Mussgrass

Is it a DH or an EH (extra hitter) with the 10 hitter lineup? What ruleset, also? Is there free substitution on defense with the 10 player batting? Either way I would think that the 7 spot in the lineup is an out unless there is a player to put in that hasn't been in the game yet. Sorry, I edited this because I realized this is in the HS tab.

Is the batter out for the passing if the ball is eventually caught? I was under the impression that we would not call the batter out for passing and instead should wait to determine if the catch is made. If he is out on the passing and it is a catch how does that affect the other runners? I realize it would take a very fast runner to actually pass R1 before a fly ball reaches an outfielder.

Did the center fielder catch the ball? It sounds like he did but you did not say specifically. If so, then the batter-runner is out on the catch, not for passing R1. If the ball was not caught then the BR is out if he passed R1. And if he is out on for passing the ball stays live and the other runners can advance and be played on by the defense.

Bit of a hijack, and I may have told this before. When I was coaching my sons 14U team under NFHS rules we had a kid who was listed on the lineup card as a sub, forget to report when he went up to bat. In this league the umpires don't keep lineups, I just gave a card to the other HC. This kid walked and the other team appealed batting out of order. The umpires upheld it. I went out and tried to explain that it was an unreported substitution, not BOO. My son knew that I knew the rule and told me to get myself thrown out, which I didn't do. My argument was to no avail. We ended up winning and afterwards I explained it to the other coach and he told me that he does not try to win that way, meaning cheaply. After the game I called the head of umpires for the league because I needed to call him about a scheduling matter. I took the time to explain the situation. He said that is not an out at any level of baseball. He was going to call the umpires about it. I told him I didn't want to get anyone in trouble. He said that the umpires should know that rule.

I umpire in a 12U house league with 60' bases, no stealing. I know that the standard wisdom is to be in C position (outside) with all runner combinations other than bases empty or R1. It seems like in C it is very easy to get straight lined on a play to 1B. Does it make sense to be in B in certain runner and out combinations? Thoughts

I will take my shot at this. I would say that there is no appeal to rule on because the ball was not caught. As you indicated R2 was out on the force at 3B. R1 is out because of being forced out at 2B when F6 tagged the base. That should probably be accompanied by a point at R1 while signaling the out. If the defense figures it out they may be able to complete the triple play if the BR has not touched 1B. It may take a lengthy explanation to both managers so they understand what happened.

And keep in mind that F6 could be at 2nd base to receive a throw from F4 if he misses the tag on the runner.

No run can score when the 3rd out is a force out. It doesn't matter that R3 crossed the plate before the out occurred. It is still a force because no one behind the runner was put out to remove the force, and because the forced runner had not reached the base he was forced to.

But the point is, what does it matter? F3 has the ball so all he needs to do is step on 1B for the putout. Don't chase the runner back to home like the Pirates did last season.

It doesn't matter which runner physically passes the other. Even if the lead runner retreats back past the trailing runner, the trailing runner is the one that is out.

Also, as Stk004 mentioned the runner is only a step away from first when he gets hit. He is allowed to be where he was, no RLI in my judgement.

Back in my coaching days one of my batters did get called for interference for ducking on a throw to third. I guess it comes down to umpire judgement.

I would take the definition of a legal slide to be further defining what is legal/illegal contact or what is interference or not. Perhaps, if the fielder makes a tag attempt being within reach of the base is a reference point to how far the runner may have moved to avoid a tag. It doesn't sound like the fielder made a tag attempt in this sitch.

Sounds like the batter gets a triple and advances to home on an E whoever threw the ball.

I guess my thinking is that if he had kept on veering in his path to the plate that would be INT more than veering once. Maybe because that would be more likely to be interfering with the throw, as opposed to simply running in a spot that makes it more difficult to make the throw. Keep in mind, this is totally different by rule than RLI. In this case there is no runner's lane that he must be in.

Simply running in a spot which makes the throw more difficult is apparently not interference. Does anyone have any ideas what would make it INT? I am sure if R3 had flailed his arms around or suddenly veered towards foul territory it would then be INT.

The umpire did not give the foul tip signal in the video clip. He may have after it cut off. Should he not signal foul tip and then out?

In the house league I umpire in the runners can lead off once the ball leaves the pitcher's hand. They can only steal if the defense makes a play on them. The penalty for leaving early is an out based on umpire judgement on if they were safe because they left early. I always understood on the small diamond that the base ump is outside the diamond when the ball is in the infield and then inside when the ball goes to the outfield.

If I am seeing it right, the catcher in the Rockies Padres video had to reach further into foul territory to actually make the catch. That would say to me that his initial movement toward foul ground was justified as moving toward the throw. It could also mean he should have set up more in foul ground which might have given the runner access to the plate towards fair ground.

If the defense properly appeals the runner leaving 3rd early he will be called out on for an apparent 4th out, which will negate the run scoring. If the defense does not appeal then the run counts. One more thing, different rule sets may specify the time limit for the appeal to take place. In OBR the defense has until the last fielder leaves fair territory. Other codes may be different. There is video in the Close Call Sports section of this forum from a few weeks ago showing this very occurrence.

When F5 steps on third base he still has the tag on R2, who was on the base. That, to me, is still part of the appeal on R2. If F5 even looks toward home and points there while stepping on third base it probably is clear enough of an appeal on R3. The amazing thing in all of this is that nobody got ejected.

I hope I am not hijacking this thread, but here goes. If there is a live action appeal (of course, not on a home run hit out) and the defense throws the ball out of play they CAN still appeal the infraction once the ball is made live if the baserunner has not corrected it. Am I correct?

The 3rd base coach knew the rules, for sure, and recognized what the umpire who called the OBS was calling and signaling. The only thing he had to lose was if they only were placing the runner at 3rd then the out at home would stand. Maybe that was communicated during the action, as well.

I was listening to the game on the radio. The announcers said that OBS/INT are not reviewable. So that answers that. As a Phillies fan I am not sure the umpires got it right. Not sure they got it wrong. That is a hard call to make at full speed with no benefit of replay.

It's similar to batting out of order. The batter who is supposed to have batted is the one called out if it is appealed properly. Not the batter who took jumped into someone else's spot. It doesn't seem fair, but that's how the rule is written.