouldn't be, vocally or silently. Ignore it and get the next pitch. How many pitches can you string together correctly in a row?

All great advice, thank you. I am very loud and confident on every looking strike, and I practice very crisp, very sharp mechanics, at least I like to think so. However, "I like to think so" is also how I feel about my consistency and judgement. I think this is a fundamental thing any good umpire is constantly striving to perfect. I focus on being consistent and fair, but I acknowledge that human error is likely to creep in occasionally.

Now, I took a video of the first inning...timing. That's where I visually and clearly need work. I'm quick on the draw for sure. That is a tough one, and I am glad you brought it up. 

I was on a very good roll up to about the 5th inning in the last game of the day. Felt like it was actually my best game. That's when the chirps started...was I tired after being out there all day? Was it because the losing team was down 8 runs? Probably a combo. I won't deny I probably missed a few, but it was literally a few. No more than I watch them miss on TV for six figures.

I have never once acknowledged anyone behind the fence during a game. I actually make a point to not even look at the people to avoid putting a single face in my mind. I look up over the stands or down at the ground when facing the fence. I don't even want to know who's there.

[Velho]

4 minutes ago, SCRookie said:

Now, I took a video of the first inning...timing. That's where I visually and clearly need work. I'm quick on the draw for sure. That is a tough one, and I am glad you brought it up. 

 

One tip an MiLB ump gave me that may help: roll your indicator before making your call. That extra beat helped slow me down to the point I no longer have to do it.

[SeeingEyeDog]

3 minutes ago, SCRookie said:

All great advice, thank you. I am very loud and confident on every looking strike, and I practice very crisp, very sharp mechanics, at least I like to think so. However, "I like to think so" is also how I feel about my consistency and judgement. I think this is a fundamental thing any good umpire is constantly striving to perfect. I focus on being consistent and fair, but I acknowledge that human error is likely to creep in occasionally.

Now, I took a video of the first inning...timing. That's where I visually and clearly need work. I'm quick on the draw for sure. That is a tough one, and I am glad you brought it up. 

I was on a very good roll up to about the 5th inning in the last game of the day. Felt like it was actually my best game. That's when the chirps started...was I tired after being out there all day? Was it because the losing team was down 8 runs? Probably a combo. I won't deny I probably missed a few, but it was literally a few. No more than I watch them miss on TV for six figures.

I have never once acknowledged anyone behind the fence during a game. I actually make a point to not even look at the people to avoid putting a single face in my mind. I look up over the stands or down at the ground when facing the fence. I don't even want to know who's there.

Mechanically and mentally, you are well on your way here. Timing is such a fickle thing that requires constant attention. The moment we take a pitch or a play off from focusing on good timing...it will leave us. Develop a silent mnemonic. Pitch comes in, it hits F2's mitt, stay down and say silently to yourself..."That is a (strike/ball)." Now, we move on to the actual call. If it's a ball...stay down and call ball. Then come up and relax for the next pitch. If it's a strike, stand up big and tall and call strike. When you start focusing on timing...you are going to feel slow and deliberate when you try to make changes. That's ok. That's your brain and muscles re-learning the timing. Try to identify times, plays, pitches and or situations that cause you to speed up your timing. And lastly, tell your partners in pre-game that you are working on your timing so, they know to give you that feedback post-game.

~Dawg

[SeeingEyeDog]

4 minutes ago, Velho said:

One tip an MiLB ump gave me that may help: roll your indicator before making your call. That extra beat helped slow me down to the point I no longer have to do it.

[insert Leonardo DiCaprio sitting in a theatre smoking a cigarette and clapping enthusiastically meme...]

~Dawg

[BLarson]

Some parents on teams (typically I do mostly travel select baseball) will ooh/ahh on every call against them...pitches thrown when on defense and pitches called when batting.   It's just what they do.

[SH0102]

If an umpire won’t share what they miss or could improve on, don’t take anything from that umpire.

I worked a series over the Summer with an umpire who had done the NCAA d1 college World Series TWICE and when we got done, he asked me “what do you got for me?”

I was befuddled, I said “____, you’re a 2x World Series umpire, I’m mostly a d2/d3 umpire” and he said “That’s bullSH*#, I can always do something better”.

The best umpires I know are always working on something, refining something, looking for nuances to make them even better.  One asked me once “what are you going to work on today?”

we can give you 20 things to improve on, focus on one at a time or you’ll be swimming in your head. As noted above, I’d start with timing.  When you think you’re fine, you’re fast, when you think you’re slow, you’re “normal”. Be even slower and be confident in each call.

And remember that umpires are the only ones in attendance who don’t have a vested interest in the outcome of each play.  Every close call, every close pitch, one team will like and the other won’t, so don’t listen.

If everyone in attendance all oooohs at the exact same time , it may have been too low, but a couple fans? Pffft, you’re screwing their kid out of that d1 scholarship , didn’t you know that?

[SCRookie]

8 minutes ago, SH0102 said:

we can give you 20 things to improve on, focus on one at a time or you’ll be swimming in your head. As noted above, I’d start with timing.  When you think you’re fine, you’re fast, when you think you’re slow, you’re “normal”. Be even slower and be confident in each call.

Thanks for the advice. Better timing behind the plate is my next mission. I've worked hard on slowing down calls on bases and I have gotten WAY better at that. Now to bring that to the dish...that feels like it's gonna be harder for me.

[Velho]

12 minutes ago, SCRookie said:

Now to bring that to the dish...that feels like it's gonna be harder for me.

Look at it this way: you get more chances more quickly to get it right

[johnnyg08]

As recent as last year...I got a "call it both ways" from the stands with one out in the top of the first. 

The crowd is emotionally invested and also has hardly a clue what's going on out there...I do my best to ignore them. 

With the crowd, even when you're right, you're wrong. 

Hang in there. Keep working hard. 

[834k3r]

21 hours ago, kylehutson said:

Youth league? Did it hit the ground before being caught? If not, it wasn't too low.

Youth leagues are the worst for having parents that expect their batters to have a postage stamp for the strike zone, and "nose-to-toes, chalk-to-chalk" for their pitchers. You can safely ignore those bozos.

I personally find the chirping amount is inversely proportional to the level of the game. The worst parents in my experience are 8-10 year old LL parents, and the quietest games (from a spectator perspective) are the FED games.

What is it about LL parents that make them think their kid is the next Ken Griffey Jr?

[Velho]

17 minutes ago, 834k3r said:

I personally find the chirping amount is inversely proportional to the level of the game. The worst parents in my experience are 8-10 year old LL parents, and the quietest games (from a spectator perspective) are the FED games.

I always find it interesting how different areas are different. Every varsity FED game I've ever been to has been a chirp-fest.

19 minutes ago, 834k3r said:

What is it about LL parents that make them think their kid is the next Ken Griffey Jr?

He was called "the kid" after all 😁

Seriously though, they don't stop and think. Help them slow down and reflect: 108baseballstories.com/parents

[Mussgrass]

One thing about proper timing on balls and strikes. I  often hear someone holler "nice pitch" or "good eye" before I make my call and signal. That is good as long as we don't allow that to influence what we call.

[wolfe_man]

13 minutes ago, Mussgrass said:

I  often hear someone holler "nice pitch" or "good eye" before I make my call and signal.

And it is usually the pitching coach. LOL

This is one of the reasons I had to learn to stop listening or taking offense when I heard it.  The coaches feel a constant need to try to encourage F1 to keep him from falling apart when he isn't given free strike calls when he wants them. I've noted that F1's are getting rattled easier than they used to, and I blame society with it's 'everyone gets a trophy' mentality.  If you don't give these kids every close pitch, in their mind, then they fall apart and get wild quickly.

You have to learn to just call your game and ignore the comments (unless they're definitely directed at you and argumentative).  It probably took me about three seasons of HS baseball before I realized that they're not questioning me every time a statement is made.  Some encourage the batter, some do the pitcher - and some are just saying what they've heard others say - and most have no clue at all where the pitch was, so don't let them get in your head and keep calling your game.

Remember, it's nothing until you call it, so don't rush.  Focus, keep your head still, see it all the way, call it in your head and then you're ready to call it out loud.  It is amazing how much proper timing and positioning will do to improve your game and then you'll normally hear less as a result, but no guarantees.

But don't let them live in your head, forget what you can and ignore what you can - but if it crosses a line (coach, not fan) you need to address it and stop it using the tools you're given (Identify - Acknowledge - Warn - Restrict - Eject).  If you try to be the nice guy or let them intimidate you, you're in for a long day.  Stop it early on and set the tone and it'll be an easier day for you and hopefully with less chirping you'll be able to zero in and call a great game.

Have fun out there!

 

[BLWizzRanger]

And it is usually the pitching coach. LOL
This is one of the reasons I had to learn to stop listening or taking offense when I heard it.  The coaches feel a constant need to try to encourage F1 to keep him from falling apart when he isn't given free strike calls when he wants them. I've noted that F1's are getting rattled easier than they used to, and I blame society with it's 'everyone gets a trophy' mentality.  If you don't give these kids every close pitch, in their mind, then they fall apart and get wild quickly.
 

Not directed at you, Wolfe_man.

But, isnt giving top of shoulders to the ankles sort of giving them a trophy? Boy oh boy wasnt U10 F1 good tonight, an All-Star!, even though the half the pitches were at the extremes of the strike zone?

I know Its damned if you do or damned if you dont at that age. But lets not forget that umpires contribute a little to that issue.

Sent from my SM-F721U1 using Tapatalk

[Richvee]

9 hours ago, Velho said:

I always find it interesting how different areas are different. Every varsity FED game I've ever been to has been a chirp-fest

I don’t work the little kids anymore, but I don’t find FED games too bad in general. The worst?  16-18 travel tournament parents. They want the MLB zone for their hitters, and an 8u zone for their pitchers. 

[The Man in Blue]

How often do they chirp?  Every game.

How often do I hear it?  Rarely.  It is a tough skill to learn.  I tell myself, "Focus on your game, not the yahoos.  If you are listening to the yahoo, you aren't focusing enough on the game."

Things that usually catch my ears are the funny stuff, not the stupid stuff.  Given my many professions and family status, I am really good at not paying any attention to what I am hearing until something odd sinks in.